It’s “Lunar New Year” now. Of course, there are many lunar calendars with differing starts of the year but let’s just pave over that to Frankenstein together some generic nonspecific holiday because Gyna bad.
It doesn’t really matter. Focus on eating dumplings instead comrades. Love you all x
- a Chinese person
On the one hand it doesn't matter. On the other hand, this is the exact kind of rhetorical salami slicing that western propaganda engages in against it's enemies. I think in the context of rising Sinophobia and Asian people getting hatecrimed on the streets, it is good and useful to push back against this sort of thing.
Idk about you but I've seen stores and restaurants near me brand clearly Chinese things as "Hong Kongnese" or "Taiwanese", presumably to avoid hate crimes and backlash. One particularly egregious example is that news headline that framed 冰糖葫芦 as a Korean snack:
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Edit: I think a good comparison is pushing back when Israel tries to claim falafel as its own dish. Falafel won't stop being delicious either way and it's not a hill to die on, but fuck Israel for trying.
filling my guts with Пероги for a heckin slavy the ukraine to celebrate lunar new years
I mean, they're as much dumplings as crab rangoon is
as a black person...
will do!
It's commonly called "Lunar New Year" among non-Chinese English speakers in Southeast Asia, since it's a holiday in many countries there.
Well that makes sense. Chinese New Year is not called Chinese New Year in China, it’s just the New Year.
When you go somewhere where “New Year” or “Lunar New Year” means something else, for example the Gregorian New Year, the generic term that works in your own country might cause confusion for others, necessitating a distinction.
But within an American context, specifically relating to the Chinese diaspora, the shift in terminology is undeniably due to the political climate vis-a-vis China.
Those are different holidays.
What we “celebrate” in the west is Chinese new year. It has red envelopes and a rabbit in the zodiac, which means it’s not Vietnamese New Year or Malaysian New Year or Japanese New Year, which are distinct and different holidays
Friendly reminder to Liberals that flattening culture and being a “cultural melting pot” is genocide and white supremacy. Culture is defined by its distinctiveness and specificity, the more you broaden it and make it vague the more you destroy it.
The idea of “cultural melting pot” came out of a Fordist-type industrialist making his employees in the US do a play where they go into the pot in their indigenous and cultural outfits and all come out with suits and the same hair cut. This is the process you are attempting to apply to a Chinese holiday to remove it or it’s specific features and erase it
The reason it’s called Chinese New Year and not Lunar New Year is because 农历新年 translates to “Chinese calendar New Year.”
农历 literally means “agricultural calendar” but somehow it was translated into “Chinese calendar” in English. If you want to be literal with the translation it should be called the “agricultural calendar New Year”.
In fact, the name was only changed in 1970 when it was previously called 夏历 (Xia calendar), which refers to a very specific calendar from the Xia dynasty, where as many as 102 different types of calendar have been known to exist throughout the entire Chinese history. The agricultural calendar is built upon and evolved from the Xia calendar to form a type of lunisolar calendar (Yin Yang calendar) that combines the Yin calendar (阴历, i.e. lunar) and the Yang calendar (阳历, i.e. solar), so it’s not entirely correct to call it a lunar calendar, or Lunar New Year.
农历新年 (Chinese calendar New Year) is used to distinguish it from just 新年 (New Year) because the Gregorian calendar has been used in official capacity in China since the late Qing dynasty, and continued by the Republic of China in 1912 and then the People’s Republic of China in 1949.
In China, Chinese New Year is also called 春节 (Spring Festival).
Can people just say "Happy New Year" and move on? Why the need to specify? It's not like people don't know the date, and it's not like "Happy Holidays" isn't an equally ambiguous statement.
Most people just say Happy New Year but because we celebrate both new years, depending on the contexts you want to specify which one you’e referring to.
I mean... Do people not have calendars?
"Happy Holidays" also loses the contextual cue of which holiday is being celebrated, and that's fine, so why not here?
I've seen Steam call it Lunar New Year on their sales for years now. They sure as fuck never meant Ramadan, but plenty of Americans are so
that even mentioning China invites people screaming at you and sending death threatsThis seems like its going to be a large struggle session on here...
I honestly don't care if someone calls me a lib online because of me saying "Lunar New Year" or tankie or ebil CCP shill for "Chinese New Year"....
I know this has a geopolitical context but it's like "Happy Holidays" vs "Merry X-Mas" to me again...
Edit: Honestly, could be worse.... it could be Taiwan New Year for all I know
That being said, if they INSIST on saying LUNAR New Year, if I say Chinese, we gonna have a problem...
the barista at starbucks wished me a bountiful LUNAR new year! wokeness has gone mad!
