All I was saying that I didn’t think it was necessary to have called out people for being misogynists since they said they don’t like vocal fry. Was never trying to hate on women or get into some philosophical argument about why I am a misogynist secretly and have only ever done no-growths.
maybe, but a lot of your responses here were very reactionary, and your original arguments were inconsistent. bigotry isn't something you get up in the morning to do , and put on your "ima murder some black people" mask and... okay bad example. it's usually not that. like, nobody has wifebeating gloves (except cops), that they change into like some creepy supervillain bullshit
its little things, little jabs that people get from a thousand different directions over and over again. and the request here is to not be one of them. its your reactions that are the most worrying thing here. it's fine though. by my material measurement, this argument has cost you nothing, not even a surrendered bit of ego, and im probably gonna end up spending like a hundred dollars getting some asshole a pair of boots.
Yes and you’re drunk replies weren’t at all reactionary since you have held onto them since before yesterday. I get it too, you’re smarter than me and can find inconsistencies in my arguments. Congratulations. You are correct again and I am wrong once more.
my point at least isn't "you're hating on" it was "youre contributing to a structure of devaluation and shittiness that has poisoned your mind, and is using you to propagandize diminish and colonize others"
nobody here suspected you of having a special pair of wife beating gloves and a special cat calling whistle. that's not how this shit (usually) works. its more like viruses. this is a contact telling you "hey, um, dude? did you send me this email asking if I want to buy viagra from a nigerian prince so he can affort his dick extension?"
I don't think that's what it seems like. I've read most of the exchange and I don't think you hate women but you probably are unwilling to do a bit of self examination. As you acknowledge we do live in a sexist society and nobody is immune to their surroundings.
Like even I as someone who reads feminist theory/has experienced sexism will have moments where I instinctively find certain womanly traits annoying and I have to stop myself and question if that annoyance comes from a place of sexism or not (and honestly, sometimes it does). I AM A FEMINIST I STILL THINK I HAVE MY SEXIST MOMENTS. No one is immune from doing sexist things and we have to constantly be open to unlearning/rethinking things. Most instances of sexism are very subtle and unintentional. The important thing is willingness to listen/improve.
Also even if you find it annoying from a completely neutral place, you don't have to point it out. There are a million reasons to dislike the pod, there isn't a need to point out their voices especially if someone is telling you that it contributes to sexist dialogue around women. It's not like pointing out the voice thing is some deep or insightful thing, you're not losing anything by deleting or editing the comment.
you don’t have to point it out. There are a million reasons to dislike the pod, there isn’t a need to point out their voices especially if someone is telling you that it contributes to sexist dialogue around women.
This was what I was thinking. We all have preferences, and maybe those preferences come from a harmful place sometimes, and maybe they don't, but when one is then motivated to publicly criticize another person based on one's personal preferences that's crossing a line.
Though following this thread did bring up a question: what does good self-crit look like in this scenario? After you've recognized that a preference or belief or what-have-you is problematic, how would one reshape their thinking?
I think firstly, its important to remember that a lot of ideas are informed by the world around you and it doesn't necessarily make you a bad person just because you realized or someone has pointed out that your ideas might be associated with bigotry. If someone has, try not to make it about yourself (like even if someone isn't being super nice about it, think about why you're more concerned with how you're being criticized rather than how your words affect others. Focus on WHY you are being critized vs. how . not saying you do this but I see it a lot here
As for next steps its really hard to say because it can be different for everyone. Maybe try and think about how you dismantle capitalist poisoned ideas and apply it to other areas?
For example: Feeling less worthy because of your income. It's very normal to feel this way because in capitalist hellworld everyone around you has either explicitly or subtly reinforced ideas around money based meritocracy. Its OK to have this feeling but also recognize that it comes from a shiity and unfair world and its not some objective sentiment or one that comes from thin air. Its a constant battle and it sucks but it does get easier over time. As I learned more leftist ideas, I got better at catching myself for feeling bad about doing things that "weren't productive".
Another thing is that your sense of normalcy is completely constructed and sometimes things that are out of your control can still be problematic And it's ok to not like things but really think about how you enage with others about it. Like if you dislike a certain style of music its ok to not force yourself to like it but also recognize that maybe one of the reasons you don't is because you haven't been exposed to it (i think studies have found that people tastes in music tend to be mostly formed during their teens). If a style of music has not been supported due to racism during that time, then your tastes are shaped by racism even if it is out of your control or doesn't seem like it at first. Its ok to admit that and work towards supporting and not putting down certain marginalized styles even if its not your cup of tea.
just saw it, and im not 'trying to spark' anything, you complimented my artistic ability, and it's something I have a lot of insecurity about and like... i really treasure those kinds of praise. I was thanking you, asshole.
this is why I don't accept fucking compliments, fucking shit.
It was a sarcastic remark to you and others about framing me as a sexist. The context of the comment is everything.
Now I’m an asshole for saying I don’t want another struggle started? How am I not supposed to read yours as sarcastic and trying to instigate something with a 12 hour later reply after everyone has moved on?
No one told you to not accept compliments. Fucking hell. Literally victimizing yourself at this point.
