I'm reading Hobsbawm and these guys randomly appear all the time but he never bothers to explain who they are and what they want
The Freemasons weren't a big secret or anything, I have a bunch of their weird "code" books I bought at yard sales over the years. The Freemasons was just what the rich weird dudes in your town did to hang out with each other, like the elks lodge but 50-200 years ago. And while there's really no evidence to suggest they were ever a nationally or internationally powerful force, they could have a large role behind the scenes at the community level, because that was just where all the owners and bosses went to hang out on the weekend, so of course things like anti-union activities were coordinated at Masonic meetings. I think this is where a lot of their sinister reputation as string pullers in American lore comes from. The masons were where the mayor, your state legislators, and the factory owners networked and hung out
But wasn't the P2 Gladio-lodge merely named after the famous Freemasonic lodge? Obviously the lines are a bit blurry when it comes to that, but I seem to remember that the P2 where they did Gladio was named after something, but wasn't strictly a Freemason-type thing. Which was how and why the Catholic Church justified its participation, since they are banned from being part of the freemasons by Cannon law.
I wouldn't discredit them entirely regarding pulling strings, especially 1910s-1970s. They would hold conventions of tens of thousands in major cities. A nationwide network of thousands and thousands of small business owners and professionals is nothing to sneeze at. I don't mean the org itself putting out commands but rather the opportunity for members across the country to communicate and coordinate their business/finanical actions for their own benefit.
They're literally just frats but for middle-aged, usually settled men. Far less wild and rapey, more grill-and-charity-drive-y. They do rituals and rites because having secret dress up with your boys is fun as shit, it essentially serves the same social function as any in-joke.
Communist governments have generally banned them for a reason. Ultimately it's a place for rich dudes to get together and interact without fear of observation by outsiders, which is sort of inherently reactionary as it provides a means for a group of people who have a motive to engage in counterrevolution to conspire to do so.
Never seen it compared to mafias before, but yes that works really well
It's the white guy mob. It doesn't get the same recognition because it's not ethic but they do all the same type crimes
shoehorning Goon Show quotes into conversations with people too young to know what the Goon Show is
:jesse-wtf:
Was that the P2 lodge that was involved with the Vatican bank? Even though Catholics aren’t supposed to be Freemasons?
Yeah, there's a lot of Catholics in freemasonry despite the auto-excommmunication. The DLP ( Deeply chuddy Tradcath split from the Labour party that grabs a seat every so often) here are basically that.
Our founding father's were in all in whatever their friends were. It is just a rich guy's cosplay club. Howver by virtue of thrm being clubs for oldnrich men they are evil. But no more evil than a regular country club or bank
the freemasons are mainly a social club that also occasionally do business with each other by networking. they're also sexist knobs
Allows irrational collusion in capital markets because of a religious incentive. This type of collusion allows a small number of individuals to gain monopoly status in markets. While 'secret societies' are mostly harmless, there is a real threat when holders of capital are involved.
Sexist middle aged men tree fort that has a sign that says "no girls allowed" on the front.
On the one hand I want to say boy's club that the rich and powerful play around in but on the other I want to say it's more nefarious. Not sure.
Yeah I think they've just been clubs for weirdo sex pest bourgeois to hang out at.
This is actually true for a lot of secret societies emerging between th 18th-19th but the Masons have been around since the 16th century so I'm wondering what's going on there. Could just be a social club as others have pointed itt but I'm inclined to thinking theres more.
Edit: I also don't like calling them "social clubs" because it's an innocuous way to frame their function as political networks and organizing bodies (ex: Mason Lodges and Operation Gladio as Bunhead mentioned, or Italian Carbonari in the 19th century)
Yeah, it is a social club just for the worst people on earth. If they didn't have the cosplay club they would just do it at little st james island or davos
It's essentially the same function of earlier versions of the KKK like the Veiled Prophet Society in St. Louis - networking and reinforcement of bourgeois class solidarity through ritual, just less actively anti-labor/white supremacist.
My dad was a mason and from close exposure to it it's basically just a drinking club that does community service type things occasionally. Maybe 250 years ago they were some elite powerful network but nowadays it's grill city.
He certainly wasn't rich either, I think the wealth demographics are dependent on the area
