WE BEAT THE NEWS MEGA
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It takes time!
Unfortunately, the thing I'm really envying isn't really a time thing. Hopefully I can fix it eventually though.
Edit: whatever, clearly I want to get it off my chest. Hope this doesn't upset anyone, I'm tired.
envy/dysphoria
envying trans men
I really fucking want hrt to fix my voice like it does trans men. But it won't, and never will. Just a lot of effort I have to put in, and I still very much doubt I'll get good results.
But also just in general I have a lot of envy and messes with me badly.
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I get it, so much. I’m a music teacher and gig around my local area a good bit. I take singing lessons with a trans man and often I try not to get into those thought spirals of wow I shouldn’t have to do this. A lot of our transmasculine comrades also have to do voice training to achieve they want. T does a lot of lifting, but not all of it.
Will say though, it took a long time, but once I started to really get the voice training, the pride you can take in this is the voice you want to have, not what was given to you, is simply immense. Honestly, i’m a puddle when folks tell me that I have a beautiful voice. Keep at it, be persistent and take breaks with voice training. Make it fun! A lot of times I would just belt some Phoebe Bridgers in the car and try to match her sound. You got this.
Last thing, there are very preliminary studies(from my vocal teacher) that estrogen does a physiological effect on the vocal system as it does across the body. I certainly feel that the nature of my voice has changed and not just due to voice training.
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Seconding this, you can have a ton of fun when training. I made audiobooks of marxist theory lmao.
:meow-hug: thank you. I'm sure I will be proud, once I get results. I'll try.
You got this!
Voice dysphoria
While it sucks that we don't have a way to change our voices without effort, I guarantee you that you can and will get better results than you expect if you keep at it. It can be very easy to get discouraged when it comes to voice training, especially with how slow it can be, I'm stuck in one of those slumps myself right now. But every time you do it it gets a bit better, and you can do a lot more with your voice than you probably realise.
Also, transmascs don't just get a perfectly passing voice. It gets deeper, sure, but pitch isn't everything, a lot of transmascs voice train to pass better just like we do.
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Thank you, that's really nice. I haven't started. I watched a few minutes of a video once, couldn't understand anything and just got frustrated and quit (story of my life tbh). I tried looking around here for resources but didn't see anything. Honestly I just hate my voice so much and I hate speaking to myself.
I hope I can.
Genuinely, how don't they? I thought T reversed all effects E has on your voice. I was just given this voice at T puberty.
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E doesn't have any effects on your voice to be undone. What T does is it thickens your vocal cords which makes your voice sound deeper. But there's a lot of differences between men and women's voices that aren't related to pitch and instead have to do with intonation, pronunciation, resonance, etc... Some of these can be helped by the vocal thickening, but others don't change at all. Like, just as an example, some of the differences between voices are literally caused by how big a person's mouth is and T isn't going to make your mouth bigger. This isn't even considering cases where a transmasc's voice doesn't get much deeper or they want it to go deeper anyways, which do happen just like how transfems sometimes don't get much breast growth or their breasts aren't as large as they want.
Thank you, I didn't realize that but it makes sense.
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My problem with the video was I just didn't understand the terms they were were using, I'd actually like to find more videos on it. (plus I was pretty prepared to be discouraged,
still am)Thank you for the advice, I will try that. I feel like I can't hum very high at all though
Yeah so um
singsongy vibes being coded femme while "monotone" is coded masc is ACTUALLY transmisogynistic ableism 
/joke but like maybe not actually?????? Idk?????? Is this a down with neurotypicals moment????
I expected to have this happen at some point, but this early?
and yea I think it is, I literally only have one voice I talk in
Anything else is forced.
Real, we have new theory being minted here folks
Fwiw it's not required to speak outside of monotone to get gendered femme. My wife and I are both very monotone, I asked and she last got misgendered like four years ago lmao. Her voice is perfect & beautiful
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Sorry, didn't mean to come off mad
the "oh an ableism!" thing occured to me just now lol. I didn't think you were pushing evil binary-gender norms yourself...
Good observation about this being an angloid thing though! And it's not wrong of course to point out societal trends or norms. You're not required per se to like, fight gender norms, you do whatever you please y'know? I think as long as you're cognisant of this stuff it's totally fine. Not tryna dictate people's lives or presentation... I GOTTA SAY THOUGH
Literally "Eventually you can't help but figure out that, while gender is a construct, so is a traffic light, and if you ignore either of them, you get hit by cars. Which, also, are constructs.", t. Nevada. Oh man it tickles me when people do this one gosh
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It kind of surprises me how many people have never heard of Orange Book tbh. But also, it's one of those things:
Nevada is hugely informed by Whipping Girl, which I like so far but it feels kind of regressive to me when Bornstein and Feinberg were doing cool and funny things with the gender binary two decades before, though its analysis of transmisogyny is still incredibly valuable.
The thing is, it's kind of a fucking stupid quote, that: gender is quite literally a social construct and it's not nearly as solid as a car or streetlight. It has wobbly inconsistent fake rule.s Like yeah, people are probably still going to perceive you as one of three, "man, woman, secret third thing" but you can also just... literally ignore the gender binary? I and my wife are living proof, you don't have to like, conform to some stupid societal standard of binary woman-ness to pass or be gendered correctly. Cisgender women don't even do it reliably. Hell, in a good society, everyone would just get gendered correctly anyway, we would ask people first. We need to abolish this shit, read the Gender Accelerationist Manifesto. Maria Griffiths is not that smart a person.
What is the thesis of this statement: 'conform to get gendered correctly'? Very unserious.
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Yeah I've never heard of that soz. I haven't read a meaningful amount of any of the Big Guys though I'm always planning to, I have special brainrot.
Uh I might be gender Stirner actually?
Fuckin... "de-articulation of reality"... It's not that GENDER IS A SP**K because it literally doesn't exist, it's a sp**k because it was made up (in its current form) by Europeans and sent everywhere else. For instance, "felt and perceived as no less real than something that has a concrete material existence of its own" yeah obviously they literally exist, the evidence is right there, but it's fake in the sense that it's almost entirely made up by humans, it's vibes-based.
Yeah well, who exactly do you think I am? What do you think helped me reach these conclusions to begin with? Could it be something like this maybe? I would like to know what "transcend it internally and socially" versus "retreat and de-articulate" mean here.
Uh I probably don't understand this line, but like "gender abolitionism" does not mean I'm confiscating people's genders, or even really dictating anyone else's genders period. Gender Accelerationist Manifesto?
Look at all of these metaphors... this is the starting point though right? I don't think there's an expectation that anyone will just throw Gender Outlaw at someone and they will be magically Freed, Idk. I had the first boilings of "well if gender is constructed then what even is a gender" like seven or eight years ago, it took a longass time to get here.
I am weird granted, but it also seemed really obvious to me, though: no one human trait, physical or otherwise, has an inherent gender, and therefore nothing is inherently gendered. Which really was a
moment from me.
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Don't think anybody actually said this, certainly I didn't but sure
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You're fine, I get misread and misunderstood frequently as well fwiw
I really appreciate that, I would not have picked up on women doing this on my own.
Everything is a time thing if you have enough time :P