The brainworms in the comments it's just incredible. There's one actual good detailed explanation in the comments, waiting to see what :galaxy-brain: takes show up
Glad to see some people pointing out how Cuba was in opposition to Apartheid while the US was in support. That's not something you can easily rationalize as a lib.
"Mandela is a terrorist. It's good to oppose racism, but the ends do not justify the means"
- Average western lib, 1985
1985? Almost every white liberal today still believes this in South Africa although a much more softer version. They like Mandela because they believe that he "mellowed out" in prison. All this even though there is no evidence Mandela ever targeted anything other than infrastructure, the deadly MK attacks all happened when Mandela was in prison and had little to no control over the MK and ANC.
I was literally taught that Mandela was a terrorist in 2000’s American school
Sounds about white.
People really believe that Mandela had full control the MK from Robben Island somehow. Maybe he had superpowers or something? I don't know.
Even ignoring that the regime had exhausted all non violent forms of resistance. Do they expect everyone to stand around and do nothing while 3.5 million people were removed from their homes because of the colour of their skin?
Mandela is the only black South African these libs know and rather than admitting their own ignorance they just assume he was the one in charge of it all.
Wait until they find out Mandela is Xhosa and the apartheid government used this against him to cause conflict between Xhosa and Zulu groups during the early 90s in an attempt to undermine the ANC before the first democratic elections.
(Actually please don't, ethnic tensions and discourse is bad enough as it is, no need to let libs know about it and to hear their :centrist: takes)
Where I'm from liberals worship a bowdlerised Mandela as some sort of nice non-violent civility grandpa. The large amount of reactionaries who supported apartheid South Africa for owning the commies (or, if you ask them in private after a few beers, owning the [slur]s) is an embarrassment that your supposed to forget about.
Yeah similar here. A great way to get under their skin is to mention pro Cuba and Libya Mandela speeches, or anti USA quotes. Their brains can't comprehend it.
Also, don't mention how the South African communist party has been an extremely close ally of the ANC for ages. Or how the ANC and Mandela used to have explicitly socialist goals for nationalising the economy, something they saw as a prerequisite for ending apartheid, and how the imperialist nations forced them to abandon these goals in favour of neoliberalism.
Not everyone on there is a lib, there are one or two cool people on there in a sea of chuds. As more South Africans get internet access, the tide is slowly changing on that subreddit. Hopefully it continues.
Castro literally ended Apartheit with his Angola intervention ... this is a level of disrespect i can not comprehend...
USA of course provided "material support"to the South African-backed anti-communists. The war started in 1975 and coincidentally, South Africa got their first nukes in 1979.
Nukes were actually provided by Israel, and the flying of a US spyplane (SR-71 Blackbird) prevented a nuclear test. Basically a Soviet spy leaked the date and details of the proposed nuclear test, and forced the USA, in front of the international community, into a position where they had to find out what was happening with regards to the situation. Otherwise US support of apartheid would become too blatant, if they refused to gather intelligence on a nuclear test by South Africa.
South Africa tested the nuclear weapons at a different location, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vela_incident
You're expecting your average redditor to know basic history? Optimistic.
All most white people in SA would know about the border wars was that their fathers or grandfathers were conscripted into the military to fight some people somewhere. And that was bad, because their relative got hurt or has PTSD. Nothing about the history of why it was happening, what exactly they were fighting for. (Spoiler, they were fighting for apartheid and colonial rule).
A white South African would probably consider that a mark against Castro tbh
Especially when you consider military conscription at the time. Most older white people would have probably actually fought against the Cubans in some manner if they were deployed to Angola or Namibia. Even if they weren't deployed, they probably joined the army instead of going to prison, or fleeing the country, or joining the ANC.
It's why the border wars are a very sore spot. It reveals how easily people will fall in line in exchange for material benefits and escaping punishment. Reveals the true mindset of fascism, and just how many older people you know joined the fash military.
It still is hard to comprehend for me as a born free South African.
This leads to a weird situation where white South Africans in other countries are either there because they didn’t want to fight for apartheid, or because they were unhappy it ended, depending on when they left.
This is very true. A Labour MP in the UK for example, fled South Africa to avoid military conscription. And did some cool work calling out Israel for being an apartheid state.
