Got to find a leftiest place.
Removed by modBanned for making bad (and kind racist) “xinnie the poo” jokes, lmfao
If they told the truth, how could they make a post about being a victim of the evil "lefties?"
Not sure why Winnie the poo is marked as racism when it specifically refers to one person and has nothing to do with that persons race
Not sure why rothschild conspiracies are marked as antisemitism when they specifically refer to one family and have nothing to do with that family's judaism
Not sure why $oro$ is marked as racism when it specifically refers to one person and has "nothing to do" with that person's race.
Really makes you think.
nothing to do with that persons race
Oh, really? Comparing an Chinese man to a yellow skinned character has nothing to do with race?
And calling the uhygur genocide bad is spreading nazi disinformation ? Hahahaha
I'm not going to look up the context, but if you're randomly shouting "uhygur genocide" in a thread about UN voting to end US embargo on Cuba, US and Israel oppose, that specific type of whataboutism does sound suspicious like parroting nazi disinformation.
It's spreading US disinfo, which might as well be the 4th Reich soooo yeah pretty much
You see that's kind of where the problem is. You can say there's a genocide and I can say "where" and that gives me the vibe of a genocide denier. I've looked for evidence, I've asked for evidence, but the best I've ever gotten is a satellite image of some prison in China, some (AI padded) mugshots with no context, and some thorough browbeating by very serious liberals.
Let me put this another way. I'm of Jewish descent. My great aunt was in a camp. I'm not trying to "deny" any genocides, but what should my standard of evidence be? Particularly when there is a clear incentive for western media to create false narratives about their enemies, and have done so before?
If you have something to present that I haven't seen, I and the other "tankies" are wide open to engage with it.
Pretend all you want that you're "just asking questions"
That's pretty much exactly the same as the Israeli linevibes of a genocide denier
doesn't change facts.
What facts! I'm still waiting for one. We can go round and round all day but until you show me something to center this on it'll be a waste of time. In 30 years even your ABC will quietly walk back their claims of genocide and I hope when that happens you will tell the people around you not to trust the same sources that lied to you.
You've already proven not to be interested in accepting evidence. So what more value is there in trying to provide any?
Lmao you projecting harder than Colin Powell saying there's wmds in iraq
Where is the evidence? I don't see any hyperlinks or citations. You didn't even name a person you're sourcing.
We deny the supposed "white genocide" too, you gonna be a pissy baby about that too?
Yeah, and if there was an actual genocide happening in China we'd be pissed about it.
If you deny something that's actually not a real thing, you're not a genocide denialist. So...no.
You're just completely ignoring the epistemological problem here.
Are you familiar with the case of the Nayira Testimony?
I'm still a proud leftist, but geez nothing has made me question that stance more than seeing how fervently the tankies deny genocides and defend aggressive warmongering—as long as the country perpetrating it is one that calls itself "communist", or is a successor to one that used to call itself communist.
If that were true then we'd all be falling over ourselves to defend Pol Pot instead of calling him a shit and a CIA puppet and not wanting anything to do with him.
See also the most common opinion on Gonzalo (yes I know there are Gonzalites, haven't seen them around here though).
how fervently the tankies deny genocides
wait did they deny the real ones or the made up ones?
Tankies on Lemmy like to pretend China isn't committing genocide against Uyghurs.
bud im going to sincerely tell you to re-evaluate this take. i don’t have the time to deconstruct it for ya, but the “uyghur genocide” claims are basically an astroturfed campaign by an evangelical christo-fascist named Adrian Zenz.
his offensive bullshit got amplified by the US because they're ramping up for a second cold war with China. there’s a lot you can be critical about with China if you want, but you should base it in reality.
i believe you’re leftist, you just have a bit more deprogramming to do when it comes to imperialism. that’s the hardest part for a lot of Americans since you’re trapped in the belly of the war beast.
you already got a lot of the way there by supporting Palestinian liberation. You don’t have to take my word for it either, just dig into some other sources about this topic.
@Awoo@hexbear.net is there any megathread resource on hexbear that debunks Zenz & his awful false genocide conspiracy theories?
On hexbear? I don't think so, lemmygrad has one though: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/216267?scrollToComments=true
I also strongly recommend https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/xinjiang as another option.
