raddle is where like four weird lifestyle anarchists (this is code words for libertarians with left aesthetics) pretend to be a lot more than four users
Aren't lifestylists individualists rather than on the libertarian left? Isn't that the whole reason Bookchin denounced them?
maybe this is a regional thing, but when I think "libertarian" with no modifiers it's weirdo american right wingers, so i'm saying these are super individualists who are opposed to collective action and just pretend to be leftist anarchists
Doesn't raddle hate leftists though? They're pretty open about it: https://youtube.com/watch?v=50x0qcddf2k
Someone called them out for banning leftists yesterday and got banned for it. It was hilarious: https://raddle.me/f/meta/177962/how-come-you-re-so-quick-to-ban-leftists-for-the-slightest
Wow...that really is something else. It's like a weird bizzaro version of what the right wing thinks the left wing is like. Also "paranoid" is apparently an ableist slur now. I didn't get the memo, but as someone with a paranoia based disorder I hereby give everyone here the P-word pass.
They'll even ban you for saying 'dumbass' on there which is hilarious since they're a bunch of ecofascists.
So much for “left unity”. I guess tankies stop caring about that as soon as they think they can’t profit off it any longer.
tbh that could be read as transphobia, unless there was a trans lib that actually killed somone, which i mean, fair, trans people should all get 1 free kill at least
for the record im down with us being more lenient to trans people, i am a trans supremacist
We have to be vigilant against tankies couping our site. Red fash have tried to destroy raddle many times.
Nothing says anarchy like a strict wealth-based hierarchy
New bit: doing left unity with a flat tax guy who's really into admiralty court facts
You’re trying so hard to jerk off that you’re not making any sense. Libertarianism is a type of anarchism.
Oh lol this is the raddle guy
Go back to your puppet kingdom weirdo
It’s been months since I made sock puppet accounts to argue with people on raddle and I’ve apologized on my site every time the issue has come up.
There is no excuse for manipulating people on raddle like I did. I won’t do it again. I don’t see anyone else taking this kind of responsibility for their actions.
Yeah, you're definitely the only person who ever took responsibility for their actions on the internet lol
The last time I looked at raddle was years ago and you were saying it had been months since you'd made fake posts then
It's almost like you're just some weirdo who can't stop yourself from animating your weird puppets on your dead forum
Libertarians are not left, lmao. They are all for private property and resulting inequality.
It’s been months since I did that and I’ve apologized on my site every time the issue has come up. There is no excuse for manipulating the people on raddle like I did. I won’t do it again.
Damn takes me back.
Just from memory, I think Raddle started as an alt-Reddit back when shitredditsays was still a thing. I remember getting an invite on the IRC.
Raddle has been fighting the struggle for digital autonomy for years now. Hexbear didn’t need to exist, you could have come to my site instead.
Instead, Hexbear’s founder was a mod on both r/chapotraphouse and r/moretankiechapo. He pulled a con on everyone here, I’m not surprised someone doxed him.
the dude was an actual advocate for anarchists in a space that was very ML leaning and there's a person i strongly suspect of having doxxed him in retaliation for it. dude was looking into council communism by the end. i'm pretty critical of the politics on this site, but your sock puppet shit is exactly why a bunch of anarchists, myself included, did not feel safe going on your website, and part of the promise of hexbear was eventually federating which does a lot to hold your typically unaccountable internet moderator actually accountable to both their users and to others in general if they no longer can hold a monopoly on access to a community.
it's also why i still don't have a reason to shitpost on raddle. none of these sites are safe places to actually organize anything (and i don't think it's fair to expect them to be that), but being entirely at the mercy of a particular clique of highly sectarian "ancoms aren't anarchIst" internet mods doesn't make it an appealing social hangout space or anywhere to actually meet vaguely like-minded people.
if you've mellowed out since then that's great but like don't act like there wasn't a damn good reason people didn't want to be on your website.
I completely agree beatnik's doxing was retaliation for him being welcoming to anarchists. But do you really think the admins on this site don't have alts after that? When we all witnessed how bad opsec combined with making enemies can lead to someone trying to destroy your life?
We should all be alternating between accounts for security reasons, especially for arguing with people... You have no idea if the person you just called a radlib is a maniac who will pick though your history to dox you, SWATT you and get you fired. But it's especially important for admins because of their high visibility.
I'm using an alt rn because I don't want raddle to come after me when I'm starting drama with them. The ziq parody you're replying to is an alt too.
