So much for "we support our vegan comrades" from what, 3 days ago
Mainstream vegan sub is capitalism.. It's a completely different perspective. And a lot of libs/capitalists hate CTH sub ppl and think we're assholes so your point is quite idiotic indeed.
Mainstream vegan sub is capitalism
I don't agree at all, most of what I can find on it shows that anti capitalist sentiments are rather popular. Just from a quick search of "capitalism" I found https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/lrnm7z/veganism_is_cheap_plantbased_capitalism_is_fraud/, and https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/fx4uhl/veganism_makes_me_despise_capitalism/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/dgw231/what_stage_of_capitalism_is_it_when_you_think/ and even a poll with the large majority of responses being that they're anti capitalist https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/lugzhh/as_a_vegan_are_you_anticapitalist/
Just because they kick you out for yelling at members excited for vegan options at fast food restaurants doesn't mean they are "fake non vegan capitalists" in disguise like VCJ says they are.
You don't agree because you've never been on the r/vegan sub, you literally just went there to do a quick search. Most of us have been there for years and see the types of posts (I've personally been there for 5 years). They have completely different approaches to animal liberation.
This argument from the same places that defines all non vegans as anti leftist (including people like Castro or Mao) falls rather flat to me then to say that main sub isn't. If you're already way more exclusive with the word than others, who is to say that you aren't for /r/vegan? I've legit seen complaints that /r/vegan is too capitalist because they wanted to eat a vegan burger.
I can't do the marxism/vegan view justice myself in one post, but from the theory sub if anyone actually cared to read it:
Marxists, in turn, do not hold animal liberation activists in particularly high regard either: they are often seen as strange ascetics and bourgeois moralists who invest themselves in negligible causes instead of focusing on the key issues. They are expected to take part in actions and alliances for class struggle, but to leave their ‗animal craze‘ at the door. Many comrades break out in cold sweat when they ponder a society in which both humans and animals alike are liberated from exploitation and oppression, since it would mean giving up their meat and cheese. And anyway: Friedrich Engels already made fun of the ―Herren Vegetarianer‖ who underestimated the importance of meat consumption in the history of human civilization and who were, at best, utopian socialists.
Nevertheless, we reject this opposition and believe that the historical materialist analysis and critique of society developed by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, the corre- sponding politics and the call to liberate animals from their socially produced suffering all necessarily belong together. On the one hand, demands for animal liberation are indeed moralist if they do not analyse the historically specific conditions in which the exploitation of animals is taking place and which social changes are necessary to end it. On the other hand, however, every Marxist critique of society remains incomplete if it does not consider the fact that, to make profits, the ruling classes have not only exploited the oppressed classes within the history of class struggle, but also and always animals (and nature).
Anticapitalism that isn't affirmatively socialist is just capitalism with extra steps.
You banned Maarskapone for following the new rule and only posting vegan stuff in strugglesession. Don't act like you're just banning wreckers.
Ok but firstly,
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When you ban there are no actual explanations given so this reeks of admins having personal vendettas.
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When you unban people (I see LiberalTears is now unbanned), you don't give any explanation for why they were banned and what was wrong with your ban, so this reeks of not having any clear standards for banning
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You don't care about removing posts that are clear bait from the omni side (obvious example is here: https://hexbear.net/post/94769
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And see this is my point, you just banned the dude with a ton of numbers in his username for "shit stirring" even though he's in the VEGAN comm defending the vegan perspective from omnis which are shitting on vegans here. (Ignoring Rule 2 of the godamn sub).
Yeah I saw Maarskapone posting in the discord asking what the procedure for coming back on was and they seem to genuinely want to engage in a broad leftist website. That said, give the admins time they said they would review the bans and they've been doing so, people are just tired rn and burnt out.
Revisionist! Sounds a lot like “On the Circle of Jerking and Its Consequences” to me.
