So I'm really starting to wonder if I have autism, and I think you might see why.
Is there anything (book, youtube video, anything) on like... social norms for women/trans women? I have spent my entire life analyzing how I need to act as a guy and now I'm really struggling to understand where the boundaries are and what's expected of me. Some examples:
talking about genitals
I didn't know some no op trans women would want their genitals referred to as a clit, and that didn't even enter my mind as an option. What if I had said/done something that upset someone? (I call it a penis, she tries to correct me, and I don't understand and think too literally about it.) And like, if you're going to say "oh well how would you feel about someone doing X thing" this would never have come to my thought process. I never would have considered someone calling my penis anything else? Why would I be upset by that? And apparently a penis is different then a dick/cock? Its confusing and I don't want there to be more out there like this where I end up upsetting someone
Can I say I have a stupid girl brain in a jokey kind of way? I feel like I've heard some people say that about themselves, but I also feel like maybe people would see that negatively.
Literally what is up with calling people girls vs women. I am so confused
And like... expectations and how people will perceive me. I just don't understand and keep thinking but getting no where
You should read Gender Outlaw and then the Gender Accelerationist Manifesto to discover that gender is fuckin fake shit. I found I stressed a lot less about this stuff after my brain got reprogrammed by funny gender theory.
The label stuff, I mean "Why would I be upset by that?" You just read Fucking Trans Women right? Before I read that I hadn't considered this either, but people will use all kinds of labels for any part of themselves if it makes em feel good. A lot of the time the usual terms for assigned-male anatomy are very fucking associated with "man". Still my favourite Transfemme® Genital™ Label is "aubergine", I snorted.
As for the other stuff... I am The Autistic and I really relate to your utter bewilderment at the social/gender stuff, very real. Did you know that allegedly [citation needed] [sometimes] nodding your head at someone is a masc-gendered action???? Whereas I guess a small wave would be the femme move??? Expectations and perception of gender shit are so goddamn confusing as someone with autism. I have heard that many autistic people end up agender or sometimes none biney =)
I've always seen the "woman" vs "girl" thing as being a maturity marker, and sometimes dudes get misogynistic with it? But none of it makes any sense really. I try not to stress about it.
I had just pulled up the Gender Accelerationist Manifesto, I will add the gender outlaw to my reading list (yes I read theory, no not marx). I hope I can get less stressed the thoughts they don't stop
I once again did not explain myself well. I understand why someone would be upset now, but that was not my first thought. I had never considered calling it anything else.
So I knew nodding was masc, but I did not realize a small wave was femme. I have now made a mental note to start giving people small waves . I have definitely thought about the label non binary woman, but it is too confusing for me to really explain. But yes I could totally see autistic people doing that.
No none of it makes sense I am done with it all. Sounds like I might be over thinking it though.
Its not goin, I haven't said anything about it. I do wonder if autism would fit me better then avpd though. I should get my therapist to explain the difference.
Nice, it slaps! You should also read Marx tho Thoughts not stopping is tough...
Ohhh okay that's fine! Well, welcome to the wider world where labels are just labels and you can call things whatever cool stuff you want!!
Yeah that's what I did, lmao. I try to opt out of gendered shit as much as possible, Idk how that's going since I have a 1 in Perception... Being done with it is cool, overthinking is stressful.
I know I was just goofin, but your experience and thoughts do mirror mine a lot, so I'm kinda feelin that you mentioned autism yourself. Would def be worth looking into.
I wondered if that's how you would react. I should, I feel like a lot of things would make sense within that framework (like getting over stimulated/burned out)
I don’t like labels. Call me NB or whatever you want if I like it.
I definitely got ADHD and I got most of the ASD symptoms among other things, though I don’t have that much social difficulty? I just don’t fit in anywhere.