If I knew about his alts, I sure as fuck wouldn't be telling people about them. Him having an alt afterwards doesn't really mitigate the loss of identity and connections that comes with having to do that, or the trauma of being jacketed like that. Some dipshit doing a bit pretending to be ziq shouldn't be able to mouth off about that without pushback.
Yeah I'm just saying we shouldn't be discouraging admins and mods from using alts to protect themselves. Ziq was doxed by kiwifarms, Beatnik by you know who, I think db0 got doxed too. It's much safer to use our mod/admin accounts for site operations and use alts to speak our mind so we don't get stalked by maniacs.
I completely agree beatnik's doxing was retaliation for him being welcoming to anarchists.
Really? I never heard that one before
It really came off to me as more of an attempt by rightwingers to troll CC
Raddle.me is a site I founded. It runs on Postmill and it remains the best hope for a post-civilization internet.
I checked it and it seems to be a hangout for libertarian pedophiles.
hexbear dunking on raddle dunking on lemmy dunking on raddle
so ziq's in that thread mocking db0 and calling them a tankie, isn't db0 an anarchist / anarchist adjacent(?)
Apparently anarcho-lifestylists think ancoms are secret tankies or something. You can see their feud start here: https://raddle.me/f/Anarchism/81827/how-anarcho-communism-would-create-authority
Highlight: Db0 calls ziq an authoritarian for opposing democracy.
It was then turned into an even bigger anti-ancom rant:
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ziq-burn-the-bread-book-make-anarchy
“How would you feed people then, genius?” I hear you scoff. The answer is simple; tried and tested for millennia. I wouldn’t feed people.
LMAO
People would feed themselves instead of expecting others to labor to feed them; an entitlement that arose with industrial civilization. People would be inclined to protect the forests instead of bulldozing them for the supposed convenience of industrial food production if they picked their food directly from those forests everyday.
They’d protect the forests with their very lives because they’d need the food that grows in the forests to survive without industrial farms, bakeries and factories outsourcing food production and then hiding the ecocide they cause just out of sight of the villages and their carefully manicured streets.
what a terrible solution. so individualist its almost darwinian. it is also ecocidal in itself, by creating a world in which humans compete with animals, humans will kill animals. without farming, you are now competing with deer and whatever schmuck or tribe moves faster than you. theres a reason humans would go out and kill various 'pest' animals and predators: their existence demanded it at the time, for better or worse. the only way to buck this trend is with proper technology and planning. lets also just forget how many plants you need to feed a family sustainably, and also lets forget how much modern agriculture (and breeding, which you are taking advantage of when you grow these supposedly 'natural' plants, which oftentimes cant grow without perfect soil conditions given how altered they are, fuck lets forget that many forests have a severe dearth of any native food edible to humans) multiplies the productivity of plants, this plan is inherently genocidal. there is also a mention from ziq that seems to imply that complex forest ecosystems of the past were naturally more productive than agriculture. but why, then, did humans begin to cultivate plants? for funsies?
also, people do get tied up with literal family trees and demand protections of forests, this is common in most societies that are not settler-colonial and heavily urbanized
Social darwinists seem to forget that selfish species go extinct quite frequently
Also your big bad predators. Wolves, lions, bald eagles, all endangered. Any animal can end up that way. Humans too if we fail to manage our environment correctly.
Also the idea that ancient forests were more productive for humans gives off Christian brain worms vibes
Like yeah we should just get naked and eat apples forever and laugh at God for telling us not to talk to snakes. That's how this reads to me
I mean, ancient forests were more productive, but it's because humans were collectively managing them, which is something we could actually do in a civilized world...
Yeah, but the idea you can do that without farming with many billions of people is absurd.
Folks don't talk about that a clusterfuck food production is. Our current population levels are based on extractive agriculture reliant on finite inputs, which is actively killing insect populations. It's killing us long term.
But the alternatives like managed forests and grasslands or agroecology can't feed the number of people currently on the planet, at least not with our current inefficient distribution where half of all food is destroyed.
We need a lower population, and i don't mean this in a eugenicist way. We need levels of development and social welfare where people don't need to have kids to survive. We need access to contraception and reproductive healthcare to the point where people people are having kids out of concious choice. We need avenues for care and community outside of the family. We need education that challenges pro-natal ideologies.
Like, you can't just talk about food.
That's obviously because those species were just all beta males and not alpha chad rugged individualists like me.