:corn-man-khrush: :stalin-stressed:
So we just don't have any mods here now? Chamomile wasn't part of them and she's left the site
They were people posting about veganism in c/vegan. Calling all the people that the admins don't like 'obvious wreckers' doesn't seem weird to you?
Omg the ban was justified then because no one from CTH, CC or HB has ever said anything that could possible sound bad out of context.
Yeah, I don't get how someone could read those messages from after all those mods and users were banned and discussing it, and then claim that's proof they intended to wreck.
I mean yeah some of the messages are just people complaining but some people were really just keeping the struggle session going. A lot of people posting complaints from the other side were banned too. At this point the more important aspect was cooling everything off and then reassessing later what needs to be done. I think the admin response was pretty fair, like it still allows vegans to jerk in c/vegan but outside of that we should be engaging more in good faith.
I'm curious what context you think would make this better
As someone who has been on here as long as anyone, idc why people who have been on here for like a week are celebrating wrecking the site, just that they're doing it
Ah, I thought they came over from VCJ, my mistake
Won't edit any comments implying they didn't and actually just came as wreckers though.
I mean, they are currently wrecking, so I don't think I was too far off base, lol
How are they currently wrecking?
and if the answer is "by discussing a topic that makes me angry" then what is the distinction between discussion and wrecking anymore? We're in c/vegan, how could they have been wrecking this comm?
Lotf on the VCJ discord: I am wrecking
You: but how are they wrecking though??? Source???
Do you actually have a link to that? I've read this entire thread and that's the first time someone's said that, so apologies if I'm not terminally online enough to have seen a previous buried post.
Here's the post. Even if you frame it as "they are saying it deserves to die after this 'reactionary' struggle session", it's still an admission toward wrecking the site as it is because they're mad how things have turned out, which I would think is grounds for banning from the site as it's an attitude that could only make this continue to get worse.
I'm trying to stay out of this struggle sesh now as I think it's run its course, but I thought I'd share the post that highlighted a lot of the discord talk that I think is rightfully concerning.
Isn't that some kind of backwards justification for the bans then?
They're talking like this because they're all being banned for discussing the leftist ideology they believe in on an explicitly leftist site. So to point to that frustration and go "see, they're frustrated, since they're wreckers" feels very wrong.
They werent banned for "discussing leftist ideology" my friend.
They were, but in a way that made the other users angry enough to force the mods to ban them off the site.
Or do you think they came here to pretend they care about veganism and that's what you're saying?
No, they were spamming main with vegan struggle sessions, insulting other users by saying they arnt true leftists if they arnt vegan, calling non-vegan people names, spamming main with pictures of dog meat, drawing comparisons of the meat industry with the holocaust and slavery which they were told to stop doing because BIPOC users were uncomfortable with it, said indigenous people needed to be "reaccultured", belittled rape survivors by comparing them to cows that got artificially inseminated, and refused to stop doing any of these things so they were removed and banned.
What? The bans almost all followed from those chats and the posting of those chats here. They start off talking about their bans from the mod chat after fighting with other mods/admins about comparing the condition of animals to slavery or the holocaust.
Those discord chats say "well at least we killed the site", "I don't care if the site goes down", and admitting to bullying and baiting the userbase.
I'm not sure how that doesn't constitute wrecking behavior and attitudes
Linked in the first comment I made in this thread. It's from a series documenting what's been going on in the VCJ discord
This one right? https://hexbear.net/post/95305
I'm reading through these and they seem like the expected comments from users who were just banned from the site for discussing veganism. Frustrated and discussing how badly the admins have handled it.
There's a major difference between frustrated users who have been banned for participating in a site they wanted to join and forge a community in, and people who joined to 'wreck' like accusing Beatnik of pedophilia or spamming John Kerry.
If I'm being honest, I also think the whole thing was badly handled. I think if we're onboarding an outside community, there should be clear expectations about what is required to integrate them into the existing one.
