within the logic of the religion/Sharia it is very clear that they take the ‘rights’ of women seriously.
Thats the same conclusion I've come to in the very little I've studied Islam and Sharia. Disagreements aside, it's a rather interesting concept to learn of.
She finds certain protections guaranteed to her extremely liberating
If it's not like personal stuff, do you have any examples? My knowledge of islam is super shallow and I'm curious now
Yeah, for example, she finds so much work today extremely alienating and unsatisfactory. She doesn't like the way jobs take and take and take from people's lives. Go figure, she has old fashioned attitudes on the division of labor, but she says it breaks her heart how many kids are basically raised by schools and screens instead of having a full time parent involved in their education and spiritual guidance. That's something leftists agree with even if we don't then point to gender based division of labor as the solution. Capitalist economics have appropriated and commodified more of our time, men and women alike, and highly alienated us from the essential acts of care necessary to make rich community life possible. Sharia dictates that it is a man's job to financially provide for a family, and a woman's to guide the household and children's education, and both are essential to human flourishing. My contact talks about how the women in her family that stuck with old fashioned norms had rich social lives and acted as the glue/center of organization for the community/family's social life. Apparently, pre-nuptual agreements are becoming more and more common in Islamic countries where women are insisting that that part of the marriage contract is enforced because they so hate being forced to go out and work some alienating job.
Again, I can acknowledge that the ideology is problematic for other reasons, but it is fascinating to see how someone finds such a restrictive ideology liberating in a certain sense.
but within the logic of the religion/Sharia it is very clear that they take the ‘rights’ of women seriously
Lol yeah that's what traditionalists in general believe that too. Within their "logic" women are better off in the house taking care of children and cooking and "forcing" them to not be married to one man from the age of 16, enter the workforce, study etc is "destructive" to women and contrary to their nature. Extremely patriarchal societies have all sorts of ways to justify it.
Well she's a PhD in economic history so you're already embarrassing yourself with chauvinistic assumptions.
Edit: Misunderstood what the other comrade meant - they are not making chauvinistic assumptions. Cleared up below.
"study etc is “destructive” to women and contrary to their nature."
Maybe I mistook your point - but it seemed like you're making broad swipes at Islam here, and in recent conversations with my contact that's exactly the kind of misconception she deeply resents.
Rereading your comment, maybe you were referring to just traditionalists in general?
Maybe I mistook your point - but it seemed like you’re making broad swipes at Islam here,
I wasn't talking about her (I saw that you said she is an academic partner of yours so I knew that clearly she didn't think that) or Islam specifically. I said that it's an attitude that various patriarchal traditionalists hold, including many Muslims but that varies a bit by country and by person. My point was that it's not new for traditionalists to "care" for women's rights. Especially when it comes to women who live in very patriarchal societies and have internalised that, they have to think it is somehow good for them. My point is that it doesn't make it any less patriarchal. It's just how these sorts of systems perpetuate themselves.
Oh, yeah we'd be in agreement there, my bad for misunderstanding, I'll edit. But it's just fascinating to me that such institutions do serve needs of communities, and it makes sense to me now that given the choice between the alienation and exploitation of souless jobs for some ghoul and oppressive but spiritually significant social roles, someone would choose the latter.
I'm pretty interested in how the left can better craft and explain narratives that fulfill that human need for meaning. While it may seem abundantly clear to us who are already radicalized, so many people struggle with the contradiction between capitalist alienation and their need for spiritual fulfillment, and they see reactionary institutions as the only outlet. While we can of course be critical of them, we must recognize that they are meeting needs/addressing certain problems, and if we're going to persuade people effectively we'll need to be prepared to meet/explain how leftism satisfies that need too.
and it makes sense to me now that given the choice between the alienation and exploitation of souless jobs for some ghoul and oppressive but spiritually significant social roles, someone would choose the latter.
They don't really make a choice. It's what people are brought up into. Few people "choose" to go there. Some do but it isn't the norm. It's not easy either to break out of that habit, or to get into the habit. Not to mention other dynamics at play.
That's all certainly true but not what I was trying to convey. I'm trying to figure out how to better reach those people by understanding the need it fills for them and how it fills it. Part of that means understanding the religion or ideology on its own terms, that way we can better speak to and understand the people that are locked within that framework.
I guess I'd liken it to the contemporary cultural anthropological method of investigation.
Man I thought it was funny when he said he lost all his friends because he stopped jacking off but then he dropped that bit about converting to Islam! What a ride. Also, no idea what all those awards mean but what the fuck man?
I lost my shit when he said not cranking his hog made him hate women so much he wanted to see them in hijabs. Like holy fuck I get why these chuds are so fucking insane
It's no coincidence that the Proud Boys are so big on the NoFap thing. They're basically weaponizing their followers' sexual frustration.