I was always seen as "mature for my age" but I never felt like I wanted to fit in either, especially around peers I didn't enjoy being around, I knew I was different to them and seen as a joke or weird to others. Being bullied and such didn't help either for how I looked in school and well life at home wasn't good either so I was alienated growing up and well when you leave school and have no friends it is hard to make new friends and I've spent more of my life alone than not.. it's just hard to find good friends irl
Labels are highly variable and can have different meanings per person, honestly I think you just gotta take em as they come and try not to stress. Ask for clarification, I do a lot.
Yeah, I'm in a weird space where I can pass as a woman pretty well but my unusual manner of dress (function over form, comfort cause autistic) and unusual demeanor sometimes throw people off, it's funny tbh. I think they see "Woman But Scary" which is not wholly inaccurate. I am pretty comfy causing Gender Problems!!
It's cool that you reached that conclusion on your own honestly, parsing things through the autism lens made my day to day a lot easier. Also there is a high commorbidity of trans and autism!!!
I have heard that many autistic people end up agender or sometimes none biney =)
Why can’t nuerotypicals see through the bullshit. I guess like ADHDers seeing through capitalism. Neurotypicals are silly. Being molded by society (Ik we’re all made by our material conditions).
Neurotypicals are FUCKIN silly!!! We are all the product of our material conditions, but that doesn't mean we are subservient to them the way neuronormos are =)
I have heard that many autistic people end up agender or sometimes none biney =)
The first time I heard about someone coming out as trans was not long after high school. A not-close friend came out as a woman and moved to California or something. I hadn't really talked with her since high school, so only heard indirectly from others. At the time, I basically knew nothing about trans people and this was at least a decade ago. Anyways, I was confused how she could be autistic and actually believe in gender enough to use a label like "woman". Wish I had known agender was an option back then.
I have spent my entire life analyzing how I need to act as a guy and now I'm really struggling to understand where the boundaries are and what's expected of me.
Interesting, I’ve personally never tried to conform or seem neurotypical, but I think I can tell other people’s silly gender roles?
I didn't know some no op trans women would want their genitals referred to as a clit
I think it pretty much functions as such at a certain point? People don’t want to be associated with labels used primarily by the “opposite” gender. Sex and gender are intertwined social phenomena and it can feel “cis-er” using certain terms.
Can I say I have a stupid girl brain in a jokey kind of way?
People generally don’t look down on people who self deprecate if it’s not excessive. Its fine.
Literally what is up with calling people girls vs women.
This one I get, at least in a personal way. Idk if it’s the ADHD or just being a minor or living in this society, but I’m scared of getting older and don’t like the words “woman” and “man.” They also sound bad and I don’t like gender. I like the sound of “girl” a lot better. It’s a cute word. It makes one feel young and like people care about thon.
I'm not sure if its quite trying to conform, I just don't want to accidentally upset someone. If I'm going to break a norm/expectation I'd like to know that so I can have an idea of what I'm doing and have a reason for it. I'm struggling to explain myself, sorry.
Maybe? At least for some people? I don't know I'm pre hrt I don't know anything. I guess that makes sense, especially if you've been on hrt for a while.
Okay, I'm glad that's how people would see it. I was worried maybe people would see that as being like misogynistic? Which isn't how I mean it at all but still
I know! Oh my god yes! I love the word girl! I just worry, again, that people might see that as being misogynistic or something. I feel like I've heard women my age complain about being called girls, but also other women calling themselves girls, and I love the word, but It is just confusing.
And what makes this all worse is the thought of there being more like these that I haven't thought of and maybe upsetting someone. I feel like I'm starting from scratch in some ways, like I've seen how people react to men (and me as a man) doing certain things but how will they react to me as a woman doing those things. How do you even be a woman. and then it obviously also gets wrapped up into fears of transphobia and people not seeing me as a woman, so what things can a cis woman get away with that I as a trans woman couldn't, and my god this is all so much
Maybe when I think of these things I should just post them here.