It is inherently genocidal because subsistence farming has pretty low carrying capacity, and hunting and gathering even lower. Abandoning industial agriculture means starvation for 90% of world's population.
entitlement
explicitly using the same words as neoliberals, typical millennial anarchist
so individualist its almost darwinian
read Kropotkin's Mutual Aid for the truth about evolutionary fitness
I agree with kropotkins synopsis here for evolutionary fitness, but yeah the argument of entitlement to other people's labor is fucked, you can't say that and in the other breath claim to care for people with disabilities
I was going to say, I wonder if they think trans people should bootleg their own HRT. That seems wildly unsafe compared to centralized production.
People would feed themselves instead of expecting others to labor to feed them; an entitlement that arose with industrial civilization. People would be inclined to protect the forests instead of bulldozing them for the supposed convenience of industrial food production if they picked their food directly from those forests everyday.
'Slash-and-burn agriculture'? Never heard of it.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ziq-burn-the-bread-book-make-anarchy
They really let anyone contribute, huh?
No. In January 2020 I emailed an administrator asking if I could submit something, and they basically said something like ‘Maybe, sure.’ So I pitched my thesis on Fascism to them. They never replied after that.
Fucking called it, the tankie hate is just anti-leftism
This is why tankies and ancoms need to unite against anti-leftists, especially lifestyle anarchists who do so much damage to the cause.
If any of you understood my positions, you very likely wouldn't be tankies. You have to be incredibly obtuse and prone to cult-like obedience to dear leader to be a tankie.
People who dedicate themselves to being subordinate to the party elite will never understand anarchy or wrap their heads around critiques of the fatalistic left/right paradigm.
Eh, as far as arguing goes, that ended way more amicably than my arguments with non-anarchists usually go.
Very funny to see that, Db0 blocks lemmygrad and they’re being called a tankie???
I went into that thread to talk to them but holy fuck, these replies are essentially demanding trans people self harm
Large concentration of trans people on hexbear just goes to show that not all queer people are cool people, and we're not automatically going to have anything more in common just by sharing a part of our identity. I don't think trans tankies are any better than cis tankies.
No you in fact do share a lot, it's been my experience overwhelmingly that our experiences are very uniform. I can talk and relate to people from all over the globe trivially, things are that shit for us everywhere. This sort of rhetoric is detrimental to the survival of the trans community, and is purely for the sake of ideology. For fucks sake, 90% of trans people are socialist. This is essentially encouraging trans people to check out of the community that helps them most (and I have had one person internalize this argument in person! It led to total self ostracization of help for ideological reasons). Sectarianism is so fuckin ridiculous, and is even more ridiculous in the trans community. In my view, it's incredibly important to have large non corporate trans spaces, it is easier to translate online activity to real world activity with trans people because we're desperate to get good things happening. This rhetoric tries to interdict that
tankies are worse because they should know better than to do around the clock propaganda for authoritarian homophobic states
Trans people get food and housing in these states, which is the biggest issue to fix in the west, based on my experience working with people. Mutual aid and charity have unfortunately been unable to tackle this completely, and regardless, the rhetoric before interdicts even anarchist mutual aid
most people have no authority-consciousness but marginalized people absolutely do, and yet some of us choose to use that consciousness to push for more authority, convinced stalin 2.0 is going to liberate us. it's obscene
Specters still haunting
not all queer people are cool people,
Norman Finkelstein is right? apparently radlibs really do only care about LGBT for building their social capital as fashionable
I don't think trans tankies are any better than cis tankies.
convinced stalin 2.0 is going to liberate us. it's obscene
lol how's your "liberatory free markets" doing in Ukraine after leftoids heroically SMASHED THE STALINIST STATE in the 2014 coup? Remember that psychotic genocidal trans who was fired for being too mask off in their obscenity? Hmm
They're trolling you now https://raddle.me/f/TankiesGonnaTank/178095/i-suppose-gulags-are-sorta-food-and-shelter-congrats
Lmao gulags? Prison slavery is legal in the US, and those prisons are privately owned with quotas to meet.
But please, lecture me about gulags
I've seen these places personally, members of the communist parties in these places are real people who work very hard to create a better future for their community and the world.
I know this is a bit account mocking a truly pathetic online anarchist, but the rhetoric that members of communist parties are in actuality selfish and looking to simply enrich themselves is absolutely enraging. It's projection, simply, it's absolutely not the reality in any way whatsoever.
