You'll hear CEOs talk about how it enables the "Internet of Things", which is nerd-speak for replacing truckers and factory workers with robots, or turning your toaster into a surveillance tool.
5G bad
Edit: I have since been informed that opposing labor is good and progressive if I get faster internet speeds. Huh.
Uhh no, IoT isn't about replacing factory workers with robots, that's already happening for years now and you definitely don't need super fast Internet to achieve that (and even if you did, factories wouldn't be waiting for mobile 5g to do that). IoT is a dumbass hype machine that I've been hearing about for like 10 years now, it's basically expanded Google Home. Just completely unnecessary fluff. But there isn't really anything about current technology and especially Internet connection that prevents it from being possible. In fact, it IS already possible and it is already happening, it just hasn't taken off yet because of the price tag and because it is fucking pointless. When they say "oh, 5g is gonna permit us to do IoT!!!" it doesn't really mean anything, they're just spouting nonsense because they've made IoT sound like some futuristic technology that is totally gonna radically change everything when in fact it is just pointless gadgets that we already make, but, like, broader, so it's just a buzzword to make people excited. In reality all 5g is is just... Something that allows you to download vids a bit faster. And it's not even as fast as they pretend it is.
Look, my last remnants of hope are put in skynet nuking the white house, so don't come here with your facts to tell me that possibility is just a marketing scheme.
The process of automating trucking hitting road-blocks right now because the mass communication between automated vehicles is a necessary component to automation. Industry leaders understand this fact. [1][2].
The Department of Transportation has identified 5G has a necessary component to the automation of trucking in the US [3].
Every single business journal and newspaper has been salivating over the fully automated factories China & South Korea is developing right now, which required 5G [4][5][6][7].
Don't spout nonsense. "Oh, haha you just download things faster lol" Eat shit, this will be a huge blow to organized labor.
What you are describing isn't the "Internet of Things". At least it isn't what they market as the internet of things. Trucking automation is a much different subject from robots in manufacturing, or dumbass internet of things.
Eat shit, this will be a huge blow to organized labor.
You're just doing 21st century ludditism now. It's never worked and it never will, especially now.
robots in manufacturing are already “enabled” and used very, very widely.
Not nearly to the degree that exists in 5G enabled
it is basically struggle against the inevitable
This is not true. There is tangible proof of workers struggling against automation. Workers should continue to struggle against automation until we have a socialist state.
Not nearly to the degree that exists in 5G enabled
Robots? In manufacturing? For most tasks they don't really even need any internet.
This is not true. There is tangible proof of workers struggling against automation. Workers should continue to struggle against automation until we have a socialist state.
That some groups of workers struggle against automation doesn't mean it's not inevitable. What always happens in the best case is that they convince some board to block it for a few years and then when that's done, then the change happens anyways. It just stalls the transition, it doesn't block it.
Robots? In manufacturing? For most tasks they don’t really even need any internet.
The communication between robots does require a network.
What always happens in the best case is that they convince some board to block it for a few years and then when that’s done, then the change happens anyways.
This is the case for any reform under capitalism. The whole fucking point of organizing to win reforms under capitalism to demonstrate to workers we represent them.
Automation is good and we should respond to it by acknowledging most people don't need to work, and the remaining work can be divided into smaller pieces done by more people
In order for automated fleets to become a feature on our roads, onboard safety software will need to be able to receive uninterrupted data from sensors which provide real-time analysis of road conditions and behavior of other drivers. The advent of 5G could usher in minimized latency and constant connectivity. Not only will onboard safety systems receive uninterrupted data, but autonomous fleets will be connected to other vehicles on the road. With the adoption of 5G, vehicle-to-vehicle (V2V) communication becomes a real possibility. Each vehicle on the road would share data on speeds, traffic and routes, essentially making every autonomous truck in the fleet aware of its own surroundings.
Can you please read the articles I posted. It's literally freight capitalists describing their limitations.
Yeah, absolutely. Capital has become increasingly less reliant on labor in the Global North. That's why Walmart can shut down any shop that unionizes. That's why the UK ended its mining operations to break the power of the miners' union.