It’s ok, I’m not one to talk, but you’re overthinking it. Since you care to be perceived well, you probably will [ at least eventually]. I don’t know what it’s like to be a woman and I don’t know what I want to be, but we’re all just figuring things out as we go.
I guess that makes sense, especially if you've been on hrt for a while.
I know a girl who is pre HRT and calls that part her clit when she talks about herself and a girldick when talking about mine, just because that's the labels we're using for ourselves and are comfortable with. There's no universal nomenclature for this stuff, people go with different terms depending on what they're comfortable with and self ID just comes first. Labels aren't universal. We create this language for ourselves, to talk about things cissies have no words for, and want us to have no words for, and that means the use of queer labels is always something highly personal and subjective. In case of doubt, it's better to simply ask.
It kind of hurts me that I'm a trans person who doesn't get this.
We create this language for ourselves, to talk about things cissies have no words for, and want us to have no words for, and that means the use of queer labels is always something highly personal and subjective.
It sounds like a lot of over thinking. I'm autistic I over think and over analyse, always analyse everything all the time personally.. Can be stressful but try not to stress too much.
There are many people here who could help with some of your questions anytime c:
I'll parrot my wife and say read Gender Outlaw and Gender Accelerationist Manifesto. I grew up without any peers and pretty isolated so I didn't try to conform as a neurotypical, I never fit in nor tried to conform to being typically cis much personally just coasted existing knowing I was trans, having my body chnage at puberty but not having any real help nor knowledge on anything..
As for labels for you and labels for what others people use, you know this. As long as you respect other peoples labels then they shouldn't take offense at how you use yours.
There are many labels and how people use them can be fairly varied but as long as you are respectful then there shouldn't be any problem
Girls vs women is probably maturity/age label can depend on the individual
I don't apply either to myself
You're doing good just asking questions that's always good.
I meditate a decent bit and the thoughts still don’t stop. Just try to remember that thoughts don’t inherently mean anything, they’re just experiences that pop into your mind.
So I'm really starting to wonder if I have autism, and I think you might see why.
Is there anything (book, youtube video, anything) on like... social norms for women/trans women? I have spent my entire life analyzing how I need to act as a guy and now I'm really struggling to understand where the boundaries are and what's expected of me. Some examples:
talking about genitals
I didn't know some no op trans women would want their genitals referred to as a clit, and that didn't even enter my mind as an option. What if I had said/done something that upset someone? (I call it a penis, she tries to correct me, and I don't understand and think too literally about it.) And like, if you're going to say "oh well how would you feel about someone doing X thing" this would never have come to my thought process. I never would have considered someone calling my penis anything else? Why would I be upset by that? And apparently a penis is different then a dick/cock? Its confusing and I don't want there to be more out there like this where I end up upsetting someone
Can I say I have a stupid girl brain in a jokey kind of way? I feel like I've heard some people say that about themselves, but I also feel like maybe people would see that negatively.
Literally what is up with calling people girls vs women. I am so confused
And like... expectations and how people will perceive me. I just don't understand and keep thinking but getting no where
This post fucks
I think it's rad.
You should read Gender Outlaw and then the Gender Accelerationist Manifesto to discover that gender is fuckin fake shit. I found I stressed a lot less about this stuff after my brain got reprogrammed by funny gender theory.
The label stuff, I mean "Why would I be upset by that?" You just read Fucking Trans Women right? Before I read that I hadn't considered this either, but people will use all kinds of labels for any part of themselves if it makes em feel good. A lot of the time the usual terms for assigned-male anatomy are very fucking associated with "man". Still my favourite Transfemme® Genital™ Label is "aubergine", I snorted.
As for the other stuff... I am The Autistic and I really relate to your utter bewilderment at the social/gender stuff, very real. Did you know that allegedly [citation needed] [sometimes] nodding your head at someone is a masc-gendered action???? Whereas I guess a small wave would be the femme move??? Expectations and perception of gender shit are so goddamn confusing as someone with autism. I have heard that many autistic people end up agender or sometimes none biney =)
I've always seen the "woman" vs "girl" thing as being a maturity marker, and sometimes dudes get misogynistic with it? But none of it makes any sense really. I try not to stress about it.