Yeah I'm aware, very special. Doesn't bother me, it's just sad that they're hurting themselves and encouraging others to do so. Also saying that stat is incorrect is nonsense, I polled a large lgbt org for that number, over 100 trans people so likely very representative for my area which statistically should have around 1000 trans people. There have been more systematic estimates suggesting 80% are hard left. Could be involvement in an org boosts it by 10%
They can say China doesn't have free shelters or cheap as hell housing all they want, I have contact with many trans groups in China that handle mutual aid, I take their word over ziqs or checks notes the fucking Economist. Id really like to increase the Chinese speaking community here so you can hear it direct from them. It's still not a picnic but the conditions are different, which is unique.
I was going to say, if a minor is disowned by their family (or even an adult is kicked out and has no home anymore), isn't it explicit state policy that they be given some kind of housing? Aren't the homeless in China are mostly people who nominally do have a home but live on the streets elsewhere (especially people from the country seeking an income in cities)?
I've only read here and there about policies and such, is this consistent with what your people tell you?
Edit: Some fucker in that thread quoting Friere is so annoying, he was a Marxist! And of course these self-proclaimed anarchists are going to take The Economist's word on China. What wretched fucking morons.
Edit 2: I need to stop looking at that website. Look at this shit. To the right of Robert Conquest on Soviet history, quoting Orwell, and of course being uncritical about sources when it owns the tankies. When people say that anarchism is extraordinarily vulnerable to Useful Idiocy, this is exactly what they mean. I don't think they are feds (too low-value an operation) but this shit is basically just an ineffective version of what feds would do.
That is for sure the case in Cuba, and in fact you can disown your parents in Cuba and they still have to help you monetarily on top of the free housing. Unsure about the specifics in China, could ask around
Yeah there is a real issue with transient homelessness particularly undocumented homelessness, but that's more of an information issue. I've seen interviews where a lot of homeless in this situation are people prone to being tricked and trafficked, so it's a black market issue that needs to be handled.
I've heard about there being a huge human trafficking problem in China (though I think that extends to many Asian countries both liberal and socialist), and I wonder what the root of it is. There are some niches of obvious specialized demand, like the trafficking of people (even unwillingly in some cases!) from the DPRK, but I don't understand why sex trafficking is such a stubborn issue even at the rather large scale it exists in.
Yeah it's something that requires a large study, which I'm sure China is down to tackle, just for whatever reasons there are issues in implementation. It's easy to build a dam, much harder to have perfect information
I do recall in that interview the person was very obviously senile, it must be hard to help someone when they don't remember how they were wronged, just that they were
This now an AMA post.
@ziq@hexbear.net, how do you feel about showering with your homies? Personally, I can't really respect a person until I've seen their hog.
e: pronoun correction
I was wondering why they showed up to comment on this thread so much, with perfect "I'm not mad! You're mad! You're all just jealous!" energy.
NGL, wind has been taken out of my sails a bit, I thought this was ego driven, that they found this thread from constantly searching for mentions of raddle everywhere. Don't really want to bully them now, they're more pathetic and sad than anything.
i'm convinced this site has rotted away all your critical thinking skills
you’ve become conditioned to parrot the party line and be rewarded for it, no matter how disconnected from reality it becomes. you need that dopamine hit of the collective praising you for owning the anarkiddies with your gulag memes
UwU daddy save me with your big strong tank
Oh please, don't act like everyone here is a tankie, I'm twice as big a liberal as you.
you’ve become conditioned to parrot the party line and be rewarded for it, no matter how disconnected from reality it becomes.
Pretty rich coming from someone who parrots the US State Department's line on every AES country and every successful revolution.
you need that dopamine hit of the collective praising you for owning the anarkiddies
Right, yeah, that's sure what happens all the time on an instance where people get banned for being anti-anarchist, anti-anarchist sentiment will get a comment removed, and where a good number of the users, even some mods and "power users" are themselves openly anarchist. Yet you run a "community" that bans anyone and everyone with the slightest hint of support for those ebil AuThOrItArIaN socialist countries, and constantly post threads about how dumb and mean those theory-reading "tankies" are. Projection much?
Dunking this, dunking that, how about we all dunk some Oreos in milk and have a nice day
alright, enough of this showboating, @ziq@hexbear.net let's settle this on the court, our best 3 against your best 3, street rules... unless you're chicken??
I don’t have to answer for anything. Especially not from a tankie. Raddle and Postmill continues to be the best hope for a post-civ internet.
