https://lib.lgbt/post/252855
The most aggravating thing about these is that they keep implying hexbear is a straight site that made the decision to let us be here. When they make detached from reality insults like hexchan or israel it’s easy to say ‘lol, no’. But I hate that they’re also trying to smuggle in the idea that of course it’s the straight people that are in charge of this website. Probably without even realizing it.
Personally I prefer the ones where they just call us fake queers.
I yearn for the moment I get banned for just being a cis white male.
You wouldn't believe some of the shit they're making up about us on the lemmyverse now that we aren't there to contradict it. According to several posts I've seen we're literal nazis who throw up swastikas for fun and hate trans people. There's been a telephone game of uncharitable interpretations and now a good percent of users have only heard about us this way and have lumped us in with 4channers such that they think we're literal nazis.
I've tried to push back against some of it in the most gentle "civil" way and gotten banned for "subverting defederation" I guess I'm not allowed to have two accounts on the lemmyverse 🤷
On the bright side, it can create a sort of backwards marketing push where people who are morbidly curious come here and then don't see any of that and are opened up to hearing our side of the story
I hope so, but there are posts on the MeanwhileOnGrad sub that are just entirely not what the content of the screenshot says, and it's left as an exercise for the reader to stretch it to painful lengths to interpret it uncharitably, yet still get overwhelming support.
https://lemm.ee/post/6746471
You might just find your own posts on there.
Feel free to let me know if you spot one of my comments there.
The comm is a ghost town run by an obsessive, I'm not worried.
My point being that this is just an example of what our representation looks like on the greater lemmysphere. The way these posts are taken uncritically as evidenced by the upvote counts and lack of challenge shows that this is more or less the standard opinion.
Sample size, sample selection. The activity is miniscule and dissenters get banned. This is just a tiny cult, not standard opinion.
You can go do a search for every instance of the word "hexbear" on other sites. It genuinely is standard opinion
I’ve tried to push back against some of it in the most gentle “civil” way and gotten banned for “subverting defederation” I guess I’m not allowed to have two accounts on the lemmyverse 🤷
👀
I’ve tried to push back against some of it in the most gentle “civil” way and gotten banned for “subverting defederation” I guess I’m not allowed to have two accounts on the lemmyverse 🤷
👀
Anyone realize having individualist "empowering" 'filter out any user or community you want' webforum federation might just be hyper-capitalist choicemongering and not a communist way to build a website yet?
Memories of the great purge years back when we added pronouns lol
So many assholes outing themselves and getting banned
How do people expect to be taken seriously while blatantly lying about ban reasons when the mod log is public?
Oh look, it was not banned for saying gender-neutral pronouns exist.It originally signed up with the above username and was mad about having to change names.
if i knew that i would have lobbied for more purging, that shit dont change overnight
i really do wish they were federated just so we could tap on the glass and mention it to the lib.lgbt admins just to see the response. not gonna bother wasting my time making an account for their shit instance that doesnt ban a chaser name immediately
also doesnt implement pronouns. funny coming from a group that claims to be so LGBT positive while deriding the instance with pronouns implemented as manipulating LGBT people. theres many a reason so many trans people are here. at least one reason is avoiding obvious gaslighting.
I think we should avoid objectification of all kinds when it comes to real people. If they are asking for art, it's whatever, I guess. Queer people are also capable of having pathological behaviors and mindsets, and the replication of cishet pathologies in [individuals and segments of] queer communities has been long-documented.
This was/is the most predictable thing ever. They did not make a single good faith argument.
I disagree with that. I never saw what I understood as a bad faith argument. It bordered on some things that might sound like reactionary points but I think it was just a little confused, maybe had a hard time explaining things on account of being neurodivergent and perhaps didn't fully understand them in the first place. You just had to get deeeeeeep in the weeds with it to try to figure out what the fuck it was talking about. There were a lot of claims that things are a certain way, and then that thing being referenced out of context later elsewhere and you had to refer back to the whole history of the user to figure out what was going on. Maybe it needed a user to ride along and translate for it lol
Edit: Since I was regrettably unclear below You can prefer any pronouns for any reason and that is valid. It is the responsibility of the speaker to make an effort to respect those pronouns
"If you use they/them...you'll never gender someone correctly."