So uh how's the autism dx goin'?
I had just pulled up the Gender Accelerationist Manifesto, I will add the gender outlaw to my reading list (yes I read theory, no not marx). I hope I can get less stressed
the thoughts they don't stop
I once again did not explain myself well. I understand why someone would be upset now, but that was not my first thought. I had never considered calling it anything else.
So I knew nodding was masc, but I did not realize a small wave was femme. I have now made a mental note to start giving people small waves
. I have definitely thought about the label non binary woman, but it is too confusing for me to really explain. But yes I could totally see autistic people doing that.
No none of it makes sense I am done with it all. Sounds like I might be over thinking it though.
Its not goin, I haven't said anything about it. I do wonder if autism would fit me better then avpd though. I should get my therapist to explain the difference.
Nice, it slaps! You should also read Marx tho
Thoughts not stopping is tough...
Ohhh okay that's fine! Well, welcome to the wider world where labels are just labels and you can call things whatever cool stuff you want!!
Yeah that's what I did, lmao. I try to opt out of gendered shit as much as possible, Idk how that's going since I have a 1 in Perception... Being done with it is cool, overthinking is stressful.
I know I was just goofin, but your experience and thoughts do mirror mine a lot, so I'm kinda feelin
that you mentioned autism yourself. Would def be worth looking into.
Labels are so hard to understand though
I wondered if that's how you would react. I should, I feel like a lot of things would make sense within that framework (like getting over stimulated/burned out)
I don’t like labels. Call me NB or whatever you want if I like it.
I definitely got ADHD and I got most of the ASD symptoms among other things, though I don’t have that much social difficulty? I just don’t fit in anywhere.
Story of my life
I don’t want to be stupid or immature or conformist enough to fit in, I could just use more irl friends that are interesting.
I was always seen as "mature for my age" but I never felt like I wanted to fit in either, especially around peers I didn't enjoy being around, I knew I was different to them and seen as a joke or weird to others. Being bullied and such didn't help either for how I looked in school and well life at home wasn't good either so I was alienated growing up and well when you leave school and have no friends it is hard to make new friends and I've spent more of my life alone than not.. it's just hard to find good friends irl
Same but better circumstances.
Labels are highly variable and can have different meanings per person, honestly I think you just gotta take em as they come and try not to stress. Ask for clarification, I do a lot.
Yeah,
I'm in a weird space where I can pass as a woman pretty well but my unusual manner of dress (function over form, comfort cause autistic) and unusual demeanor sometimes throw people off, it's funny tbh. I think they see "Woman But Scary" which is not wholly inaccurate. I am pretty comfy causing Gender Problems!!
It's cool that you reached that conclusion on your own honestly, parsing things through the autism lens made my day to day a lot easier. Also there is a high commorbidity of trans and autism!!!
I dress a little weird, but it’s very colorful and fashionable in an idiosyncratic way.
Banger
Yeah, I like [trans]fem NB/NB-girl. I usually just go neutral tho.
Why can’t nuerotypicals see through the bullshit. I guess like ADHDers seeing through capitalism. Neurotypicals are silly. Being molded by society (Ik we’re all made by our material conditions).
Neurotypicals are FUCKIN silly!!! We are all the product of our material conditions, but that doesn't mean we are subservient to them the way neuronormos are =)
transphobia?
The first time I heard about someone coming out as trans was not long after high school. A not-close friend came out as a woman and moved to California or something. I hadn't really talked with her since high school, so only heard indirectly from others. At the time, I basically knew nothing about trans people and this was at least a decade ago. Anyways, I was confused how she could be autistic and actually believe in gender enough to use a label like "woman". Wish I had known agender was an option back then.
