One of my high school students came in ranting/raving about Biden allowing trans people to participate in the sports event of the gender they identify as (rural Iowa hellworld). I wanted to challenge him in a way that would make him think about it but I have to admit I'm not educated in the topic. Any tips on handling this?
Thanks in advance!
This "debate" is usually framed in the context of "biological advantage" because it is true that top male athletes have an advantage over top female athletes so they believe that trans women (who are assigned male at birth) will have an advantage over cis women. However most top competitive sports (like the Olympics) have rules requiring the trans person to be on hrt for some time. Trans women who have been on hrt for a few years really have no biological advantage over cis women. Now some might resort to arguing that hrt does nothing to bone length (which is mostly true for trans women who started hrt after puberty) but then you don't see them complaining that a cis person is being unfair because they were born with longer legs or anything like that. Furthermore the concern trolls seem to only come out whenever a trans person wins any event and they forget the times that trans athletes finish in 4th, 5th, etc. so they seem to only think it's "fair" when a trans person loses.
You can also ask them to name a top female athlete. Chances are they will be a cis woman (or they can't do it because none of them give a shit about women's sports unless they can use it to hate trans people.) If trans women really were dominating then they should have disproportionate representation which is not the case.
Outside the top competitive events it gets really silly, like are you going to foam at the mouth because some local recreational league lets people of all genders participate? While it is true that top male athletes outperform top female athletes, there is a lot more variation in an "average" person so it's really dumb to assume that a trans woman always has a "biological" advantage over a cis woman.
At the end of the day, if you care about "biological advantage" so much, then you should be advocating for more resources for young trans people (like puberty blockers) so they never have to go through the wrong puberty to begin with (and suffer a lot less dysphoria) but these people who yell about biological advantage never cared about trans people to begin with.
Plus in elite sports the best are biological freaks anyway. Michael Phelps wouldn't be Phelps if his lung capacity wasn't 7 liters instead of the average of 5l.
Phelps has those too. Plus freakishly large hands, freakishly large wingspan, freakishly flexible ankles. Human variability is something amazing when you think about it.
Do you know a good resource for learning more about this kind of physiology as it pertains to gender and hormones and all that. It sounds interesting and I know one particularly shitty guy who is one of these "oh yeah prove it" types
The other person posted some good links to get started with
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1091417/ioc-guidelines-transgender-tokyo-2020 https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Transgender_Handbook_2011_Final.pdf https://cgscholar.com/bookstore/works/race-times-for-transgender-athletes?category_id=common-ground-publishing https://www.amazon.com/Sporting-Gender-Transgender-Intersex-Athletes/dp/1538112965?ascsubtag=[]vx[e]21096726[t]w[d]D.
But keep in mind most of the people who debate this are concern trolls because this issue looks "debateable" on the surface.
Thank you. And yeah the most I engage with dicks like him is to either call him out on shit or at most shoot him a text with a link or something. You get to a point where you develop a pretty good bullshit detector for if someone is worth your time.
A big one these people bring up is that one UFC fighter that Joe Rogan made a big fuss about. Any thoughts about that specific case?
I don't know too much about that to comment but I did see it mentioned elsewhere in this thread.
We have actual TEACHERS in this godforsaken place? Like actual people in charge of shaping future people?
Not just any teacher. An agriculture teacher in rural Iowa.
I'd be lynched if people knew I was a marxist.
Americans and lack of historical knowledge, name a more iconic couple. The cornbelt probably had more marxists per capita than Brooklyn in the 20s-30s.
Definitely had. Now though, absolutely Trump country and libs. Best we could do for governor (Dem candidate) last go around was a businessman from Des Moines. One of my co-workers has a Steve King sign (we aren't in his district).
It really is hellworld. Wish it still had a marxist bloc
Oh I teach pre-school, its the best time to instill anti-imperalist ideals and teach material analysis
Object permanence is all that's required to understand materialism
Fun fact: trans ppl have yet to win an Olympic medal. That was enough for me to go like, oh, what are we talking about then?
To add, trans people have been officially allowed to compete in the Olympics since 2004. From what I could find, there were no out trans Olympians until the 2020 Olympics.
https://theconversation.com/ten-ethical-flaws-in-the-caster-semenya-decision-on-intersex-in-sport-116448
The significant problem in partial AIS is that although testosterone is elevated in the blood, the receptors for testosterone do not respond to the hormone in the usual way. That is why these individuals have typical external female physical characteristics.
While the testosterone may have some impact on how the body works, it is impossible to quantify how much effect it is having. For example, the difference testosterone makes between males and females in all events is estimated to be up to 12% (all other items being equal). But Semenya’s best time is only 2% faster than her competitors. It is not possible to determine how much of this 2% is due to testosterone, and how much due to other factors about her as an athlete, or her psychology.
The fact that those right wingers constantly fall back on the Fallon Fox fight, which happened in 2014, alone indicates that us transgenders are taking over women's sports.
But on a less acerbic note, HRT wipes away most advantages from being born with XY chromosomes, and the remaining advantages (e.g. bone stuff) are things that also occur in cis woman.
this article (and source obv) are pretty lib, but I think the section on trans sports issues (#8) isn't too bad.
https://www.vox.com/identities/21332685/trans-rights-pronouns-bathrooms-sports
here's a quote:
TW-transphobia
Part of the problem on the anti-trans side is that they’re starting from the base assumption that trans women are men, and substitute cis male physical traits when discussing whether trans women may have competitive advantages. They’ll argue that men have bigger hearts and more lung capacity, or produce more red blood cells on average than cis women, and then assume trans women’s bodies would be the same.
I like this analogy that a trans athlete argued on tucker carlson at 4:30 (sorry for having to see tucker carlson's face)