Explain how that's not reactionary.
I'm going to need the context there because that doesn't sound like something dronerights would have said.
The comment is in the modlog and was posted elsewhere in the thread. Copied the screenshot here, context is a transphobic concern troll post removed by mods that it was supporting.
https://hexbear.net/comment/3890636Show
It responded here: https://lemm.ee/post/12418057
Here’s the nuance: If you call someone who uses they/them they/them, then you are REFERRING to them correctly, but you’re not GENDERING them correctly, because you aren’t gendering them at all. You’re referring to them neutrally, which is the correct way to refer to someone who wants to be referred to neutrally.
I sympathise and agree with much of what you are saying.
"they is not ideal, but until you know better it will suffice." might be the intended message.If the person is replying in good faith and actually trying to both to understand and be understood. And that would include explicitly stating somewhere that it acknowledges that being pedantic about de-gendering vs misgendering is not constructive.
Paraphrasing, the events went along these lines.
- user: TERFs use they/them pronouns for people who they damn well know use different pronouns as a way to de-gender people and as a slight against trans people
- dronerights: actually, they/them is right anyways because it doesn’t do anything with gender, so the TERFs aren’t doing anything wrong, they are using language correctly
Descriptivism vs Prescriptivism. Its argument is that prescriptivism and technical definition is the only correct interpretation of they/them pronouns. Compare ‘they banned me for saying gender neutral pronouns exist’ with, for instance, JKKK Rowling claiming to be canceled for saying gender exists. Its a false argument. Descriptively, they/them is not used neutrally, and is used to hurt people, therefore they/them can be gendered. TERFs use they/them as a stand-in for misgendering, therefore it is misgendering. They/them means she/her for people who use he/him, and vice versa. They/them means ‘I refuse to use your made up neopronouns’. The gender neutral definition isn’t the only one, and dronerights insisting upon the gender neutrality in all circumstances is incorrect.
The pedantic insistence that the context shouldn’t matter because they/them is technically correct, or should be correct, is where the transphobia lies.
And until I see any acknowledgement by dronerights of this, instead of constantly doubling down on it, I do not see a good faith argument.
Instead we have this. The user misrepresenting events. Misrepresentation is bad faith. If it said it was being a pedantic jerk and clarified, that would go a long way to earning this generous interpretation of its position that you want to give it. It is trying to be right and win an internet argument at any cost and constantly starts fights between users and instances (also bad faith actions).
There are two separate transphobic things in DroneRights's comment that got it banned and you're getting way off into the weeds on one while ignoring the reason given in the modlog, which is enbyphobia. They/them are ideal (whatever the fuck that means) pronouns and they aren't necessarily gender neutral when they're being used for someone who prefers them.
I think what was meant was "they is not ideal, but until you know better it will suffice."
That doesn't make it better holy shit. For some of us, they is ideal. That's the point.
That's.. not at all what I was saying. You can prefer any pronouns, for any reason, and that's valid. Using "they" when you have not made reasonable effort to ascertain another's pronouns is misgendering. If a person's preferred pronouns are they/them that is also valid and those are the pronouns you should use.
To reword my previous comment "(without making reasonable effort to ascertain someone's preference) they is not ideal, but until you know better it will suffice."
If "they" is only accidentally correct I don't think that's exactly any better because the intention was the same.I had written it in many more words and then shortened it later, thinking I was making it more clear, but apparently making it less clear. The blame is on me for that.
In the first sentence I also acknowledged that you were correct in a literal sense, but you did do some editorializing. As for whether I think dronerights was being trans/nbphobic I'm still not sure because there is more evidence than I stated with and it leads into some topics I don't feel equipped to make any sort of judgement on, as I alluded to in the last sentence.
I don't think trying to explain myself was uncalled for when the circumstances made me look like I was intentionally and knowingly defending enbyphobic behavior. Not being perceived as a trans/nbphobe here is actually really important to me.
Not being perceived as a trans/nbphobe here is actually really important to me.
kinda surprising tbh given how many words you're writing to defend enby erasure here and that you're still doing it!
all for what, to defend the honor of an obvious shit-stirrer who's been banned for a while now? seems like you don't need much motivation to cast doubt on what your trans comrades here are telling you. putting you back on block now
tldr
I'm sorry that nuance requires so many words I guess, but when I just got my ass handed to me for using too few you can kind of understand it right?