Lol, lmao even =)
Interesting, I’ve personally never tried to conform or seem neurotypical, but I think I can tell other people’s silly gender roles?
I think it pretty much functions as such at a certain point? People don’t want to be associated with labels used primarily by the “opposite” gender. Sex and gender are intertwined social phenomena and it can feel “cis-er” using certain terms.
People generally don’t look down on people who self deprecate if it’s not excessive. Its fine.
This one I get, at least in a personal way. Idk if it’s the ADHD or just being a minor or living in this society, but I’m scared of getting older and don’t like the words “woman” and “man.” They also sound bad and I don’t like gender. I like the sound of “girl” a lot better. It’s a cute word. It makes one feel young and like people care about thon.
I'm not sure if its quite trying to conform, I just don't want to accidentally upset someone. If I'm going to break a norm/expectation I'd like to know that so I can have an idea of what I'm doing and have a reason for it. I'm struggling to explain myself, sorry.
Maybe? At least for some people? I don't know I'm pre hrt I don't know anything. I guess that makes sense, especially if you've been on hrt for a while.
Okay, I'm glad that's how people would see it. I was worried maybe people would see that as being like misogynistic? Which isn't how I mean it at all but still
I know! Oh my god yes! I love the word girl! I just worry, again, that people might see that as being misogynistic or something. I feel like I've heard women my age complain about being called girls, but also other women calling themselves girls, and I love the word, but
It is just confusing.
And what makes this all worse is the thought of there being more like these that I haven't thought of and maybe upsetting someone. I feel like I'm starting from scratch in some ways, like I've seen how people react to men (and me as a man) doing certain things but how will they react to me as a woman doing those things. How do you even be a woman.
and then it obviously also gets wrapped up into fears of transphobia and people not seeing me as a woman, so what things can a cis woman get away with that I as a trans woman couldn't, and my god this is all so muchMaybe when I think of these things I should just post them here.
It’s ok, I’m not one to talk, but you’re overthinking it. Since you care to be perceived well, you probably will [ at least eventually]. I don’t know what it’s like to be a woman and I don’t know what I want to be, but we’re all just figuring things out as we go.
I know a girl who is pre HRT and calls that part her clit when she talks about herself and a girldick when talking about mine, just because that's the labels we're using for ourselves and are comfortable with. There's no universal nomenclature for this stuff, people go with different terms depending on what they're comfortable with and self ID just comes first. Labels aren't universal. We create this language for ourselves, to talk about things cissies have no words for, and want us to have no words for, and that means the use of queer labels is always something highly personal and subjective. In case of doubt, it's better to simply ask.
It kind of hurts me that I'm a trans person who doesn't get this.
This is very touching to me
No, just do what makes u feel good instead.
It sounds like a lot of over thinking. I'm autistic I over think and over analyse, always analyse everything all the time personally.. Can be stressful but try not to stress too much.
There are many people here who could help with some of your questions anytime c:
I'll parrot my wife and say read Gender Outlaw and Gender Accelerationist Manifesto. I grew up without any peers and pretty isolated so I didn't try to conform as a neurotypical, I never fit in nor tried to conform to being typically cis much personally just coasted existing knowing I was trans, having my body chnage at puberty but not having any real help nor knowledge on anything..
As for labels for you and labels for what others people use, you know this. As long as you respect other peoples labels then they shouldn't take offense at how you use yours. There are many labels and how people use them can be fairly varied but as long as you are respectful then there shouldn't be any problem
Girls vs women is probably maturity/age label can depend on the individual I don't apply either to myself
You're doing good just asking questions that's always good.
Yea it really can be
I will try not to.
I see that, I should post more of these as they come to mind.
No help/knowledge really hurts, same here.
Thanks I'm trying really hard
I meditate a decent bit and the thoughts still don’t stop. Just try to remember that thoughts don’t inherently mean anything, they’re just experiences that pop into your mind.