All I was saying that I didn’t think it was necessary to have called out people for being misogynists since they said they don’t like vocal fry. Was never trying to hate on women or get into some philosophical argument about why I am a misogynist secretly and have only ever done no-growths.
maybe, but a lot of your responses here were very reactionary, and your original arguments were inconsistent. bigotry isn't something you get up in the morning to do , and put on your "ima murder some black people" mask and... okay bad example. it's usually not that. like, nobody has wifebeating gloves (except cops), that they change into like some creepy supervillain bullshit
its little things, little jabs that people get from a thousand different directions over and over again. and the request here is to not be one of them. its your reactions that are the most worrying thing here. it's fine though. by my material measurement, this argument has cost you nothing, not even a surrendered bit of ego, and im probably gonna end up spending like a hundred dollars getting some asshole a pair of boots.
Yes and you’re drunk replies weren’t at all reactionary since you have held onto them since before yesterday. I get it too, you’re smarter than me and can find inconsistencies in my arguments. Congratulations. You are correct again and I am wrong once more.
before yesterday? okay i may have crossed midnight with some funny chemistry upstairs, but if theres anything from serious yesterday here it isn't me
my point at least isn't "you're hating on" it was "youre contributing to a structure of devaluation and shittiness that has poisoned your mind, and is using you to propagandize diminish and colonize others"
Oh well it did not come off that way in any single comment until just now. Thanks for that.
nobody here suspected you of having a special pair of wife beating gloves and a special cat calling whistle. that's not how this shit (usually) works. its more like viruses. this is a contact telling you "hey, um, dude? did you send me this email asking if I want to buy viagra from a nigerian prince so he can affort his dick extension?"
You guys have painted a pretty good picture that makes it seem like I hate women.
I don't think that's what it seems like. I've read most of the exchange and I don't think you hate women but you probably are unwilling to do a bit of self examination. As you acknowledge we do live in a sexist society and nobody is immune to their surroundings.
Like even I as someone who reads feminist theory/has experienced sexism will have moments where I instinctively find certain womanly traits annoying and I have to stop myself and question if that annoyance comes from a place of sexism or not (and honestly, sometimes it does). I AM A FEMINIST I STILL THINK I HAVE MY SEXIST MOMENTS. No one is immune from doing sexist things and we have to constantly be open to unlearning/rethinking things. Most instances of sexism are very subtle and unintentional. The important thing is willingness to listen/improve.
Also even if you find it annoying from a completely neutral place, you don't have to point it out. There are a million reasons to dislike the pod, there isn't a need to point out their voices especially if someone is telling you that it contributes to sexist dialogue around women. It's not like pointing out the voice thing is some deep or insightful thing, you're not losing anything by deleting or editing the comment.
This was what I was thinking. We all have preferences, and maybe those preferences come from a harmful place sometimes, and maybe they don't, but when one is then motivated to publicly criticize another person based on one's personal preferences that's crossing a line.
Though following this thread did bring up a question: what does good self-crit look like in this scenario? After you've recognized that a preference or belief or what-have-you is problematic, how would one reshape their thinking?
I think firstly, its important to remember that a lot of ideas are informed by the world around you and it doesn't necessarily make you a bad person just because you realized or someone has pointed out that your ideas might be associated with bigotry. If someone has, try not to make it about yourself (like even if someone isn't being super nice about it, think about why you're more concerned with how you're being criticized rather than how your words affect others. Focus on WHY you are being critized vs. how . not saying you do this but I see it a lot here
As for next steps its really hard to say because it can be different for everyone. Maybe try and think about how you dismantle capitalist poisoned ideas and apply it to other areas?
For example: Feeling less worthy because of your income. It's very normal to feel this way because in capitalist hellworld everyone around you has either explicitly or subtly reinforced ideas around money based meritocracy. Its OK to have this feeling but also recognize that it comes from a shiity and unfair world and its not some objective sentiment or one that comes from thin air. Its a constant battle and it sucks but it does get easier over time. As I learned more leftist ideas, I got better at catching myself for feeling bad about doing things that "weren't productive".
Another thing is that your sense of normalcy is completely constructed and sometimes things that are out of your control can still be problematic And it's ok to not like things but really think about how you enage with others about it. Like if you dislike a certain style of music its ok to not force yourself to like it but also recognize that maybe one of the reasons you don't is because you haven't been exposed to it (i think studies have found that people tastes in music tend to be mostly formed during their teens). If a style of music has not been supported due to racism during that time, then your tastes are shaped by racism even if it is out of your control or doesn't seem like it at first. Its ok to admit that and work towards supporting and not putting down certain marginalized styles even if its not your cup of tea.
thanks; I've always wanted to get into the visual arts. im glad the effort is paying off.
Why are you trying to spark the fire to this again? This was 12 hours ago.
just saw it, and im not 'trying to spark' anything, you complimented my artistic ability, and it's something I have a lot of insecurity about and like... i really treasure those kinds of praise. I was thanking you, asshole.
this is why I don't accept fucking compliments, fucking shit.
It was a sarcastic remark to you and others about framing me as a sexist. The context of the comment is everything.
Now I’m an asshole for saying I don’t want another struggle started? How am I not supposed to read yours as sarcastic and trying to instigate something with a 12 hour later reply after everyone has moved on?
No one told you to not accept compliments. Fucking hell. Literally victimizing yourself at this point.