There were also a number of extremely large google docs projects but I don't have links to them, others might.
i don’t have the time to deconstruct it for ya,
Then you should take that time. Because
the “uyghur genocide” claims are basically an astroturfed campaign by an evangelical christo-fascist named Adrian Zenz.
needs damn citation. Especially in the face of these:
Counterterrorism and Preventive Repression: China's Changing Strategy in Xinjiang
In 2017–18, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) changed its domestic security strategy in Xinjiang, escalating the uurlse of mass detention, ideological re-education, and pressure on Uyghur diaspora networks.
Cultural erasure: Tracing the destruction of Uyghur and Islamic spaces in Xinjiang
The Chinese Government has embarked on a systematic and intentional campaign to rewrite the cultural heritage of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (XUAR). It’s seeking to erode and redefine the culture of the Uyghurs and other Turkic-speaking communities—stripping away any Islamic, transnational or autonomous elements—in order to render those indigenous cultural traditions subservient to the ‘Chinese nation’.
The Uyghur Genocide: An Examination of China’s Breaches of the 1948 Genocide Convention
This report concludes that the People’s Republic of China (China) bears State responsibility for committing genocide against the Uyghurs in breach of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (Genocide Convention) based on an extensive review of the available evidence and application of international law to the evidence of the facts on the ground.
If you're claiming these are false, invented or otherwise untrue, you need damn good evidence.
if you’re really leftist […]
Really? A No True Scotsman is really bad style.
https://direct.mit.edu/isec/article/44/3/9/12280/Counterterrorism-and-Preventive-Repression-China-s
https://newlinesinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/Chinas-Breaches-of-the-GC3-2.pdf
Zenz posting
https://www.aspi.org.au/report/cultural-erasure
ASPI
Really? A No True Scotsman is really bad style.
NTS is close to the opposite of what you are talking about. Asserting that words have definitions is not, in fact, a fallscy.
yeah, we’re not gonna agree on this and i don’t feel like spending time on a debate, especially since you’re downplaying american imperialism. have a good day, peace.
There totally aren't actual Uyghurs who have told their own stories or anything like that.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/13/why-do-north-korean-defector-testimonies-so-often-fall-apart
Just because someone says something doesn't mean it's true. Do you think cops ever lie when they testify?
Where is the violent rebellion? If a genocide is happening, the people being genocided always fight back violently. Where is it?
Oh, the narrative relies on Uyhgurs all being sheep who line up to be killed, huh. Strange how overtly racist that part is given how many "leftists" believe the narrative.
Ok, the Khmer Rouge of Cambodia committed genocide when they were nominally communist at the time. Is that good enough for you? It's the most noteworthy example I can think of. Actually maybe the Shining Path too, in Peru. I never liked them or their methods.
The supposed genocide in Xinjiang is not at all the same thing. There's no open warfare, rebellion, nothing to suggest what western nations are claiming is happening. The only evidence I've seen is that prisons exist in Xinjiang, and their prisons are much like prisons anywhere else on the world. All other evidence I've seen comes from one specific person, the deluded mind of Adrian Zenz. A man who cannot speak Chinese, has never lived in China, and he's one guy.
Horseshoe theory only makes sense if you don't think about it for even one second.
So, not surprised it makes total sense to you
Horseshoe theory doesn't make sense. That's the thing.
Until suddenly you start seeing people who call themselves leftists denying genocide. Which is something we usually think of as being a quality of the far-right.
(The obvious solution here, of course, is that these people who call themselves leftists...aren't. Because if leftism is about equality, there's nothing equal about subjecting a people and preventing the continuance of their culture.)
99% of the time, calling someone a genocide denier is just burden shifting. Genocide is a crime; you have to prove it happened, you can't simply assert it did and then smear anyone who asks for evidence.
We have spy satellites that can read a license plates and genocides, by their very nature, leave a lot of evidence. If there were a genocide in Xinjiang we'd have what we see in Palestine: tons of documentation in a wide variety of news outlets about crimes against civilians and actions like UN officials resigning in protest.
Where are leftists denying genocide? I've never heard a leftist deny a genocide, ever.
The reason horseshoe theory only makes sense if you don't think about it is because it is entirely and completely surface level. A good recent example is that both the far left and the far right want to end the country of Isreal. So if you hear someone on the far left say "I don't think Isreal should exist" and someone on the far right say "I don't think Isreal should exist", if you don't think about it, you would conclude "wow they want the same thing! HORSESHOOOOEEE!!!"
