Permanently Deleted
So china identified it and showed how to completely crush it.
Other countries didn't bother and blamed china.
COOL
Good to know our pandemic response is based on "he who smelt it, dealt it."
Pretty sure they identified covid in Italy and Spain prior to December 2019 in some tests they did in 2020. Completely not surprised that covid may not have originated in China given the Wuhan/China flu crap they were trying to start back in March.
In the end, it doesn't really matter where it originated. China and Vietnam showed us how to deal with it. The West fucked up its response and continues to fuck up a year later, not stopping for even one second to distribute masks or sanitizer or food and so on - and at least other countries got stimulus or monthly payments but the US fucked that up to for a year and probably will for the rest of 2021. Hopefully the West's fuck up doesn't act as reservoir and incubator for covid variants that are immune to the vaccines that are currently released, although as I understand we already have a variant that's immune to the oxford vaccine.
Pretty sure they identified covid in Italy and Spain prior to December 2019 in some tests they did in 2020. Completely not surprised that covid may not have originated in China given the Wuhan/China flu crap they were trying to start back in March.
Completely disingenuous x2. Neither of these statements is accurate. Brain on next to zero media literacy.
There are no reproducible results of the water samples, and no genealogical traces linking Covid-19 anywhere before the outbreak in Wuhan. And also, this doesn't add any weight to it not originating in China.
Propaganda baby bath water.
Yeah there were a couple of articles worth raising an eyebrow at, but they were and remain far from anywhere near definitive until more research is done. They are not proof unto themselves, just something worth raising an eyebrow at at maximum.
Raising an eyebrow, sure. But when the first half dozen comments in this thread are pushing the same ill-begotten narrative, that should raise the other eyebrow.
You know, like an epidemiological breakout and spread? Given what we know about Covid-19 and its infection rate?
You can generally trace the stacking mutations in these kinds virus since it occurs commonly enough. They’ll stack and you can kind of following the trajectory of how it evolves. Genealogy is a term I haven’t really considered to describe this but I suppose it works.
That’s how they were first able to confirm reinfection because the sequences were different across both infections.
Anyone who's talking shit about @bigbooppaul, knock it off. He's literally combatting liberalism by speaking up when he saw something a comrade said that was wrong. To say see comrades say incorrect things and say nothing is a form of liberalism.
Saying that, I had read about the Italy thing in the Tumori journal back in 2020. It was a scientific article and study that reported that anti-covid antibodies had been detected in the blood of Italian people some time before November 2019. I'm not a big science guy but it seemed legit, it was connected to an italian medical university and the study authors seemed legitimate. You seem to be knowledgeable, is Tumori a legitimate medical science journal?
Also, my bad about the Spanish claim. I should have done better reading about that, because yeah it doesnt seem as legitimate.
But overall, I dont think where it comes from matters as much as how to respond. Pandemics have been with us so long, I dont think we will be able to eliminate the chance of one this century. The best we can do is prepare and respond with justice. I had hoped to focus more on how to respond to covid rather than quibbling on its origin.
Brain on next to zero media literacy.
that's not combating liberalism by correcting a comrade that's just trying to dunk on someone.
Lol, my feelings aren't hurt and I also don't really care if I'm dunked on. Being corrected normally hurts and there's ways of doing it gently and ways of doing that dirtbag style.
:tromp: More and more people are saying it folks :tromp:
- The WHO is controlled by China
- China didn't notify the WHO fast enough
And I'm just sitting here listening Keith Moon
"You're aware that water samples from Spain in March 2019 tested positive for covid right?"
lib: "t-that's a FALSE POSITIVE"
"then how can we be sure that any of the other tests aren't also false positives?"
I guess the bad part is they will become covid denying chuds before they admit there were non-China cases.
Congrats on using the same logic as anti-vaxers.
Was coronavirus really in Europe in March 2019?
A curious thing about this finding is that it disagrees with epidemiological data about the virus. The authors don’t cite reports of a spike in the number of respiratory disease cases in the local population following the date of the sampling.
Also, we know SARS-CoV-2 to be highly transmissible, at least in its current form. If this result is a true positive it suggests the virus was present in the population at a high enough incidence to be detected in an 800ml sample of sewage, but then not present at a high enough incidence to be detected for nine months, when no control measures were in place.
So, until further studies are carried out, it is best not to draw definitive conclusions.
Congrats on using the same logic as anti-vaxers.
no.
A curious thing about this finding is that it disagrees with epidemiological data about the virus. The authors don’t cite reports of a spike in the number of respiratory disease cases in the local population following the date of the sampling.
