https://www.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/comments/kfpqq6/if_a_cop_can_kill_you_for_having_a_gun_you_dont/
This is the only way I've ever been able to talk to libertarians. They are so caught up in the hypothetical rights you have because of imaginary laws they fail to see the reality of your lack of rights.
It's why, as deluded as they can be, I actually want to talk to libertarians. They are disillusioned with the system and haven't slipped into fash territory.
haven’t slipped into fash territory.
[X] Doubt
At least when it comes to the actual propagandists of (right) libertarianism.Self-aware wolves, the lot of them. The teenagers and man-children who just never grew out of it? Some are salvageable, if their material conditions permit it.
/r/Libertarian has gone through a few cycles of binge and purge since the halycon days of Ron Paul's '08 run.
The modern incarnation is more hostile to the GOP than I've ever seen it, and more flirtatious with leftism than its mods would care to admit.
Aside from all that, it's still an excellent place to bang heads for no other reason than its mod policy has (almost) always been incredibly loose. You'll get banned in every sub - from /r/neoliberal to /r/conservative to /r/shitliberalssay - for voicing half of what you've got a mind to on the Libertarian sub.
I haven't been banned from neoliberal yet but I mostly just go there to explain how smooth-brained their takes on geopolitics are, or if I have, like, a specific Marx quote that 100% owns whatever someone is suggesting because that's hilarious to do
The key is to choose a flair, it makes them think you're one of them
One of my oldest friends was starting to get into it, but I pulled him out as soon as I mentioned that the left like guns too. But we were the teenagers then
There are different kinds of libertarians. The weird economic nerds in the Milton Friedman style who are just hyper-liberals and the CHUDs who think it sounds cooler than "Republican" are unreachable, but you can usually find common ground with the weirdo theory crank guys, because they're the disenfranchised ones you're thinking of - the easiest way to find them is to ask how they feel about voting Republican.
The weird economic nerds in the Milton Friedman style who are just hyper-liberals
You can reach them but you need to start with MMT or something.
I don't think so. Those people have wrapped their identity up in being part of the system, you can't just own someone with facts and logic into being a communist. You might get them to realize that a singular facet of their understanding, or even multiple, are wrong, but you won't change what's at the core of someone like that.
But what if I own them really hardcore epic gamer style? Didn't think of that, I bet
No you can't facts and logic them. I guess my point was that you have to find an approach that they find agreeable or even interesting. Capital for all its strength will not resonate with most Econ nerds.
really you need to speak their language (supply and demand, invisible market forces, inalienable rights,
shitting your pants,etcetera), you hook them in with the allure of FACTS AND LOGIC and then keep them their with a friendly discussion (and maybe some contemporary examples such as PS5 piracy - most of them are 15 year olds after all; they'll start to properly listen when you bring up an example that affects them). I think what will really do it though is showing some short extract of Marx which is incredibly relevant to some current event and say "OOoooOOoOoOh! SpoOoky Marx telling the future with his economic model. OoooOOOoooh!"Yeah I agree, though I think Marx's ideas are more accessible than his writing and there are better places to start with people who grew up in McCarthyland.
Modern Monetary Theory. Basically a way of looking at our current floating currency money as something created and spent into existence by a sovereign state, and then deleted through taxation. Taxes don't fund spending, they just help control inflation (and curb inequality if you want).
a lot of them have considerable overlap with fash. the exception is like hippie principled people who are libertarian because they aren't materialists, class conscious or both.
What is the Libertarian answer to this?
My bet is on something like: "They are violating the NAP, they can't do that. Hello, officer?" :angery:
Inevitably:
"I have devised a tactic you should employ to avoid death. First, always.."
"Quickly and brusquely inform the officer of the Non-Aggression Principle and its logical irrefutability"
Most of the time the people getting shot are black people who they don't care about/actively hate.
Been yelling that on the sub for ages.
Cool to see its finally sinking in.
Just shout "Philando Castile" at any so-called pro-2nd blue lives matter asshole.
they're the False Consciousness lads, so if giving them an inch can bring some over here I'm fine with it
Why did clicking this link give me hope for right libertarians … or was it just some of our own in there lol
It's one of the better politics-related threads I've seen on reddit in quite a while.
There are a fair amount of libertarian socialists (with all the pluses and minuses that entails) there. And someone is upvoting them pretty consistently.
"nearly identical politics to socialists except ... they worship capitalism" that's a pretty big except lol
almost like, if there are armed thugs who can EVER have permission to kill you, YOU'RE NOT FUCKING FREE. huh. weird.