When the reality is that the right doesn't want Isreal to exist because they hate Jews and don't want Jews to exist, and the left doesn't want Isreal to exist because Isreal is a genocidal apartheid settler colonial state. The left's viewpoints have nothing to do with the ethnicity of the people who live in Isreal, and the right's viewpoints have nothing to do with the actions of the country of Isreal. Therefore any actions taken by the right or the left towards their statement of "I don't think Isreal should exist" would be entirely and completely different. Although they're saying the same thing on the surface, literally 1 second of thought is all it takes to realize "oh those are actually entirely different things."
So if you think a leftist is denying a genocide somewhere and you start crying "MUH HORSESHOE THEORY" it just means you haven't spent any time thinking about it. I bet if you did think about it you'd learn something.
But of course, if you define "genocide" as "thing that I'm willing to politically accept is a genocide", it's very easy to pretend someone isn't a genocide denialist.
Aren't you just doing the opposite [insert whatever logical fallacy]? The Holocaust is established historical fact with strong consensus among historians. Most of the other relevant alleged genocides that alleged tankies are allegedly denying have a much different degree of geopolitical contention and consensus.
What is the purpose of denying the Holocaust? Outside of the middle-east, it's almost always a white supremacist or antisemitic agenda.
What is the purpose of denying the Uyghur genocide? There's no equivalent incentive. Nobody is denying the Uyghur genocide on the basis of race ideology. The narrative of the Uyghur genocide is purely a construct of NATO Imperialist/Colonialist rhetoric to the tankies. They absolutely do not deny the genocide for the purpose of advancing a genocidal agenda.
Horseshoe theory does not apply.
Yeah I wanted to see something like this. Every supposed genocide committed by communists, outside of maybe Cambodia, is very contentious among historians at best. The supposed Xinjiang genocide is not regarded as a factual occurrence by half of the world, and the fiercest proponents of an existing genocide are what ...the CIA? NATO leadership? The same countries that endorsed the Iraq War? That right there should be enough to raise eyebrows. The lack of meaningful eyewitness testimony or you know, photographs or records should be something else. In 30 seconds I can watch footage of Israeli soldiers commiting war crimes and the only Chinese equivalent videos 've seen look like fairly routine prisoner transfers. Which is not great, don't get me wrong, but having prisoners or treating prisoners unfairly or with cruelty is not genocide, nor is it some unique quality for a socialist country to have, or countries in general.
The same people and organizations that talk about that genocide claim that communism and wokeness are causing a white genocide worldwide. Do you believe that too? It's fine if you do, I'm just curious if you pick and choose what you believe based on literally nothing, or if you're at least consistent with the propaganda you consume.
I'm just trying to understand your level of acceptable evidence for what genocide is. If it's "literally anytime anyone says the word genocide, it is a genocide no questions asked" then that's fine. If that's the case then lots of people call lots of things genocide all the time for nonsensical reasons, and by your measure almost everyone is a genocide denier. If it's "I listen to right wing propaganda when it makes me feel good and confirms my racial biases and ignore it when it doesn't" that's fine too and would be a good thing to know about yourself.
the only thing 'astroturfy' is how liberals will roll up acting like they're 'the most leftist' and then try to draw a line where America's state enemies are categorically evil, rather than just fucking organizing against the real evils happening where we all live.
maybe if it doesn't make sense you should fucking find out about it instead of retreating into ignorance
There was a 2020 statement to the UN, read by a Cuban representative, speaking on the behalf of 45 other countries who were endorsing China's policy on Xinjiang. Among those countries are Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Belarus, Syria, Venezuela, Yemen, Sri Lanka, Palestine (this one is important), and Myanmar.
These places are completely disparate in terms of geography and state ideology, yet they all came together to very solidly proclaim China's policy in the region does not constitute genocide. Palestine and Yemen in particular seems very egregious to me, because if anything those should be aware of what an ethnic genocide looks like, and yet they endorsed Cuba's statements on China. Furthermore, China's Xinjiang program ended in 2019 as far as I know. This is part of the statement those nations endorsed:
"China has undertaken a series of measures in response to threats of terrorism and extremism in accordance with the law to safeguard the human rights of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang. There was no single terrorist attack in Xinjiang in the last three years. People of all ethnic groups enjoy their happy life in a peaceful and stable environment. China maintains openness and transparency by, among other things, inviting more than 1,000 diplomats, officials of international organizations, journalists, and religious persons to visit Xinjiang who witnessed Xinjiang’s remarkable achievement."