The struggle against automation is really important. Especially in regards to trucking. The US is a consumer economy, where commodities for the Global South are sold for profit. Trucking is one of the few places where labor has power. Trucks are needed to distribute commodities across the country. Labor in the US is even weaker once that is automated.
That’s why Walmart can shut down any shop that unionizes.
That's not why. The shitty political climate and lack of participation is why.
Struggle against automation is a ridiculous concept that people have been trying since the 19th century and it's never ever worked nor is it ever going to.
Struggle against automation is a ridiculous concept that people have been trying since the 19th century
The ATU in my city successfully delayed the deployment of automated buses another two years. The transit company has been pushing for limited deployment of automated buses, and the union has been fighting it. The struggle against automation is the struggle for workers.
"Struggle against capitalism is a ridiculous concept that people have been trying since the 19th century and it’s never ever worked nor is it ever going to."
Just admit this is what you meant. Admit you are anti-labor, and fuck off.
Well under the current system it's just capitalism advancing and horrible, I don't disagree. I'm saying we should push for changing the system. Increasing automation should mean we demand lowered expectations of work and distribute the remaining work more evenly without cratering wages.
and it's also progress in the sense that it's inevitable under capitalism.
Increasing automation should mean we demand lowered expectations of work and distribute the remaining work more evenly without cratering wages.
Sure. That is not what it means under capitalism. It means unemployment. Unless you are offering a concrete plan to overthrow capitalism, you should support workers' struggles against automation.
it’s also progress in the sense that it’s inevitable under capitalism
So is poverty, climate change, war, etc. I would not call those things "progress."
Is that what you think I said? Why is this about your mom suddenly? It absolutely does suck that people will lose their jobs. But in the grand scheme of things, it is the most inevitable thing in the history of inevitable things. Any victory made is a temporary, short term one. AND IT'S GOOD THAT PEOPLE MAKE TEMPORARY VICTORIES, but it isn't something you can strive for on a large scale.
There is no contradiction. Something can be good on a small scale level while being completely pointless on a grand scheme of things. It's almost always much more helpful to push for better wages and compensation etc rather than trying to block something impossible to block.
Something can be good on a small scale level while being completely pointless on a grand scheme of things
What the hell does this mean?
You can say the same about any reform workers win: better wages, reduced hours, better working conditions. All of this is "completely pointless" if you consider that the logic of Capital necessitates the exploitation of labor and the expansion of profit.
The whole fucking point is to fight for workers - be that through opposing automation, securing better wages, better working conditions - and work to overthrow the logic of Capital.
If you are going to be like "from my theoretical understanding of the world, this all pointless" fuck off. You don't actually understand labor organizing or socialism.
It means that a strategy that is wrong can still provide some temporary benefit to people, even if it's wrong in a grand scale. Securing better working conditions, wages, benefits etc can be much more permanent than something that's just running at a wall after a little while.
You sound like someone who has never been involved in a labor struggle. Securing better working conditions, wages, benefits are no more or less permanent than delaying automation.
You sound like someone who has never been involved in a labor struggle.
Piss off dude, you know nothing about me.
Securing better working conditions, wages, benefits are no more or less permanent than delaying automation.
They are though. Because when you secure a raise, then next time they try to bring it down, you're already starting from a better point, whereas with automation it's just complete defeat when it inevitably turns around.
Overall my issue isn't with certain unions trying to fight against it temporarily, as I explained that can be good. My issue is with presenting it as an overall direction that people should follow rather than just something unions in particular industries can temporarily use to gain some benefits for their workers.
when you secure a raise, then next time they try to bring it down, you’re already starting from a better point
When you secure a wage, inflation erases those gains by the time the next contract is being negotiated.
Overall my issue isn’t with certain unions trying to fight against it temporarily, as I explained that can be good. My issue is with presenting it as an overall direction that people should follow
Why should people who consider themselves friends of labor stay silent on the primary issue majors unions (ATU, Teamsters, etc.) are fighting for? That makes absolutely zero sense.
I'm going to support teachers unions demanding smaller class sizes. I'm going to support truckers unions fighting against automation.
Why should people who consider themselves friends of labor stay silent on the primary issue majors unions (ATU, Teamsters, etc.) are fighting for? That makes absolutely zero sense.