I think the VCJ people thought the jerk was going to continue unabated and that they would be free to bully people into veganism, and why wouldn't they? Nobody said otherwise. And I think some of the admins were totally okay with this as well
I think the existing userbase thought that the VCJ people would be like the existing vegan community here, which always had a strong presence, but got along with everyone else.
A clear statement of expectations, and enforcing long-standing rules on courtesy and secretarianism could have avoided a lot this. VCJ people who weren't okay with being in solidarity with non-vegans would probably have by and large gone elsewhere and neither side would have experienced the need to have a knife fight to the death over the future of the site
How did you manage to get flexible enough to bend over backwards to defend this? Yoga? Pilates?
Wasn't this only considered wrecking to discuss veganism across the site like three days ago? You can't call it wrecking if there was no rule against it prior to that.
If they did it after, then ban them from those communities. Their histories don't show that though.
It would have been a lot clearer to give that as a reason in the mod log, because as it stands it looks like an immature admin just kicked someone they don't like.
Yeah I feel like there was some people purposefully trying to antagonize both sides of the dispute, I don't know if it was a coincidence that the K*rry posters showed up again right after
Kerry stands firmly against racist vegan liberals. Do encourage projects like community gardens that are practical, reduce meat consumption, and contribute to the food sovereignty of oppressed groups.
When it comes to irony, especially on the internet it's best to just take whatever anyone says straightforwardly as their earnest belief - whether they say it's ironic or not.
Context would be good, but on the surface that does look pretty reactionary. I would expect a user to be banned for that.
Feel like shit just want chamomile back. She was so well spoken and active, and the perfect advocate for veganism on this site.
She literally spam advertised said VCJ discord they admitted to being wreckers in. Good riddance.
Omnis come to c/vegan to bait/ban new VCJ people.
Omnis then go to VCJ 's own discord to try to bait/ban new VCJ people.
Nice. And by nice I mean pathetic.
While I think major mistakes were made with VCJ, chamomile contributed a lot to this site, and I was sorry to see her go
Oh I didn't know she was the one who banned me, that sucks I loved the posts she used to make on here :sadness:
You will always be executed by the people you agree 97% percent with, comrade.
"Anyone who disagrees with me or annoys me in any way is not a comrade"
When people talk about how unlikely a left coalition is in the US this is why, petty squabbles over the smallest disagreements
I didn't see them celebrate the death of leftist communities, I've seen one screenshot of a comment from the day 1 user about how the site became a big struggle session that led to them all being accepted and then immediately banned.
Is it unfair to imagine that they would discuss that offsite now that they've been pretty unfairly kicked from here?
Im so sorry you feel that way comrade. We hear you, after all, a 2 month old account with 1 comment would certainly know a thing or two about shit stirring.
As would all the other omni lurkers who have spent their past few evenings here on /c/vegan witch hunting ‘VCJ libs’.
:mao-clap:
Theres some major gaslighting going on in here by the pro VCJ people
Right, because once again omnis come into this comm and think they know everything about VCJ and r/vegan even though some of us have been in both for many years. But go off, VCJ are the gaslighters, seeing as a lot of VCJ people were banned, silenced, ratioed, etc.
Saying shit like this https://imgur.com/a/KzLEG96 is why they were banned, https://imgur.com/a/0UARthz and they wouldnt stop doing it, no other reason. Stop acting like it was just for discussing veganism.
Omnis brought up indigenous people as tokens and ridiculed, silenced, and ratioed BIPOC vegans, some of whom ended up banned. But no one cares about that because fuck vegans. Your take is clouded by your anti-veganism.
1 BIPOC vegan mod doesnt speak for the entire BIPOC community on here...
There wasn't only one, and way to miss the point... only BIPOC which agree with admin anti-vegan views are allowed, the rest are treated as trash and banned/tossed aside. It's not just mods, compare reactions to weenuk and LiberalTears.