And this is a fancy way of saying "we don't like this result so we're not counting it". Any number of hypotheticals could account for this, including the possibility that COV2 was much less virulent and much less contagious at that point, AKA it didn't cause much disease (basically like a cold) and didn't spread. This would be in agreement with the epidemiologic data, and it is how pandemic viruses develop (they don't materialize out of thin air)
They've tested it multiple times, so it is probably not a false reading. Even if it was hypothetically false it still doesn't really matter, as there are numerous reports of simultaneous respiratory outbreaks in Nov 2019 and prior in the US and other countries.
tbh the timeline doesn't make any sense, it doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny. By all accounts, if there was covid floating around Italy as early as March 2019,the outbreak should've happened way sooner. No way it would've been confused with the flu, a bad flu outbreak doesn't collapse your hospital system to the ground
I remember liking that finding because it was great news for the iceberg theory thing, that there were exponentially more asymptomatics than symptomatics, but that shit's been disproven to the ground.
If you want to spin this in China favor though, it's easy, it's evidence that China warned everyone exactly in the nick of time.
By all accounts, if there was covid floating around Italy as early as March 2019,the outbreak should’ve happened way sooner.
why?
COVID19 didn't materialize out of thin air. It came from something, the same way that we came from proto-chimps, and that something was once less contagious, less fatal, and generally unremarkable, until it eventually wasn't. It's kind of like saying that because chimps existed 6 million years ago, that humans should have developed way earlier than 300kya
The idea of an outbreak in March2019, limited to be extremely local due to lack of contagion, and barely noticeable due to lack of virulence, isn't scifi and is perfectly possible. That doesn't even mean that it originated in Spain, just that it passed through at some point
I have no desire to spin anything "in favor of China". I'm just interested in reality, and it just so happens that reality is always more pro-China because the entire internet is astroturfed by a mixture of nationalists, white racists, and corporate interests that push an anti-China spin on everything.
I get what you're saying but like that implies a direct less virulent ancestor that traveled all way to a wet market in Wuhan and then somehow it did not evolve independently within Italy into a more virulent strain until it was reintroduced back into Italy after the Wuhan outbreak.
I mean, not an expert here, but there could've been a less virulent version of the stuff floating around in Italy for all I know, so what you say makes sense to me, it just doesn't strike me as the simplest time frame? I don't want to argue a lot more , I'm no expert and carry no authority whatsoever so it's kinda useless anyway. Let's say your theory is plausible and not sci-fi stuff.
but like that implies a direct less virulent ancestor that traveled all way to a wet market in Wuhan and then somehow it did not evolve independently within Italy into a more virulent strain until it was reintroduced back into Italy after the Wuhan outbreak.
Could just be the lower population density.
Also the "Italian" strain (March2020) was found first in China too. It was just a tiny proportion of all cases, probably because it wasn't able to penetrate further into the Chinese population, and instead spread to the west.
It was probably quickly limited in China due to a mix of prior immunity, mask wearing, and actual lockdowns (all of which were lacking in the west)
You're just using a bunch of inconclusive data to bolster your post hoc conclusions. Embarrassing display of scientific illiteracy.
My assumption is they’re testing by PCR?
The problem is that that false positives from that method will be replicable within the same sample source. If there is a stretch of DNA sequence that matches closely (~90%) to the primer sequence used to bind the dna for amplification and detection (these are generally 15-40 base pairs), then it’s possible to get a signal from something not related to covid. This could be another closely related coronavirus, or really anything - it could even be a mutation in some persons genome that gives the primers something close enough to bind to.
The covid primer pair is good, but it’s not perfect. That’s why caution should be used when testing like this.
You don't think with 50+ residents the staff, family, and township in a time before safety precautions and lockdowns wouldn't have spread illness at godforsaken levels?
This website is a fucking honeypot for misinformation. Shame on you.
My god these comments are an absolute shit show. The fuck is going on here?
I'm going on strike until there's a monkey throwing poop animated emote.
I can tell this thread has really gotten to you. You may want to take a break from it.
You're right in what you say that the baseless speculation around it is super hurtful, but it may be good to like pop out for a quick walk or meditation or just away from the screen for a minute. @WhyEssEff was just making a lighthearted joke.
Nah, it's got more nuance than a punchline. This site leans heavily in one direction, so it's not a surprise to see one distinctive narrative taking hold.
It's punching down.
That's because China pays them off with steamy sex! Not Xi with Adhanom, I mean the physical country of China with the organization