Active push to use “lunar New Year” due to anti-China sentiment
This is exactly the same as Happy Holidays
Come back when there’s rising anti-Christian sentiment. (And maybe skip the trivialization of casual Sinophobia next time)
Christians aren’t the subject of a racist moral panic. Chinese people are.
Well, I mean, unless there's footage of people attacking or using racial slurs at people for them calling it "Chinese New Year", because of ebil CCP sentiments, I don't think there's much fuss to be made here....
Is it ok for me to call Hannukah "generic winter holiday" as long as I don't assault anyone? It must also not be racist to force black students to change their hairstyle, as they didn't use the N word.
Is it ok for me to call Hannukah "generic winter holiday" as long as I don't assault anyone?
Uh no... but I could simply say happy holidays....
It must also not be racist to force black students to change their hairstyle
How is this related to Chinese New Year again? Did Chinese people in the U.S get forced to change their haircuts, even though that's part of the new year?
Totally hasn't been a spike of sinophobia well documented on hexbear. Jesus Christ go fuck yourself. My roommate literally assaulted me last chinese new year.
Ok I'll go fuck myself for my apathy.... I'm sorry for my ignorance but do I look like I'm talking in bad faith?
Yes.
Ok, I guess I have no business in discussing this...
Nothingburger.
Chinese games that aren't afraid to place Chinese culture forward call it Lunar New Year in the west too.
My hometown has a lot of Chinese people and a lot of Vietnamese people. Lunar New Year seems appropriate.
Genshin impact is made by libs who will submit to whatever bullshit the west comes up with to make more money.
You can still celebrate Chinese culture, you just have to make it clear you’re not “connected to the PRC”.
Chinese people having to change the names of their holidays in the west because of this is not a “nothingburger”.
Calling it Lunar New Year is more inclusive. I can't tell if this is a bit or not.
It is not “more inclusive”. Unless you think it’s also more inclusive to stop calling Ramadan “Ramadan” and start calling it “the fasting”. In fact, it ignores the diversity of different lunar new years in different cultures.
Chinese New Year is a distinct, Chinese holiday. It is not the same as the Vietnamese Lunar New Year, for example.
In order to conform with the new extreme anti-China zeitgeist, references specifically to the Chinese Lunar New Year are being replaced with the generic term “Lunar New Year”.
My impression is that they're using Lunar New Year as a way to include all the cultures the celebrate it, not as a way to be Sinophobic.
Do you think they should just list all of them?
I find it hard to accept that saying Lunar New Year is more Sinophobic than not saying Tet is exclusive of Vietnamese people.
When Chinatown celebrations are having to use “Lunar New Year” instead of “Chinese New Year” due to fears of being branded Chicom agents here to kill white people, it is Sinophobic.
The default assumption when discussing the “Lunar New Year” is still the Chinese Lunar New Year. The only difference is you don’t have to use the word “Chinese”. Its adoption is being pushed not to include other holidays but to avoid associations with China or assumptions of evil Chicom disloyalty. In any case, even if one were to assume this change was made in good faith, it does not make sense to erase the differences between culturally distinct holidays just because they’re Asian and they involve the zodiac. They are different holidays. Are we supposed to fix the underrepresentation of other lunar holidays by erasing their distinct character?
Would you accept turning Christmas, Kwanzaa and Hanukkah into “Winter Holiday” as if they were the same and then almost exclusively using it to refer to Christmas?
Alright I'm going to take a step back: is there some specific event you're referring to?
No? It’s a general trend. Chinatowns, whom I highly, highly doubt are celebrating Tet, are having to switch to “Lunar New Year”.
It’s like how the Russian bakery near my place had to put up a stand with Ukraine poster because they got vandalized and had their windows broken.
Similarly, the rise in Sinophobic hate crimes is closely correlated with the current political climate. Associating yourself with China invites accusations of disloyalty similar to the situation faced by Japanese-Americans in the lead up to and during WWII. You know how westerners freak out when they see non-Christians in traditional religious clothing? It’s not quite on the same level, but this is getting close to concealing that you are, for example, a Muslim and just saying “I’m religious” so as not to be targeted for it. Or saying “I’m partaking in a religious fast” during Ramadan.
They are having to avoid specific references to their own culture and having to substitute a generic term.
Regardless of matters of self-identification, the principal issue is that westerners, who have up until recently used “Chinese New Year”, are now using “Lunar New Year” to refer to the same specific holiday in order to avoid mentioning China. It is not more inclusive of other Lunar New Years because, in the minds of the vast majority of westerners, it still refers to the Chinese New Year. This is easy to tell with regards to Tet as the zodiac is not exactly the same.