I mean I think we can strike a balance between constant horny posting and never cumming again. There must be some way we can just jerk off in private?
If this makes me a spineless centrist, so be it.
I think I remember having a relatively pleasant minor struggle session about it a while back, acknowledged the downsides of the meme, and since then the puritanical anti-horny attitude feels like it's lightened up over time. I subjectively think we're striking a better balance.
There's no "puritanical anti-horny attitude". The volcel police was a meme but being annoyed at dudes constantly being weird and horny every time they see a woman everywhere ever is not "puritanical".
Volcel police meme is what made the culture on CTH (and here by extension) one of the most comfortable and least hostile places on the internet for me as a woman for sure
Sure - but that doesn't mean teenagers should feel scared and ashamed that they are experiencing sexual desire in their personal lives. If someone can't tell the difference b/t memes for community health and religious like moral precepts, something is getting lost in translation. That's how communities that start out as ironic get taken over by a culture that's not ironic anymore. More and more people join that aren't literate in the memes and read them literally, and then begin enforcing them literally. It's a real pickle in community culture development patterns.
There's plenty of normal, healthy horny posting on this site that nobody calls the volcel police over. It's better to have a community-supported mechanism for shutting down people who cross the line into unwanted horny posting that's low-pressure enough that it doesn't make the person getting sent to horny gulag double down and decide that everyone else is wrong
There certainly is now - we'd be in agreement over that, I'm referring to that spell we went through when that was not the case.
It was a small struggle session, not nearly the big-ole site wide affair the legends speak of, but a bunch of people basically came in and admitted to being terrified of their own sexuality and not understanding where the meme began and ended. Turned into, hopefully, a helpful discussion that taught people how to better feel out boundaries, how to acknowledge and be proud of their sexuality but also respectful of other people's space and experience too.
There absolutely were posts at the time taking anti-horny, in all aspects of life, more seriously than I thought was healthy. Since then the irony levels seem like they got turned up to 11 and the fact that people want to FUCK is not treated as some personal moral failing. That may not have been the predominant angle, but there was a vocal minority at the time that seems to have quieted down.
Or maybe I'm misremembering the whole thing. This was like 5 months ago my dude, and in a thread that only had like 40 up votes. I'm not a historian over here.
I agree that the VolCel Police is highly problematic and should be abolished immediately, but you can't really compare an altright-initiated cult of sexual repression with an extended hornyposting bit about chastity play.
Yeah! I'm not too online, they are! Haha! Ha ha ha ha ha hA ha!
:jokerfied:
So much pee was storied in his balls that he achieved Prophetic Enlightenment
You're being sarcastic, but there is a huge Islamic contingent to the nofap crowd.
The moment that I heard (and checked to verify) that NoFap had a sticky thread that said "Quitting porn or 'semen retention' does NOT prevent or cure COVID-19", is the moment I lost all doubt that NoFap is an irredeemable cult. The fact that this HAS TO BE SAID AT ALL, that people are SO FAR GONE that such an idea isn't IMMEDIATELY seen as bullshit, with the people spreading it mocked until they leave, is enough to show everything you need to know about it. Just... placebo effect plus mass hysteria. That's it. That's all that's there.
Gonna inject hydroxychloroquine directly into my eyeballs and refuse to acknowledge my dick to cure covid. It's what Jesus would want.
more like on his chest. also on his stomach, face, and the ceiling.
Lol the concept of losing all your friends because you stopped masturbating is really funny to me. I'm just imagining his friends all sitting in a big circle and jerking off, then he passes by:
"Hey Dan won't you come join us?"
"Forget it. Dan has no place here any more."
"What do you mean?"
"Dan stopped masturbating. He thinks he's better than us now. Just ignore him."
The only thing nofap is missing to be a textbook cult is a sex pest leader
NoFap is like a modern day Hegelianism. It is a mystification that emerges from a rational kernel of truth. People really shouldn't beat off as much as they do and porn is honestly overstimulating shit that destroys healthy expectations of sexuality and partnership. I did NoFap for like a month once and the only thing of note that it made different was when I did finally jerk off I busted like a broken garden hose. There was cum everywhere.
my boyfriend usually jerks it every day but every now and again he pranks me and he just unloads like a full on cup worth of sperm on me
like what the fuck HOW DOES HE STORE IT ALL THERE
Jacking it is practice or maintenance, whereas sex/intimacy is the performance. Plus, extra stimulation from you rather than his hand.
People really shouldn’t beat off as much as they do and porn is honestly overstimulating shit that destroys healthy expectations of sexuality and partnership.
Perhaps it's the women who are wrong for not looking like Lady Dimitrescu. bunch of girls get mad at me sorry. Sorry. im trying to remove it