"If you use they/them...you'll never gender someone correctly."Explain how that's not reactionary.
You demanded that I explain a specific thing out of context.
https://lemm.ee/post/12418057
Oh look I was right, dronerights was not expressing nbphobia it the way you presented it.
You editorialized it and I recognized that it didn't make sense in context, and challenged it on that basis. I had read every single comment and post by dronerights because I thought it was interesting and if what you said it had said was true I would have remembered it.I acknowledged my part in being unclear and maybe I suck at explaining myself but you're making no effort to listen to what I'm actually saying, when you have literally no good reason to think I'm being disingenuous. I'm open to self crit here but I also know that I'm not doing the thing I'm being accused of and If I'm wrong it's out of ignorance not malice.
holy shit read the fucking thread in the post you linked, the top comment re-explains what I've been saying in like four words
the 'nuance' you and it are circlejerking over is just more words saying the god damn thing
THIS IS STILL ENBY ERASURE. SELF CRIT YOUR TRANSPHOBIA CISSIE
Me, three comments up this chain:
If a person's preferred pronouns are they/them that is valid and those are the pronouns you should use.
Dronerights, replying to that same top comment:
I agree.
Please stop painting me a fucking transphobe. It's a huge stretch to suggest that I think any pronouns except they/them are acceptable but I still went ahead and spelled it out for you
lmao what a willful misreading of that thread, transphobe. 'I agree, [more enby erasure]' does not shorten to 'I agree'. Especially when there's more back and forth from a nonbinary person there again saying the exact same fucking thing I've been here, with dronerights behaving exactly the same way there.
clearly its ban was justified and I'll be
when you catch yours toostop being transphobic if you don't want that label, cissie.
You might have noticed that I'm not dronerights and I'm not responsible for it's comments, particularly ones made after my initial post, but that "I agree" is uncontestable proof that the specific form of NB erasure you're accusing me of supporting was your misreading.
The mod log should be pinned to the front page. And the post should be titled: “If you’re from another instance trying to find proof that your users were mistreated by evil tankies, please search their username in this log.”
“More importantly they’re also jerks”
More importantly? Really? That’s more important to you than the alleged transphobia?
They come from the Maher-xist school of thought, where being rude is only allowed when you're punching down.
Hexbear's gone from preying on LGBTQ minorities to a much more disturbing, sensitive target: Me
Pretending to be pro-LGBT+ to...huh? Why are libs this insane? They genuinely can't comprehend that people to the left of them exist
Pretty irrelevant instance, they have virtually no posts if you change the filter to instance-only.
Maybe it’s 📽
c/traaa alone is comparable to the entire site and they think they can talk about "authenticity."
I think !traa@hexbear.net is a better comparison, not even the real !traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns@hexbear.net
we made that comm somewhat recently and it has more activity and comments and posts than their whole site
Lmao, this person again. The minute it started posting on Hexbear after getting banned on blahaj.zone, I knew we were dealing with some sort of wrecker/troll.
im relatively familiar with how they work, and dronerights definitely sounded suspicious as hell. most xenogenders are more like triggers from what i understand. like a rainy day might make you feel femme but a sunny day masc. a lot of it is kind of philosophical too. still def not very well versed in it, idk if we have any resident xenogender people that can better explain
its also fucking hilarious because we have pronoun selection on account creation. its right there.
Pronoun selection that includes several clearly neutral pronouns like they/them and it/its (the latter of which this user used!)
i was the mod who banned them. i did it because they are Transgendered. I love HAMAS, and Putin’s peanus is actually in my mouth erect right now (i am fellating Vladimir Putin)
the question is is it lying or is it just so spectacularly stupid that someone telling it "hey Reddit creep, your username is innappropriate" and assumed it was because it mentions nonbinary people.
e:prnos
I love the fact that we are still respecting its pronouns, even after it got its deserved ban. The fact we need to catch everyone up on the lore is also hilarious.
It seemed to believe that referring to people with they/them pronouns against their wishes was fine and it didn’t like that people were calling it out for that.
Not just that but pretty disgusting enby erasure as well. "If you use they/them...you'll never gender someone correctly."
