We have to do it. Some of us have to do it in different ways. Doing small things where you can is all well and good but literally none of us are making a single impact in capitalism by making different choices about how we're forced to participate in it. Focus on tearing it down together rather than picking apart individual choices because those individual choices still result in participating in capitalism.

    • J_Edbear_Hoover [she/her]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Lmaooooo this site has become a total joke if this kind of comment is being up voted. "Eating meat to own the libs" is the stupidest fucking thing I've read in a long time. Thanks for the laugh.

        • J_Edbear_Hoover [she/her]
          ·
          4 years ago

          Bullshit, it's accusing vegans of distracting from class consciousness because we're trying to end suffering.

          • danisth [he/him]
            ·
            4 years ago

            It's saying that vegan's accusing non-vegans of being bad leftists in distracting from class consciousness. Vegans being vegans to reduce animal suffering is obviously good, and I don't think that the comment insulated that it wasn't.

            • J_Edbear_Hoover [she/her]
              ·
              4 years ago

              This comment is a perfect example of why people who can afford to exist without meat but choose not to are larping as leftists. Luxury communism is a myth, and to live in a truly classless world would require a reduction in standard of living for most westerners. People like you are incapable of making any type of sacrifice to the collective good. The benefits to a society consuming no animal products are innumerable; the lower healthcare costs and reduced environmental impact should be enough on their own for a society truly invested in the collective good. "Steak tastes good and I should be able to eat what I want" is literally the most liberal position you could have.

      • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Between the shitty reactionary anti vegan arguments like the one above and vegans refusing to self crit after an indigenous person thought their 2011 ifunny tier bit was racist, it really is extremely embarrassing and a complete joke.

        • J_Edbear_Hoover [she/her]
          ·
          4 years ago

          I've long maintained that my food choices are my own and I have never shamed anyone else for theirs. I think that human life is paramount, but if you can afford enough healthy calories and protein without killing an animal, you should do so. As far as the spiritual beliefs of indigenous people; the spiritual beliefs of plenty of faiths are in contradiction to my values, am I supposed to sublimate my own strongly held beliefs?

          • BakaToTest [des/pair]
            ·
            4 years ago

            Which indigenous person is saying they don't respect your right to your beliefs? Its the vegans yesterday and today that called them 'uneducated' and implied backwardness in their beliefs.

          • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
            ·
            4 years ago

            The comment definitely wasn't aimed at you or anything, just a general comment on the state of the site in response. But as for the beliefs of indigenous people, the right to self determination and leaving them to practice their culture in peace is what I've always thought. They've had enough of other people telling them how to live their lives, and so long as nothing very reactionary is occurring, it's really no one else's business.

      • SerLava [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        You have too many tabs opened up with meat comments

    • garbage [none/use name,he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      shit tier take.

      vegans absolve the government and capitalists for their perpetuation of the cruel factory farming system.

      "vegans absolve the government and capitalists for their perpetuation of the cruel factory farming system."

      and this is fucking upvoted. fucking bullshit.

        • garbage [none/use name,he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          yeah that's much better. it doesn't lump all vegans into group and a demonize them, and limits it to judgmental people.

          edit: i still disagree with the point you're making, but at least it doesn't just immediately attack all vegans as somehow absolving capitalism for choosing not to eat animals/dairy

    • AlexisOhanian [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      How do you propose we get to a collective consensus on addressing animal cruelty without individuals first being convinced to stop doing animal cruelty?

        • AlexisOhanian [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          Eating chicken is like sex for you? The sensation of eating a steak is more important than avoiding inflicting a lifetime of suffering on a being very much like you?

        • AlexisOhanian [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          And who one that committee is going to propose we ban the production and consumption of meat, if none of those people are opposed to it?

          How do you expect the populace to react if no one understands the reasoning and ethics behind it?

      • CptKrkIsClmbngThMntn [any]
        ·
        4 years ago

        This is a very sensible comment, thank you.

        I’m sure vegans would be very happy to introduce systemic change but for some reason non-vegans aren’t on board with banning animal agriculture. I don’t think it’s a mystery as to why.

        Ding ding ding ding ding! When I said that meat would be scarce or unavailable in a true communist society, people shit their pants over it and I got replies saying, "even if that's true, SHUT UP about it, you're driving people away"

    • AndPeopleWhoDo [any, she/her]
      ·
      4 years ago

      I absolutely agree that blaming individuals is the silliest thing possible, because part of my core beliefs is that people are ultimately reflections of their experiences and circumstances (good or bad), which you can't control or decide. However in the case of veganism, as far as ive read, an individual choosing to be vegan does have a tiny but still meaningful effect on the supply chain, and to me at least sparing just a couple animals is worth it. So blaming people is the wrong mindset, instead we should all be addressing the individuals in our lives about these things, however is reasonable.

      But yeah its a collective problem and imo the collective solution is to have as many people as possible working to collectively boycott the (heavily subsidized and unsustainable) industries, and that starts with encouraging friends and families to do what they can reasonably do to participate in this movement. I see it as a movement thats growing rapidly and is already having effects on these industries, so in terms of fulfilling forms of praxis its up there.

    • Punk [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Vegan activism encompasses way more than just advocating for people to be vegan. If omnis wanna advocate with vegans for the end to oppression of animals then they're welcome to but weirdly they always end up coming to the conclusion that actually there's nothing wrong with eating animals

        • Punk [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          Of course and that's a good thing in the same way that socdems wanting to limit the harms of capitalism is a good thing. It's an incomplete analysis that vegans are looking to complete.

          It just comes across as disingenuous that your original comment is saying the problem with veganism is tactical when actually your problem is it advocates for the end of more than just factory farming.