At a certain point maybe you need to look in the mirror and ask if it's yourself who's clouded by ideology in this matter
Since you brought up Yemen, it's interesting to compare Google image results for the Yemen genocide and the alleged Uyghur genocide. Search the former and you get pictures of destroyed towns, columns of refugees, mass graves, and starving people. But Google "Uyghur genocide" and it's nothing but pictures of protests in Western countries. You would think that the Uyghur people, being much wealthier than the Yemenese and receiving much more attention from Western journalists, would have an easier time getting those pictures out there.
Hm, so you're saying that every political faction "denies genocide and defends aggressive warmongering"? Could it perhaps be that every faction gets accused at one point or another of genocide and aggressive warmongering, and it's your responsibility as a political person to use your brain to figure out who is lying?
I'm a leftist who isn't a tankie. I don't much care about China and I think the struggle for liberation can only be fought where we are at. I don't uncritically accept the propaganda and the worldview of the state I seek to destroy at face value. Thus I do not accept claims about "genocide" committed by the US' main rival without good evidence. Having principles and critical faculties are important to my politics. What about you? What makes you, someone who identifies liberals as "center-left," significantly different from them? Your conditional support for Palestinian liberation?
like, "such and such country is committing genocide and covering it up!" is a very serious claim! fortunately, it is also very incredible. it's improbable that mass murder of a population can go almost totally unnoticed except for reports and evidence from sources that are demonstrably untrustworthy. Just knowing who Adrian Zenz is should be making you suspicious unless you've completely disabled your bullshit detectors.
Thus I do not accept claims about “genocide” committed by the US’ main rival without good evidence
It's very easy to say this, because it means you can just reject any evidence to the contrary as "not good" or "biased".
Separating children from their parents. Raising them to be assimilated with the majority culture. Clamping down on their expression of their culture. These are all acts of genocide.
The most untrustworthy source here is the Chinese government themselves. Any report from a country should be treated with scepticism, but none more so than when that country clamps down on the free press.
We have so many reports out of Xinjiang. Leaks from people in the province itself. Reports from the family of people there. Evidence inferred from satellite imagery and what information is publicly available from the Chinese government. There's just no denying it. You can choose to pretend China's doing nothing wrong if you like. I hope you sleep well, knowing you're defending genocide.
It's very easy to say this, because it means you can just reject any evidence to the contrary as "not good" or "biased".
Accusations of genocide aren't a fucking game. It's either happening or it isn't. Either the evidence is good or the evidence is bad (and all evidence is biased) So give us some good evidence.
What evidence would you accept? Because you act as though you've already convinced yourself it's not real and wouldn't accept any evidence to the contrary. What, precisely, would convince you that you're wrong, if firsthand accounts aren't good enough?
How about firsthand testimony that can be corroborated. If you've ever been in court for anything, it's standard to not simply take whatever story you hear at face value.
So point to a story you're saying is true, then show how it can be corroborated (by video? by documentation?). Show how there is no realiatic alternate explanation. Explain how your corroborated story amounts to genocide, and isn't just a story about someone being arrested, for instance.
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/10/1005263835/new-report-details-firsthand-accounts-of-torture-from-uyghur-muslims-in-china This is the first result when I typed in "uyghur firsthand account"
I'll read it when I get home in a few hours unless you have another source(s) you'd prefer.
"Freedom of the press" is a joke. I can see what our "free press" is doing with the butchery of Gaza. At a certain point you have to accept that your understanding of the facts is not, and has never been unmediated.
Here is a good starting point if you want to understand the ways this has happened and more critically evaluate it.
“Freedom of the press” is a joke
Yes, I know that's what China believes. That's why it's so important.
I've invited you to learn literally anything about this subject before commenting further. Not much else I can do you help you.
Our prudent and judicious public broadcasting institutions
VS
Their tyrannical censored state propaganda centers
“All over the world, wherever there are capitalists, freedom of the press means freedom to buy up newspapers, to buy writers, to bribe, buy and fake 'public opinion' for the benefit of the bourgeoisie.”
Read theory
Can you make a coherent argument from their position, or do you not understand your own boogeyman?
I sleep fine. Sometimes I jerk off first.
Part of developing mental maturity is coming to understand that other people might genuinely believe in a differing set of facts from you. And my facts are based on evidence.