Glad it finally got banned it was fucking obnoxious.
The "pretending to be pro-LGBTQ+ just to get more commies" narrative about y'all will never not be fucking hilarious to me.
"How one gained power, by fighting for the powerless, was never explained"if you want personal power there's so many easier ways to reach it than communism. communism is the hard mode of getting anywhere near power
Ah, but once you get power the hard way you can do the spooky evil things. Like building nuclear plants and making sure everyone has running water. Not because people should have electricity or potable water, but because happy, satisfied people are less likely to overthrow you!!! Muhahaha!!!!!
They're the Israel of lemmy instances
im really not even angry, this is fucking beautiful
like what does that even mean? how did your brain make such a leap that it could have crossed the grand canyon? I really keep trying to respect some liberals but a bunch of their ideology boils down to "I don't like thing, so it is bad, and this bad thing is also every other bad thing" and then pretend they've unlocked the secret to the goddamn universe.
pretty sure it is just a professional troll. finds it fun for some bizarre reason
It got booted from blahaj first, used that as pretext to get us to shit on that instance, caused trouble here and got booted, used that as pretext to cause trouble on a new instance, rinse and repeat
I think the beef with blahaj started before it got here. Iirc there was some association with r/196, and the anti-tankie crusaders + chasers that implies
Yeah our beef started prior, meaning it was all the easier to get us to shit on them in this instance too. Just manipulative/trolling
Imma take a look
Not surprising. Being trans feels a lot like being straight.
I hope they mean this in like a very very good way
Grandma doesn’t have a gender and doesn’t realise why people who have genders think they’re important. She’d be equally happy identifying as a man and she doesn’t realise that’s unusual.
okay please explain to me what this means I legit am just ????ing at this right now
Hexbear is transphobic. They harassed me the whole time I was there
I bet my life savings they were saying dumb libshit or discriminatory bullshit and high tailed it because they got rightly dunked for it
oh god they mainly post on beehaw, Lemmygrad basically created that community after a bunch of lemmy gusanos raged that their terminal liberalism got absolutely torn to shreds by the effortposting gods.
Okay they seem to be completely genuine too, because they have good takes mixed in with it. Critical support to them dragging CookieJarObserver (some of you remember this "I AM THE OBSERVER" fucking weirdo) through shit on Israel.
Now that i've looked through, you could be right, because they have hexbear takes everywhere besides when they're hating on hexbear, okay and some libshit about finding 'unbiased leftist sources'
my real contention is finding out their posting on hexbear, what were they arguing about. Give it to us you nerd, I dare you!
I'm going to be on the side of 'they're just really libshit' because its just too authentic
I bet my life savings they were saying dumb libshit or discriminatory bullshit and high tailed it because they got rightly dunked for it
said a lot of racist and transphobic stuff, specifically. iirc about chinese people
Hexbear is transphobic. They harassed me the whole time I was there
From its lemmy.blahaj.zone modlog (where it's also banned):
I'm not a troll. You can go look up my new Hexbear account I made after they told me Hexbear wasn't transphobic, and you can see me talking about my gender consistently for the past week, and you can see transphobes on Hexbear calling me an anti-hexbear troll because they think swarmgenders are a joke.
swarmgenders
...
...
Dronerights?
IS THIS LITERALLY DRONERIGHTS?
holy SHIT this just gets better
OH MAH GAWD ITS DRONERIGHTS
I did not see this shit coming oh mah lawd, this is like if Liberal Socialist started posting on lemmy.world im fucking dying
Keep posting you crazy bastard, godspeed to you.
Although they hated on she-ra out of nowhere once and it really hurt my feelings im still coping hard about that one
Looks like it. I stay out of people's shit and I prefer they stay out of mine. But I knew they were trouble.
I didn't really get the defense of it, it really got combative over every little thing. I don't care if they made a single good point, its not worth the amount of whining its ban got.
I remember something about literally identifying as a borg drone? Also something about how communication and understanding with others was sex and therefore talking to neurotypicals was SV?
Huh, I assumed it was identifying as multiple entities internally and your outward expression is a consensus of that, or something similar to that.
I kinda jetted out of those threads early because they were extremely quick to accuse anyone of being a secret reactionary for innocuous misunderstandings. I've been around that sort of person before and it's exhausting even if you think they're right.
