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      • QuillQuote [they/them]
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        edit-2
        4 years ago

        "I'll only act how I think people should act if other people do it first" harumph

              • Liberalism [he/him,they/them]
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                4 years ago

                Sorry, it's "ruthless criticism of all that exists" not "ruthless criticism of all that exists except for your mum"

              • _else [she/her,they/them]
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                edit-2
                4 years ago

                oh my god she so is. like, wow does that woman know how to... bake a delicious wholesome cake for entirely platonic friendtime activity which was exactly how I always planned to end this sentence.

          • QuillQuote [they/them]
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            edit-2
            4 years ago

            If there was ever a place to discuss criticisms and do analysis of AES, ML or anarchist or otherwise, this site is it

            Uncritical support (in a place like this where we're among comrades) of things you have criticisms of is baffling

                  • DivineChaos100 [none/use name]
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                    4 years ago

                    Literally every critique against "AES" is dismissed as "western takes", if it isn't, then "you're not supposed to talk about it", etc., except if it's coming from MLs

                  • _else [she/her,they/them]
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                    4 years ago

                    see, i don't repeat "western" talking points. imperialism bad. militaries bad. foreign militaries are NO LESS BAD because of red flags. pooh bear bad for continuing to entrench capitalism in formerly socialist china, while slowly gutting the socialism, and you people just suck his dick because the capitalism there is still in the early phase where it still has something to prove, is still bribing the workers to let go of the means of fucking production, is still getting its filthy fucking tentacles around their fucking souls.

                    sometimes, the americans and english storm normandy to do some very necessary murder of fascists, even if it's for entirely the wrong reasons. sometimes, the CIA kills someone whose death actually makes the world a better place (just by the law of statistics it's gotta happen pretty often) even if they cause an entire regional of the world to become more skeptical of vaccines and foreign medical aid in general. sometimes, a general atomics reaper drone blows up a schoolbus that bad a future hitler on it (making two more future hitlers, because means are ends)

                    ive been pursued harassed by local police. I've been attacked by white nationalists. the CIA is basically the devil to me, not just in ideals, but part of my personal childhood fucking trauma. and part of their propaganda? is seeming like they're more competent than they are. is appearing to be everywhere. it's a fucking panopticon gambit, and you're falling for it. read some fucking theory. as competent as some of their monsters are (and some are!) they are not all powerful, and even their best are prone to failure. if there are plants in your organization, they're more likely assets than agents, and that says more about your supposed people than it does about them.

                  • DivineChaos100 [none/use name]
                    ·
                    4 years ago

                    I don't know how to tell you without sounding condescending that if your views on anarchists are coming from whatever you read by them on reddit than you have very shallow experiences with anarchism,

              • _else [she/her,they/them]
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                edit-2
                4 years ago

                its not that ML's historically criticize anarchists, it's that they historically kill anarchists, or tell us we're disorganized children and to shut the fuck up and take charge of everything and let spain fall to fascism when an anarchist structure with soviet support would have done a much better job stopping that.

                kill. like with murder. i feel like that's worse. if you can't find it in the history books, perhaps it's because you weren't looking?

                and no, modern comunists are not the flawed fucked up assholes of old. but if we're talking about history, lets not white-wash anything. everybody sucked. everybody. every. single. fucking. person. if there were good guys, we wouldn't be here. so shut the fuck up and stop pretending your intellectual forebears are "pure" or some shit. work on the ideas. dissect the ideas. find a less awful way forward, and suck less IN THE WAYS YOU THINK MOST EFFECTIVE FOR DOING THAT, and don't pitch your 'enlightenedcentrism' shit to anarchists; we're like the worst people for that.

                  • _else [she/her,they/them]
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                    4 years ago

                    I literally said *there are no good guys in history. if there were; we wouldn't be here."

                    and uncritical support of a state going capitalist and turning away from socialism? yeah that's stupid. tankies who do that uncritically are not acting in their right minds. its a serious fucked up problem and I think ML's should fucking do better. we all know how capitalism goes, so why are you people sucking its dick so rabidly?

                    its not that a lot of anarchists are parroting americanisms, it's that a lot of americans are juuuuuuuust starting to be babby anarchists and start adopting/appropriating our stuff. its a messy time, and maybe it's what building sympathy looks like.

                  • _else [she/her,they/them]
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                    edit-2
                    4 years ago

                    they were more strictly organized, lost the international forces when they decided they needed to fucking hierarchalize everything rather than letting them just operate as their own side thing (they could, at LEAST, have been useful idiots), killed morale, etc. "more organized" is not "better organized". im not saying either tactic would have necessarily won; i don't know enough about the military history of the conflict, and what I know of the political history of it always put it at long odds, but the soviets fucked up big and throw away buckets of assets in a specifically tankie sort of way.

                    wait, a big army of assorted leftists FIGHTING FASCISTS IN A PROXY WAR AGAINST HITLER AND MUSSOLINI didn't deserve... well that says a lot of what the soviets (in your mind) actually stand for, doesn't it?

                    and yeah, maybe if half your army is anarchists and volunteers who literally came across the ocean to join you, a strict soviet style structure isn't the smartest fucking move

                    fucking libs, as long as they're gonna keep fighting, deserve support against fascists.

                  • trans [they/them,she/her]
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                    4 years ago

                    "oh, youre against systematically massacring anarchists? well what about that one time anarchists tried to kill a ML?"

              • QuillQuote [they/them]
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                edit-2
                4 years ago

                What about the point being to think about and analyze stuff because thats an invaluable skill for marxists to hone? No one ever said "just posting" china-criticisms, I'm pushing back against you saying NO criticisms. And no, I'm not talking genocide shit, I'm saying we should make more of a habit of actually analyzing what china is doing, right and wrong, for the purpose of learning and thinking about a present example of the system and what it's doing/ how it might change/ perspectives for the future

                  • GlacialTurtle [none/use name]
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                    4 years ago

                    Again, analysis is one thing, and overt criticism is another.

                    No it's not. Analysis can and often does involve overt criticism, and it's clear dipshits like yourself twist in knots to shut down discussions rather than engage seriously in them, hence the obviosuly absurd conditional of talking about anarchists bad so therefore I can ignore any other attempt to engage in this shit.

              • trans [they/them,she/her]
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                4 years ago

                i will continue to criticize homophobic and racist states that self identify as socialist yeah, sorry

    • _else [she/her,they/them]
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      4 years ago

      the criticism is mostly words too, so maybe both are weak statements of 'yep, those aren't the top priority problems, and they're currently being problems for some of the other problems, so fuck them but we have other shit to do.;

        • _else [she/her,they/them]
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          4 years ago

          what im saying is "bad news: the heater broke. mixed news: the radiator broke, and im now running the heater to warm up the inside of the car so we don't have to stop. but at least we're warm!" is critical support for the (now broken) radiator. which in this metaphor is the chinese government.