That's the primary issue US unions are fighting for???
Department of Transportation and industry leaders are projecting that the busing & trucking industries can be fully automated by the early 2030's.
The struggle against automation is existential to unions in these industries.
Local contract negotiations only bring up automation when it is forced onto them. Negotiations are still mostly bread and butter. The national unions are focusing primarily on automation right now as a political project, since it is their biggest threat.
deleted by creator
Sadly it just give you slightly faster internet
It gives incredibly fast internet.
You'll hear CEOs talk about how it enables the "Internet of Things", which is nerd-speak for replacing truckers and factory workers with robots, or turning your toaster into a surveillance tool.
5G bad
Edit: I have since been informed that opposing labor is good and progressive if I get faster internet speeds. Huh.
Uhh no, IoT isn't about replacing factory workers with robots, that's already happening for years now and you definitely don't need super fast Internet to achieve that (and even if you did, factories wouldn't be waiting for mobile 5g to do that). IoT is a dumbass hype machine that I've been hearing about for like 10 years now, it's basically expanded Google Home. Just completely unnecessary fluff. But there isn't really anything about current technology and especially Internet connection that prevents it from being possible. In fact, it IS already possible and it is already happening, it just hasn't taken off yet because of the price tag and because it is fucking pointless. When they say "oh, 5g is gonna permit us to do IoT!!!" it doesn't really mean anything, they're just spouting nonsense because they've made IoT sound like some futuristic technology that is totally gonna radically change everything when in fact it is just pointless gadgets that we already make, but, like, broader, so it's just a buzzword to make people excited. In reality all 5g is is just... Something that allows you to download vids a bit faster. And it's not even as fast as they pretend it is.
Look, my last remnants of hope are put in skynet nuking the white house, so don't come here with your facts to tell me that possibility is just a marketing scheme.
The process of automating trucking hitting road-blocks right now because the mass communication between automated vehicles is a necessary component to automation. Industry leaders understand this fact. [1] [2].
The Department of Transportation has identified 5G has a necessary component to the automation of trucking in the US [3].
Every single business journal and newspaper has been salivating over the fully automated factories China & South Korea is developing right now, which required 5G [4] [5] [6] [7].
Don't spout nonsense. "Oh, haha you just download things faster lol" Eat shit, this will be a huge blow to organized labor.
What you are describing isn't the "Internet of Things". At least it isn't what they market as the internet of things. Trucking automation is a much different subject from robots in manufacturing, or dumbass internet of things.
You're just doing 21st century ludditism now. It's never worked and it never will, especially now.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Not nearly to the degree that exists in 5G enabled
This is not true. There is tangible proof of workers struggling against automation. Workers should continue to struggle against automation until we have a socialist state.
Robots? In manufacturing? For most tasks they don't really even need any internet.
That some groups of workers struggle against automation doesn't mean it's not inevitable. What always happens in the best case is that they convince some board to block it for a few years and then when that's done, then the change happens anyways. It just stalls the transition, it doesn't block it.
The communication between robots does require a network.
This is the case for any reform under capitalism. The whole fucking point of organizing to win reforms under capitalism to demonstrate to workers we represent them.
But that's not even strictly necessary for most robots in manufacturing.
That much I can agree with.
It is necessary for fully automated factories.
deleted by creator
I am once again asking you to read.
Automation is good and we should respond to it by acknowledging most people don't need to work, and the remaining work can be divided into smaller pieces done by more people
Cool, so we just ask the owners of Capital very very nicely to share.
Okay, you keep fighting. Keep fighting the same battle again and again knowing that they can just keep attacking and you can only lose once.
You are talking about someone's employment and their union.
"Keep fighting for a wage and a union, you'll lose eventually 🤗 " very cool take, I love supporting labor.
deleted by creator
Can you please read the articles I posted. It's literally freight capitalists describing their limitations.
deleted by creator
Yeah, absolutely. Capital has become increasingly less reliant on labor in the Global North. That's why Walmart can shut down any shop that unionizes. That's why the UK ended its mining operations to break the power of the miners' union.