As a 5 eyes resident you seem like you're pretty supportive of the violent authoritarian USian regime.
you seem like you’re pretty supportive of the violent authoritarian USian regime
Where, precisely, did I suggest that at all?
iirc the person you're replying to is an anarchist not an ML, so they're not a tankie, unless your definition of tankie is just "anybody who isn't extremely anti-china and believes literally whatever the same press that told us that North Korea had claimed to find a unicorn, that the cuban government was committing a genocide within its own borders and is currently doing apologia for a real genocide of innocent muslims"
I have a satellite photo of Zagorath genociding Tupac and unless he accepts this evidence he is a genocide denier.
Except that I'm a Swiss socialist and that I'm taking my sources from very left wing ONG that I work with ?
getting your sources from a "very left wing NGO" how about actual socialists if you're a 'socialist.' I get that you're
SwedishSwiss, we have more people in prison doing forced labor in America than in these 'genocide camps' so it's really hard to take people seriously when they act like 'genocide' in China should somehow be at the forefront of what leftists in the west concern themselves with.
if i had to guess, probably. it's somewhat of a plausibly-deniable dogwhistle for 'asian = yellow'. not saying you meant that, just that I don't blame the mods for their hypervigilance here
Oh wow. I honestly didn't thought about that. I may be an ass sometime but... not like that :o !
i wonder why western redditors found a depiction of an asian president as a fat yellow bear and a black president as a character called Tigger so funny 🤔 definitely no racism here, no sir
defending that racism is so transparently in bad faith holy shit
Wow, look at this racism denial from the same person who was criticizing Tankies for genocide denial.
"The meme was started by a Chinese person, therefore it can't be racist" is just a new veneer on "black rappers use the n-word in music, therefore it's not racist if I use it."
There's no racial component to it at all
That's a pretty bold statement to make. Have you seen the west?
the Chinese government decided to crack down on it hard
Deleting some memes from Weibo isn't a "hard" crackdown, westerners just want to pretend it is and for some reason still care ten years later.
Have you considered that the meme might have different impact coming from a Chinese person ribbing their leader than a white westerner echoing it? The former might be "light ribbing" but the later is racist. Who says a thing matters significantly on whether its ok to say. You know this very well because I'd hope you'd know that its not ok for white people to use the soft r n word even though many black people use it.
Taken very seriously, and applied very selectively. That mod team loves to put their thumb on the scale.
So if someone say Christianism sucks because it's a religion and I respond by saying all religions sucks, is that whataboutism ? Excuse me if I just think that it's better to criticize everyone than a specific group of person...
Not agreeing with the system of having nations is one thing, but you can’t just not believe they’re there
Nations are a sociological formation that objectively exist in the world. Even fucking fascists have better education than you, and not because their education is impressive.
I checked and you weren't banned for mentioning Tienanmen square, no one cared. You were temp banned (30 days) for using racist language, holocaust denial, and promoting the Uigur concentration camp conspiracy theory and lying about what your sources are.
Nope. It was about mocking the Chinease president, saying that Russia and China were dictatorships and yes calling the Uigur genocide, without denying any other genocides... you're the one that deny it and lying like a politician or a government drone. You don't have any idea what my sources are. That's pathetic...
You going to provide any sources? Are those sources going to be tied to Adrian Zenz?
Are those sources going to be tied to Adrian Zenz?
Narrator: they were
www.nchrd.org/
https://www.amnesty.be/campagne/discrimination/ouighours-victimes-crimes-humanite/ouighours
https://unric.org/fr/rapport-onu-ouighours-chine/
So.. relying on Zenz, RFA, or Amnesty international, known for the famous "saddam is killing babies in incubators" lie to support a US campaign of genocide.
Huh.
Can you find any reports of an increase in terrorism in the area? Groups being discriminated against so heavily will always resort to violent self defense.
Can you find any reports of mass refugees? Groups being targeted by genocide always try to flee to other places where they won't be targeted.
Oh Okay sorry China is a country ruled by nice friendly people that loves freedom of speech, culture, people. You should go live there. Also Putin is as nice as a koala and just want to save babies. You can go back to sleep. Thank you for enlighting me.
You know, China can have problems without being comically evil, right?
I have friends who immigrated from China or live here part time, it is just a normal country. Maybe free-er and more democratic in some ways than here, and worse in some other aspects.
✅ casual homophobia
✅ owns a gender-affirming vehicle
✅ accusing other people of being like Trump
✅ 'canadian'
to be frank I don't really trust your ability to assess the truth of anything
The moment liberals face any push back on their accusations, out come the homophobic insults.
