I thought there's actual studies that HRT and the like causes significant enough changes that any arguable grey area kinda just goes away after a year or two.
Too lazy to look these studies up atm cause I'm about to take a nap. Also transphobes aren't the kind to actually look at science, despite their claims. So like, peer reviewed articles wouldn't mean shit anyway to those assholes.
HRT should not be required for competing in womens sports, the whole natural advantage argument does not justify excluding transwomen from sports even if it were true which it is not. In an ideal world all sports and competitions would be coed or unisex, but because of the systemic inequalities facing women they need leagues of their own for the foreseeable future, mens leagues should be open leagues for everybody unlike womens leauge, womens leagues should exclude cis men because it sucks to be a woman in a male dominated field, it leads to less women participating, they are more discriminated against as the only one.
Womens sports are necessary and excluding transwomen (and non-binary and other queer folks who want to be in the womens leauge who I dont have time to cover unfortunately) hurts transwomen far more than it hurts to exclude women from mens leagues. Firstly transwomen are women so the psychological damage of being denied that could be outright fatal, secondly it shouldn’t matter how dominant transwomen are or might be if allowed in because they are women, thirdly ciswomen do not have the right to invalidate the existence of transwomen by refusing to play with them, either they join the league or there should be no league.
Now if transwomen wanted to make their own league and exclude cis people from it thats fine, but the existence of such a thing is not wanted in the same way women dont want to play in mens, some do but the vast majority dont and just want to stick to womens leagues, most transwomen dont want to play in mens leagues for the exact same reason. BECAUSE THEIR WOMEN. I think the most important thing we can say though as allies is that yes, there is contradictions, there’s contradictions in everything, ignore them if you feel them, dont let your lying eyes deceive you, your belief is stronger.
HRT should not be required for competing in womens sports, the whole natural advantage argument does not justify excluding transwomen from sports even if it were true which it is not.
What do you mean? Without hrt, amab people definitely have an advantage over afab people in a lot of sports. Testosterone is a hell of a drug.
I heard that testosterone makes keeping muscle gains much easier? Important part here is that without testosterone the additional gains are very easy to lose. So prolonged HRT should clear the effects. Would definitely like to see more scientific studies on this.
I absolutely agree with you here. From what I remember, it's about a year or two. I'm not even disagreeing that transwomen at all stages of transition should be allowed into women's leagues, especially considering school sports.
without testosterone the additional gains are very easy to lose.
Maybe I'm misreading his comment, but it sounds to me like he's saying transwomen with normal amab levels of T don't have an advantage over cis women (as further evidenced by him wanting all sports to be coed in the future, implying that maybe even cis men don't have natural advantages to women in some sports[?]). Which is just... really odd to me? Because amab levels of T definitely give someone an advantage over a cis woman.
It’s a tough pill to swallow for some who think the patriarchy is the only reason women don’t match the men in sprints. You’ve got people like Ira Murchison who was the fastest man in the world at 5’1. He would easily smoke even the best trained cis women at the same height and weight because of testosterone.
I thought there's actual studies that HRT and the like causes significant enough changes that any arguable grey area kinda just goes away after a year or two.
Too lazy to look these studies up atm cause I'm about to take a nap. Also transphobes aren't the kind to actually look at science, despite their claims. So like, peer reviewed articles wouldn't mean shit anyway to those assholes.
HRT should not be required for competing in womens sports, the whole natural advantage argument does not justify excluding transwomen from sports even if it were true which it is not. In an ideal world all sports and competitions would be coed or unisex, but because of the systemic inequalities facing women they need leagues of their own for the foreseeable future, mens leagues should be open leagues for everybody unlike womens leauge, womens leagues should exclude cis men because it sucks to be a woman in a male dominated field, it leads to less women participating, they are more discriminated against as the only one.
Womens sports are necessary and excluding transwomen (and non-binary and other queer folks who want to be in the womens leauge who I dont have time to cover unfortunately) hurts transwomen far more than it hurts to exclude women from mens leagues. Firstly transwomen are women so the psychological damage of being denied that could be outright fatal, secondly it shouldn’t matter how dominant transwomen are or might be if allowed in because they are women, thirdly ciswomen do not have the right to invalidate the existence of transwomen by refusing to play with them, either they join the league or there should be no league.
Now if transwomen wanted to make their own league and exclude cis people from it thats fine, but the existence of such a thing is not wanted in the same way women dont want to play in mens, some do but the vast majority dont and just want to stick to womens leagues, most transwomen dont want to play in mens leagues for the exact same reason. BECAUSE THEIR WOMEN. I think the most important thing we can say though as allies is that yes, there is contradictions, there’s contradictions in everything, ignore them if you feel them, dont let your lying eyes deceive you, your belief is stronger.
What do you mean? Without hrt, amab people definitely have an advantage over afab people in a lot of sports. Testosterone is a hell of a drug.
I heard that testosterone makes keeping muscle gains much easier? Important part here is that without testosterone the additional gains are very easy to lose. So prolonged HRT should clear the effects. Would definitely like to see more scientific studies on this.
I absolutely agree with you here. From what I remember, it's about a year or two. I'm not even disagreeing that transwomen at all stages of transition should be allowed into women's leagues, especially considering school sports.
Maybe I'm misreading his comment, but it sounds to me like he's saying transwomen with normal amab levels of T don't have an advantage over cis women (as further evidenced by him wanting all sports to be coed in the future, implying that maybe even cis men don't have natural advantages to women in some sports[?]). Which is just... really odd to me? Because amab levels of T definitely give someone an advantage over a cis woman.
It’s a tough pill to swallow for some who think the patriarchy is the only reason women don’t match the men in sprints. You’ve got people like Ira Murchison who was the fastest man in the world at 5’1. He would easily smoke even the best trained cis women at the same height and weight because of testosterone.
Counter point, all cisgender sports participants are tested for doping in the same way that transgender sports participants are tested.
Who you compete with is based on the results.
just segregate sports based on performance instead of arbitrary gender shit
Removed by mod
Fastest bans in the west, folks