I love how crazy the cognitive dissonance is with things like "We should include a NSFW filter on images of meat in food just to be inclusive to our comrades, but if some of our BIPOC comrades dont appreciate being compared to animals then they have to deal with it"
No one is comparing BIPOC themselves to animals stop strawmanning. The goal is to view issues from human-centric lenses and elevate animals moral considerations. Also when are you going to condemn the tokenizing of indigenous people by omnis? As if they're less than normal people and should be treated like white saviors treat them? Disgusting. Btw, From Aph Ko's book:
“[V]eganism isn’t just about kicking a meat-eating habit and getting some veggies into your diet. It’s a powerful rejection of a racist food system and a racist, cannibalistic politics that characterizes animals and nonwhite people as disposable and consumable. This is why anti-racist theory matters in our efforts to free animals. The goal isn’t just to get people to replace chicken with tofu (although that’s a great start). The goal is to get the public to understand why animals matter on a political and ethical level. The goal is to reveal how the current power structure relies upon anti-Black and anti-animal ideologies to strengthen itself.”
Those damn vegans coming here on this vegan comm and making pro vegan comments. How dare they?
Anyways let’s warmly welcome our day 1 account b12 rich comrades returning from hibernation just to share their wisdom to us vegans. They had only made 1 comment in the past 8 months but as soon as they heard about those nasty VCJ liberals they knew they had to sweep in and save /c/vegan
:kim-peace:
Im honestly really surprised you arnt banned yet, since all you do is go into other comms and be passive aggressive and also was in the discord with other wreckers.
Gonna post this here too, the VCJ mods were against left unity, and apparently have been banning "tankies" for months on their sub https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/lctkbn/friendly_reminder_to_any_new_sub_members_that/gm301mf/ Probably part of why they were so intent on hurting the place.
That's one comment of a person just saying 'tankies get banned' on r/vegan and it's supposed to be evidence
turns out the mods here were all shitlib wreckers and got banned for that reason
According to who? This whole thread is people just repeating this that apparently the admins told them, but what makes them shitlib wreckers?
Some of these people were here from the beginning of the site, some came from another leftist vegan community on Reddit to run a leftist vegan community here.
The fact that chamomile, dasheightmate, and whyesseff left the admin team over this makes me feel like it's a lot more than just 'they were shitlib wreckers'. Definitely something going on with how the admin team handled this.
Didn't TC sticky a post about supporting the vegans but also the anti-vegans lol
Screencaps came up to prove this, with mods rejoicing at wrecking. You can wade around the site to find it, otherwise it will probably resurface.
It's easy to deride a group of people as shitlibs because then you can justify any action done.
Exactly, it's 'the people we banned were libs, and they're libs because we banned them'
Seeing an entire modteam purged from the community they were supposed to be allowed to post in as their space is, in fact, a big deal.
But I guess because we all hate the vegans then it's fine to ban them all with no given reason.
What, three emojis isn't a good enough reason?
"😎👉👉" me, banning a day 1 user and the people that wanted to make a space for their group of leftists on a site that isn't Reddit
I'd respond but you've apparently been banned for commenting in this thread
Why do I still visit, damn
Just a lurker so this will probably be dismissed, but I expected more from this site.
They really just banned @24324564745364253q49 for 'shit stirring' for discussing this in this thread
Disbelief reading the responses in this thread as usernames get a 'banned' next to their names, then looking through their history and seeing nothing ban worthy
I think @pocket_tofu is still around they were posting 2 days ago, and @mine but it looks like they're inactive.
As the only mod left you have my support
:vegan-tofu: :fidel-salute:
Every carnist and omni apologist posting here is breaking the rules lol
But they'll just ban me if I enforce our rules so oh well
Modship with the inability to mod :deeper-sadness:
The illusion of power
Hey I unsubscribed from this comm but it still shows up on my frontpage anyway. Can y'all ban me?
I think you need to set your page so you're seeing posts from subscribed comms and not all
There's no mods, so *shrug*
Check to see if you have your front page sorted to All or Subscribed