Can you find any reports of an increase in terrorism in the area? Groups being discriminated against so heavily will always resort to violent self defense.
Can you find any reports of mass refugees? Groups being targeted by genocide always try to flee to other places where they won’t be targeted.
yes i too use the legit source of 'MAN SENT BY GOD TO DESTROY CHINA'
very very academic and objective
So you weren't banned for "mentioning Tiananmen Square." You were just lying about that.
Would you be surprised to find out there weren't WMDs either? If you want an extensive set of answers, I'd recommend using the search feature, but secondarily there are many different "askX" comms to source it from
If you're so knowledgeable about the situation that you can be so certain that it's happening that you consider doubt invalid, why don't you know how to spell Uyghur?
Palestine and Yemen don't believe it either, after sending delegations. You know, two Muslim majority countries that are experiencing genocide.
You have access to Reddit backend? I am curious if you can see why I was banned, as I have an idea but they deleted my comment and said I was banned from it /r/MuuaadDib is my account. Just curious, if not no big I was on there for a long time to be banned for such a silly reason. Cheers! To be honest this smaller community seems a little better thus far.
Every single time I see these complaints about getting banned I look through the modlog and find them saying something racist or transphobic. This isn't an exception.
lol you casually make racist "winnie the pooh" jokes like any random right winger.
I'll ignore the fact that you're lying about what got you banned for this response.
Even the western far right media has moved on from the original Tiananmen narrative, which it acknowledges was false. The actual events played out more accurately to exactly what China has always said they were.
The only people still pushing the original shit are anticommunists and racists because it's more convenient to their goals to perpetuate it.
Try actually listening and learning the actual facts from people in the left and then you won't run into this problem. You're getting banned and ridiculed by actual leftists because you're further right and less educated on this topic than the fucking media of far right conservative tories ffs.
This is what happens when you get your political education from fucking reddit.
Learn properly: https://archive.ph/24zzF
See this is just a complete refusal to engage with the topic or learn anything. Have you grown as a human being at all in the last 10 years or did you just decide one day that you have achieved political nirvana and there is never anything else you need to understand or expand your knowledge of? Your refusal to actually learn anything is a deep character flaw and a huge personal failure.
I'm going to repost something from @Alaskaball@hexbear.net, maybe you'll read some of it.
The Chinese description of the events leading up to and the day of the protests are very probably the closest thing to accurate that exists.
Numerous military buses, trucks, armored vehicles, and tanks being burned by the “peaceful” protesters. Sometimes the soldiers were allowed to escape, and sometimes they were brutally killed by the protesters. Numerous protesters were armed with Molotov cocktails and even guns.
The official report of the Chinese government from 1989 (translated here) shows that more than 1000 military and police vehicles were burned by rioters. And 200+ soldiers and policemen were murdered. Just imagine how much restraint the military and the police had shown.
Wait, how could the protesters kill so many soldiers? Because, until the very end, Chinese soldiers were unarmed. Most of the times, they didn’t even have helmets or batons.
What exactly happened in Beijing in 1989 that lead to this bloody affair?
The answer lies with two key figures: General Secretary Hu Yaobang, and Ambassador James Lilley.
Hu Yaobang was a member of the communist party of China and was one of the three major rightist-reformers that set China on the path its on today, the other two being Zhao Ziyang, and Deng Xiaoping respectively. Hu Yaobang as a reformer was also a spokesman for the intelligentsia and by the end of his life was well-beloved by the youth of China (we're talking below 30 here, folks) therefore when he passed away the youth of China organized public grieving events with the largest occurring in Beijing. This is to say if Hu didn't die from old age that year, none of this would've happened that year. This is to also say this event had nothing to do with "freedom" or "democracy" or whatever pigshit your favorite rush limburger propagandist spoon feeds you, it was a funeral service that was hijacked to unseat the Chinese government - which so coincidentally is a speciality of the agency the second person we're talking about.
Ambassador James Lilley, the son of an american expat oil executive for Standard Oil, was a CIA agent operating in east Asia from 1951 to 1981 with little officially known about him (I know for a fact he's fucked around Korea and Laos, so it's not a stretch to say he's likely been involved with every conflict that occured during his official career). In his "post" CIA career he's acted as a diplomatic liason to the provice of Taiwan, a teacher to future state department ghouls, and "helped" South Korea end its military dicatorship by helping the military win the election "democratically", and abruptly five days after the death of General Secretary Hu Yaobang James Lilley was appointed as the US Ambassador to China by also former CIA ghoul and president of the United States George H. W. Bush. What an astounding coincidence.