The struggle against automation is really important. Especially in regards to trucking. The US is a consumer economy, where commodities for the Global South are sold for profit. Trucking is one of the few places where labor has power. Trucks are needed to distribute commodities across the country. Labor in the US is even weaker once that is automated.
That's not why. The shitty political climate and lack of participation is why.
Struggle against automation is a ridiculous concept that people have been trying since the 19th century and it's never ever worked nor is it ever going to.
God, you are incredibly fucking stupid lol
The ATU in my city successfully delayed the deployment of automated buses another two years. The transit company has been pushing for limited deployment of automated buses, and the union has been fighting it. The struggle against automation is the struggle for workers.
"Struggle against capitalism is a ridiculous concept that people have been trying since the 19th century and it’s never ever worked nor is it ever going to."
Just admit this is what you meant. Admit you are anti-labor, and fuck off.
It's a losing struggle. automation is progress and you can't fight it for forever.
I'm not saying you're wrong to try I'm saying that strategically we should acknowledge automation will come and we should act accordingly.
What do you mean by this? How is it progressive to throw millions of people out of work?
Well under the current system it's just capitalism advancing and horrible, I don't disagree. I'm saying we should push for changing the system. Increasing automation should mean we demand lowered expectations of work and distribute the remaining work more evenly without cratering wages.
and it's also progress in the sense that it's inevitable under capitalism.
Sure. That is not what it means under capitalism. It means unemployment. Unless you are offering a concrete plan to overthrow capitalism, you should support workers' struggles against automation.
So is poverty, climate change, war, etc. I would not call those things "progress."
deleted by creator
invented technology is going to be used though.
Oh really? Wow. You pushed back labor armageddon two years lmao. Good job.
Yeah, anti-labor just like, you know, Marx, famously anti labor idiot.
Removed by mod
Is that what you think I said? Why is this about your mom suddenly? It absolutely does suck that people will lose their jobs. But in the grand scheme of things, it is the most inevitable thing in the history of inevitable things. Any victory made is a temporary, short term one. AND IT'S GOOD THAT PEOPLE MAKE TEMPORARY VICTORIES, but it isn't something you can strive for on a large scale.
Removed by mod
There is no contradiction. Something can be good on a small scale level while being completely pointless on a grand scheme of things. It's almost always much more helpful to push for better wages and compensation etc rather than trying to block something impossible to block.
What the hell does this mean?
You can say the same about any reform workers win: better wages, reduced hours, better working conditions. All of this is "completely pointless" if you consider that the logic of Capital necessitates the exploitation of labor and the expansion of profit.
The whole fucking point is to fight for workers - be that through opposing automation, securing better wages, better working conditions - and work to overthrow the logic of Capital.
If you are going to be like "from my theoretical understanding of the world, this all pointless" fuck off. You don't actually understand labor organizing or socialism.
It means that a strategy that is wrong can still provide some temporary benefit to people, even if it's wrong in a grand scale. Securing better working conditions, wages, benefits etc can be much more permanent than something that's just running at a wall after a little while.
You sound like someone who has never been involved in a labor struggle. Securing better working conditions, wages, benefits are no more or less permanent than delaying automation.
Piss off dude, you know nothing about me.
They are though. Because when you secure a raise, then next time they try to bring it down, you're already starting from a better point, whereas with automation it's just complete defeat when it inevitably turns around.
Overall my issue isn't with certain unions trying to fight against it temporarily, as I explained that can be good. My issue is with presenting it as an overall direction that people should follow rather than just something unions in particular industries can temporarily use to gain some benefits for their workers.
When you secure a wage, inflation erases those gains by the time the next contract is being negotiated.
Why should people who consider themselves friends of labor stay silent on the primary issue majors unions (ATU, Teamsters, etc.) are fighting for? That makes absolutely zero sense.
I'm going to support teachers unions demanding smaller class sizes. I'm going to support truckers unions fighting against automation.
That's the primary issue US unions are fighting for???
Department of Transportation and industry leaders are projecting that the busing & trucking industries can be fully automated by the early 2030's.
The struggle against automation is existential to unions in these industries.
Local contract negotiations only bring up automation when it is forced onto them. Negotiations are still mostly bread and butter. The national unions are focusing primarily on automation right now as a political project, since it is their biggest threat.