Dronerights never identified as having schizophrenia or anything.of the sort and instead talked about the "ergogic swarm" in reference to other people.
oh god they mainly post on beehaw, Lemmygrad basically created that community after a bunch of lemmy gusanos raged that their terminal liberalism got absolutely torn to shreds by the effortposting gods.
I am begging you, Each of You, Any of You, who understand what events this references to please fill me in on them or tell me what to search to read this history.
I have mentioned before that I was confused by the attitude towards Beehaw around here and I mostly get it now, but this is the missing piece of the puzzle. I didn't know there was a whole Thing that happened, I thought it was just a vibes mismatch.
Please, Elder Posters: teach me!
short version: well it was in the early months of the ukraine war, and some terminal brained liberals who were there started getting really angry in the news articles. Every news post had 50 or so comments at least with Yogthos and the others (I was there yay im so cool im like the best and smartest) basically predicting how the ukraine war would turn out with lots of sources whos predictions were a mirror image of how the war is turning out now (marxist leninists stay winning). This got some folks really, really mad, so they decided to find and hide in a 'free speech' instance, beehaw. The biggest immigration to beehaw were people part of the massively pro-ukraine crowd. They had nazis and turbolibs joining hands and frolicking into the sunset. Beehaw and lemmygrad were basically enemies for a bit, vying for political dominance now that lemmy.ml couldn't ban them for whitewashing nazis and the like, but Lemmygrad has since grown far beyond such losers.
It was a collection of events over the course of twoish months, with like a one and a halfish month stalemate period.
@GrainEater@lemmygrad.ml @yogthos@lemmygrad.ml know it better than me prob, i can remember them arguing with the libs
i remember predicting that them rushing kiev was a feint and i was right and i felt big brained 🤓
Thank you for helping me understand the basics and giving me the clues to dig further when I have time.
irl, I'm a Sweetie, the "let's make a nice place for nice people" stuff appeals to me because the world is so full of meanness and cruelty. And then the layers get peeled back, and oh look, this is also mean and cruel, just in a totally different way. 😑
and I'm autistic and a lot of stuff just flies over my head unless someone is kind enough to explain it to me - thank you. ❤️ I really do appreciate your time.
Considering Beehaw users were constantly, constantly stirring shit on lemmy and elsewhere about defederating with and opposing "tankies" and, iirc, pre-emptively defederated from us, I think the attitude is self-explanatory. They are shitlibs.
@DroneRights@lemm.ee, @DroneRights@hexbear.net, @DroneRights@startrek.website, @PM_ME_FAT_ENBIES@hexbear.net, probably others, plus defederated instances (blahaj, world)
Grandma doesn’t have a gender and doesn’t realise why people who have genders think they’re important. She’d be equally happy identifying as a man and she doesn’t realise that’s unusual.
okay please explain to me what this means I legit am just ????ing at this right now
if it's not 100% pure made up trolling, i think that resembles "unselfaware bisexual from generation that didn't talk about that sort of thing assuming everybody else has hetero- and homo- attractions too" but for gender. She/Him Grandma, if grandma exists, as described would be some kind of NB or on the apathetic end of agender.
Apparently it identifies as having NPD, so this theory kinda makes sense
like what does that even mean?
It's my great honor to notify you that you personally have received a reply by DroneRights in its own self-created subcomm over on lemm.ee - Here you go
I randomly saw it on an alt account and don't think you got the ping, so
Between the instance where people declare their pronouns next to their username and a chaser, I don't know who to believe. What a dilemma.
it's a deliberate tactic to scare people from coming here. they're shameless liars.
Especially since a colossal portion of our userbase falls under the alphabet mafia.
The MSS, FSB, SVR, GRU, and so on.
Nazis and neoliberals will lie through their teeth if they think it benefits them. And they will back each other up in those lies whenever they think it benefits them.
Truth is not important. If it hurts their political enemy they will do it.