In general, the more reactionary people left to Australia, New Zealand and sometimes the USA, while the less reactionary people fled to Europe, with the UK being an exception. And the Netherlands not really fitting in either category, as Dutch and Afrikaans are very similar languages, which makes assimilation easier if you speak Afrikaans. This is just a general trend, I'm sure there are plenty of reactionary SA immigrants in Europe unfortunately.
I can actually understand a lot of Dutch lol, thanks to being taught Afrikaans in school.
Leave the commies alone! The sanctions are there because they are doing some kond [sic] of wrong thing to their people.
"I don't know what they're doing, but I know it's wrong."
The "rooi gevaar" ("red scare" in English) is still very much real in South Africa, to pretty high levels. The past propaganda lives on.
I don't know what you did to deserve this, but it must have been bad.
Something Fidel Castro dictator something...
Always love to bring up Mandela's support of Fidel, it really gets under their skin as they love the liberalised version of Mandela in their heads, and not the real person.
What's alarming is some more "left" people falling for the talking points. See people supporting Ukraine, or some people complaining that South Africa is providing aid to Cuba from the "left".
complaining about food insecurity in SA
saying Cuba deserves sanctions because they are communists
These fucking chauvinists.
:galaxy-brain: type imperial mindset. Standard I guess for priveleged South Africans.
No, he's never met a nice South African
And that's not bloody surprising, man
'Cause we're a bunch of arrogant bastards
Who hate black peopleBruh I have to share a country with these people who don't understand basic internationalism. A basic mutual allyship where Cuba provides us aid in a time of need and vice versa.
Like come on, is South Africa supposed to be an island with no relationships with any other countries?
Is the answer "They think apartheid was a good thing but know they'll lose any shred of credibility if they admit it"?
The person they're arguing with is trying to make the argument as lib friendly as possible and they still don't get it. People can't be this obtuse.
content warning: discussion of racial slurs
Just want to point out that "coloured" is not considered a racial slur in South Africa, it's an actual cultural/racial group. Many South Africans proudly identify as coloured. Just wanted to point that out before people take it out of context.
Yeah it is what it is, just hope their argument gets attention in a sea of anti communist nonsense. The "rooi gevaar/red scare" never ended clearly.
To understand the bigger picture:
South Africa is donating $3 Million
South Africa has a GDP of $309 BillionThis is akin to the US donating $180 million to some country
The main takeaway is that the SA government likes CubaOf course we do, Cuba sent troops to help fight against the apartheid forces in the border wars. And for people who say that's politics of the past, Cuba sent 187 doctors to South Africa at the start of the COVID 19 pandemic. So why would we not support them back, as a basic sign of solidarity.
I’m sorry but you are unpatriotic
You see my boy I can see you are one of those people who say “yeah guys South Africa has its problems but it’s great you know every country has its rough patches but like atleast our country is beautiful and we have table mountain” you are unpatriotic you are ok with the fact our people go hungry every night and that number is in the millions.
I see things are going well :what-the-hell: :michael-laugh: who the fuck talks like this?
This is someone weaponising leftist talking points against the donation. The same way "leftists" in the USA are anti China or support Ukraine.
From its earliest days the Cuban revolution has itself been a source of inspiration to all freedom-loving people. We admire the sacrifices of the Cuban people in maintaining their independence and sovereignty in the face of a vicious imperialist-orchestrated campaign to destroy the impressive gains made in the Cuban revolution.
- Nelson Mandela :mandela:
Im gonna make an uneducated guess and say that r/southafrica is like 95% white or something
Last time I went on to that sub when you posted it I got roped into an argument with somebody making arguments about “the elites” and I’m 90% sure he meant Jews bc he was reactionary af lol
Nah when racist people from South Africa talk about "the elites" they mean rich black people, government officials, and affirmative action, known as BEE in South Africa. Or depending on how severe the brainworm infestation is, any black person not living in a shack.
The modern ANC government definitely is very corrupt and enriches high ranking members at the expense of public funds. And don't have the interests of the average South African at heart. But SA chuds use this as an excuse to go full racist.
Ah makes sense, he was banging on about it and circling back to it with an intensity that I usually see people here use for da jooz. Lol
The modern ANC government definitely is very corrupt and enriches high ranking members at the expense of public funds
So like every other capitalist govt lol
Yeah pretty much, including the past SA government. Actually bankrupted the country fighting our own version of the Vietnam war in Angola and Namibia. Plenty of corruption as well. And left the new SA government with all the debt.
Try explaining this to a South African chud and watch their brains melt.