That's the difference with you. I learn in universities, reading reports and works. Not on echo chambers on the web. I just like to argue with people on the internet in a language I don't master while I'm in the train.
Unlike you I actually have 2 degrees. If you engaged with this topic in this way in a university the history professor would fail you.
You don't give a fuck about sources, evidence, or anything. You are utterly closed to new information. You are one of the most deeply propagandised people on the planet, from the most deeply propagandised population on the planet.
How the fuck are the sources they used "echo chambers on the Web?"
What are your sources then? Or are you just trying to invoke the idea of being so well read to cover up the fact you're full of shit.
Literally the US Army has published videos that claim they were involved in the Tiananmen protests.
Wall Street Journal, a notorious Hexbear front to push sissypee lies
Except your source is some site named worldaffairs.blog
Let’s just look that up… yep about what I expected, conspiracy drivel
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/world-affairs-blog-bias/
It's literally quoting WSJ. Some liberal thinktank complaining about it is not relevant, even less so a think tank so vapid as to tacitly equate centrism with objectivity.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-CJB-22543
she also cited and linked to all the original sources which the worldaffairs site used, packed full of famous CCP-shill state-owned-media sources like: the BBC, Reuters, the Washington Post, CBS, the Wall Street Journal, etcetera
You all must be the biggest fucking rubes on the planet if you're seriously citing a site which claims that CNN has a left wing bias
How do you function? Do you just lose money on scams 24/7? (donating to your political parties counts)
I have a lot of issues with sources I know are right wing because they often spin things in ridiculous ways. Despite that, there's so much censorship on the internet the only places to look are on the fringes or in other languages.
Would it make you feel better if I cited a blog that takes lines from other sources out of context to change the message?
I literally don't care what you cite, I'm just calling out the blog you're citing now as ridiculous.
I think ultimately your problem is that ideas that were normalized to you on
just don't hold up to scrutiny, and even the academic neoliberal consensus on most of these issues is different from what predditors treat as self-evident. Enculturation is like that, and I wish you a speedy recovery.Or that I'm not influenced by extremist narrative one side or the other.
Congratulations then, you're the pinnacle of humanity, unburdened with living among ideology like the rest of us sloppy piggies.
i love how moderates think their position is correct because they've whitewashed it to hell
Nobody doing yellow peril shit in English to an audience of Euro-Americans is doing it because they have any genuine principled criticism of Chinese self-governance. If they did, they’d be talking about it to actual Chinese people living in China instead of seeking out other white liberal nationalists to hype each other up about “civilizing the Orientals”.
OP link us to the comment where you merely mentioned Tiananmen square and got banned for it
Further down, but it seems it was more about mocking the president and saying that China and Russia were dictatorships. Maybe...
We've already seen the modlog and know you were banned for racism.
The ones where you called Xi a yellow animal. Also if you aren't Asian shut the fuck up with "oh but it isnt racist". I'm part Asian and that shit is racist.
I have to admit I probably would have read yellow in that context to mean 'cowardly' rather than with racist connotations but I can see how it could be taken that way.
I wasn't saying that about the color... Asians aren't even yellow... wtf is your stuff about saying Chinese are yellows ??? Is that an American thing ?
Asians are depicted and referred to as yellow in racist caricatures.
In OP's defense, is it possible that they were referencing the Xi as Winnie the Pooh meme? Pooh is in fact yellow and is ostensibly an animal.
I dunno, I wasn't there for the larger context, but it seems at least possible that this is what happened.
I will take my downvotes now.
"In their defense westerners love to share a meme about an Asian man being yellow. Maybe it's not racist. "
Are you telling me you have never in your life heard the term "Yellow Peril"?
In other parts of the post OP claims to be the pinnacle of political understanding, yet is ignorant on very basic racist terminology used in our political history. Iconic.
you're bad at this
racists try not to be stupid pieces of shit challenge (impossible)
You're free to check the modlog, rather than lying that you were "banned for mentioning Tiananmen Square"
You got to be a leftiest to be in a leftiest place, and you're clearly just a reactionary.
Just got site banned for telling an IDF simp psycho, that I hope he remembers enjoying the children dying when the karma hits.
I got banned from lemmyworld news for being anti israel so I think im way more based
and Zagorath was a patsy.