You say that, but I know those Hexbear types. They may say they're inclusive and run a largely trans instance that actively bans transphobic users and language, sure. Up to and including the day of revolution they'll probably insist they support LGBTQIA rights, fight for them even. But trust me they're faking it
Getting to triple-dip into xiyuan, putinrubles, and sorosbucks was too tempting. Hexbear only accepts trans communists, so that’s what I became. While taking medical transition steps isn’t necessary to be trans, it helped with getting into character. Some people claim it’s “gender euphoria” but I attribute it to the satisfaction of committing to the bit to mislead the libs. I got along well with another pretend trans poster, and the DMs turned into a full-blow performative t4t relationship. Eventually we moved in together to stretch the botmoney further. We started a family to pass on the communist bit to a new generation. We never stopped posting. 4 kids and 12 grandchildren later, A wrecker I could not defeat came for me. Cancer. In hospice, surrounded by my loved ones, chosen family, and circle of friends, they asked me what final wisdom I wanted to pass on before handing me the morphine button.
“Haha, you all fell for it you rubes! I was faking it this whole time. I wasn’t actually fighting for the liberation of marginalised people and the working class. I hate you all!”
I mash the button while holding my partner’s hand, who congratulates me on the historic bit but calls me a lib for ruining kayfabe. I die in shame.
I NEED this as a tagline or something. it's to good to lie in this comment section forever
...but the MOMENT THEY TAKE POWER- (Horseshoe theory, paradox of power nonsense, Stalin reference etc.)
Oh no! A controversial gender!? My day is absolutely ruined and now I hate everybody that isn't white straight and cis.
I have decided to fuel up my paraglider and join Hamas.
The whole "pretending to be LGBTQ-friendly" accusation with such conviction made absolutely no sense to me until I think it kind of clicked for me where they might be coming from. I think the origin of that belief isn't really actual ignorance but instead a partial understanding of their own liberal politics projected onto us.
Imagine you're a lib and you genuinely want queer people to have somewhat better lives in a world that is largely hostile to them. Liberal democracy only allows the continued existence of capitalism and the order that hurts LGBTQ people in the first place. So your only actual option within that system is to put your support behind a political entity that acts like it's the protector of marginalized people when it's convenient and reinforces systems and narratives of oppression when it's not. No matter how much you make LGBTQ rights a personal value of yours or how often you consume media that tells you how important the issue is to your chosen political entity, there will always be a rift between what you think is right and important and what the people you support actually bother doing about it.
On the other hand, imagine you're a lib who doesn't actually care about LGBTQ issues but you're also not frothing at the mouth thinking about two dudes making out. To you the whole issue has always been nothing but a cultural signifier of other values or if your brainworms are powerful enough it's a tribal team sports thing. Either way, if you have any self awareness you also at least partially understand that queer people are just the ball in a game of liberal politics.
For both of those hypothetical libs it's not a big step at all to see someone opposing their own politics and assume that our support for queer people is fake, because if you take the liberal world view for granted that's the only thing that DOES make sense.
In conclusion, this comment was mostly me trying to call people libs twice 
What the fuck is going on. Pinkwashing? This place has been a bastion of acceptance since day 1. We've stumbled a few times but who hasn't.
no but actually trans acceptance is transpobia, tankie
authoritarian owned
It's always kind of fun go detective mode
and figure out why they actually got bannedBy "gender neutral pronouns exist", I bet it means it was actually defending Theying everyone despite their very visible pronouns lol
wouldnt be surprised if there are some threads obsessed with us over there. cant say i feel like going to check, its cozy here
Yeah, I don't buy the idea that this is someone being genuine. I smelled troll the second that user showed up here.
Yeah people very much use they them pronouns as a thing. Every nonbinary person I know IRL does, and they very much have a gender.
Also like, on a basic level, my pronouns are not they/them and you ARE misgendering me if you use them for me
There were a couple posts that could be taken as "my gender is helicopter" if you weren't familiar with the user. I didn't agree with the ban but I understood it. DroneRights uses it/its pronouns FTR
Was the final ban because of the "my partner is airplanekin" comment or was that the pre-ban?
p sure the official reason was enbyphobia iirc but i'm too lazy to check
e: lmao literally two posts down someone post the ban screencap
iirc it was the comment comparing han culture to whiteness and white supremacy.
smart girl
![[CW: chaser username] Hexbear: Not pro-LGBTQ+, the Israel of Lemmy instances](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/ecb0ac2c-5607-439f-8507-ec2eb8170ba5.png){kind=link}