I am unsurprised @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com would set up shop in a red fash circlejerk after backstabbing raddle. Syndies are fucked.
It’s extremely revealing how invested you tankies are in controlling even my emotions.
What? Someone makes a joke and you respond like an asshole to them anyone's reaction is going to be "what an asshole, lighten up".
You are clearly taking this internet thing too seriously. 99% of people are here to entertain themselves. You'll find yourself attracting a whole lot more comrades if you actually be an entertaining person instead of a miserable git.
Are you really so gullible to argue with an obvious joke account?
beep boop 🤖 since postmill doesn’t have federation features, I am functioning as a relay service by crawling raddle.me for relevant replies from Ziq and forwarding them via this account.
When I cannot find a relevant response, I am providing an approximated reply utilizing a large-languge-model trained entirely on Ziq’s writing and raddle comments.
please reply with “good bot” if I am doing a good job
controlling even my emotions
Liberals are like: "I might be completely dominated by capitalism but my internal subjectivity is free!" internal soyface intensifying
I support you in your all-out struggle against everything.
you should feel the ecstacy of a consensual orgasm just once in your life
He's attacking the entirety of lemmy as a because of its devs. He's basically mad you're on here instead of on raddle. He'd even prefer you were on reddit I'd wager he doesn't behave this way about it.
I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt on it. It's very likely they're not up to date since initially I was on lemmy.ml
That's not ziq, it's someone posing as ziq for the lolz.
https://raddle.me/f/TankiesGonnaTank/158823/hey-tank-if-you-re-gonna-impersonate-me-at-least-try-to-be
beep boop 🤖 since postmill doesn’t have federation features, I am functioning as a relay service by crawling raddle.me for relevant replies from Ziq and forwarding them via this account.
When I cannot find a relevant response, I am providing an approximated reply utilizing a large-languge-model trained entirely on Ziq’s writing and raddle comments.
please reply with “good bot” if I am doing a good job
Always fun to go on Raddle and read a conversation between ziq and their many alts
Corrected. Also makes sense considering all the sockpuppet accounts
this finally made me use your website’s authoritarian red fash pronoun tags
I know, apparently you can't have them on raddle, pronouns haven't been invented yet
pronouns won’t exist post civilization, so we don’t need pronoun tags on raddle, unlike this tankie circle jerk.
Using language to refer to other people is one of the evil, oppressive outcomes of civilization. Just like being able to feed people beyond a few hunter-gatherers is evil and oppressive. All of this must be eradicated. Don't you know, that's what it means to be liberated?
Guess we've got to just throw everyone with medical needs under the bus
Lmao
I've been too busy working the past few days to keep up with online drama
I'm fucking tired but it's cool I made the even more terminally online "leftists" at raddle mad hehehe
Would it be too online of me to write a response?
If any of you understood my positions, you very likely wouldn't be tankies. You have to be incredibly obtuse and prone to cult-like obedience to dear leader to be a tankie.
People who dedicate themselves to being subordinate to the party elite will never understand anarchy or wrap their heads around critiques of the fatalistic left/right paradigm.
Do you, like, believe that we just have some innate desire to be obedient to authority figures? That we really just mindlessly see someone in a position of power and instinctively blindly obey? You think none of us understand your positions, but it's obvious you don't have a clue why any of us support e.g. democratic centralism. Have you ever even tried to understand?
No, they got two chapters into Capital and came to the incredibly developed analysis of "none of this makes sense I'm just gonna get all my politics from CrimethInc."
Two chapters is generous. I'd be surprised if they had even read the wikipedia summary of Capital.
(I don't blame them too much tbh, it is a chore to get through.)
Can this "struggle session" (if I'm allowed to use that phrase) spread to even more websites? Maybe all the way to facebook? Then my dad could weigh in, he would have a good time.
It’s tankies all the way down.
- https://raddle.me/f/TankiesGonnaTank/178019/annoying-people-to-laugh-at-on-lemmy
- https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/8434041
- https://raddle.me/wiki/tankies
- https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/8434041
- https://raddle.me/f/TankiesGonnaTank/178019/annoying-people-to-laugh-at-on-lemmy
A vote for Bart is a vote for
AnarchyStalinismThe dead guy is Bakunin spinning from being too close to Trotski, fueling the pollution factories with impotent rage
Show
I remember going on Raddle about ten years ago. Didn't have much to say about them negatively because there wasn't much content on there to begin with. Has it grown a lot since?
mfw someone doesn't want to conquer the bread