I don't think I share your opinion. In my city, where there are large numbers of both Chinese and Vietnamese people, there are specific events for CNY, specific events for Tet, and general events meant to be inclusive of both. In my experience, the east Asian diaspora populations in the US express a significant amount of solidarity with each other. Through this lens I see the "rebranding" as a willingness to share and to acknowledge that the Chinese aren't the only ones who celebrate a new year at this time. Part of this is that I think large amounts of the populations are now second generation. They went to school here and grew up with Vietnamese or Chinese neighbors and friends who they could share (in some respects) a holiday with. The Asian neighborhoods in my city are very heterogenous.
In my opinion, this is more like people starting to say "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas". I think the change came from an instinct to be inclusive rather than attempting to hide because of the rise in anti-Asian violence. Most younger east Asian-Americans in the US are liberal and have, like white liberals, adopted the language of inclusion.
I doubt you'll agree, but my outlook on it isn't as dim as yours. Anecdotally, when I'm with my Chinese and Vietnamese friends in mixed company, they (and myself) tend to simply ask each other what they're doing for "new year" rather than bothering to say CNY for the Chinese friends or Tet for the Vietnamese friend.
Again, The Lunar rebranding is principally viewed from the outside POV. Of course Chinese people are not going to call the holiday “Chinese New Year” because it’s just the New Year.
The Lunar New Year is the Chinese New Year for the vast, vast majority of non-SE Asian Americans. CNN and company is not referring to “Lunar New Year” out of the goodness of their hearts but rather to further entrench the idea of ties to China as acts of treason. This is like if “Happy Holidays” referred to Christmas, and only Christmas.
If you go to most American calendar apps now, turning on Chinese Holidays gives you “Lunar New Year”. I think this is a key example.
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I don't think we're going to agree on this.
Happy New Year.
fuck off liberal.
Happy Chinese New Year
In my experience, the east Asian diaspora populations in the US express a significant amount of solidarity with each other.
This is not remotely true in my experience. At best, it's sorta true if you're talking about 2nd+ generations. For the 1st generation, a lot of the country beefs like China vs Korea traveled with them. I've had Korean people say that parts of Manchuria should be part of Korea, Chinese people constantly shitting on Japan for what they did during WWII, and so on. A lot of the provincial beefs Chinese people have with each other also traveled with them, so northerners vs southerners, waishengren vs benshengren, the Mainland vs Taiwan vs Hong Kong. Pretty much every specific East Asian group has their own church or temple, so the South Korean Christians go to their own church, the Taiwanese benshengren go to their own church, the Hong Kongers go to their own temple. There isn't a generic Asian church or temple that people of Asian descent go to.
Your experience is only Chinese and Vietnamese, and that honestly has more to do with the Chinese diaspora being traditionally from the South and part of the Vietnamese diaspora being Hoa, which is the ethnic Han diaspora in Vietnam that also came from the South. So, a Cantonese diaspora could get along with a Vietnamese diaspora with the Hoa/Cantonese Vietnamese acting as a bridge between the two communities. Mix in the more white-washed 2nd+ generation, and it's not hard to see intermingling between the two communities with Canto-Viet families that are still pretty in touch with their Asian roots. But a bunch of Beijingers or Northeasterners isn't going to mix well with the Vietnamese diaspora at all.
I think the 2nd generation bit is important, and may be the reason the nomenclature is shifting. 2nd generation asian-americans are making up a larger and larger portion of the asian community in the US.
At my college, by far the largest social club was AAA (Asian-American Association) and it was similarly pretty heterogenous, and they'd throw "Lunar New Year" events owing to their diverse membership.
Hilarious there are libs in here arguing with this and supporting sinophobia under the guise of “inclusivity”
Coming from exactly who you would expect it to come from too
The problem is that the US's conception of Lunar New Year is basically Chinese New Year, so it's very obvious that the push has more to do with malding over China than being inclusive. For example, giving kids red envelopes is largely done in Chinese New Year and Vietnamese New Year (Tet). For Japanese New Year, they have a totally different style of envelope and for Malaysia, the envelopes are green. So, if your "Lunar New Year" is just giving out envelopes of a particular design with a particular color, then it's more whitewashing than inclusivity. Different Lunar New Year has different traditions. Chinese New Year and Tet might share the same color envelopes, but the Chinese zodiac and Vietnamese zodiac are different. Last year was Year of the Rabbit in China but Year of the Cat in Vietnam, so if your "Lunar New Year" celebrates the year of the rabbit last year, then "Lunar New Year" isn't Tet because the rabbit isn't part of the Vietnamese zodiac. And as a final point, the Lunar New Year isn't universal, meaning it can fall on different days depending on what country you're talking about. So, it isn't a given that Chinese New Year and Tet fall on the same day and if your "Lunar New Year" perfectly matches the date of Chinese New Year, then "Lunar New Year" is just Chinese New Year.
You can see this in the 2023 Lunar New Year article from CNN: https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/lunar-new-year-2023-illustrated-guide-hnk-intl/index.html
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"Saying goodbye to the Tiger, we enter the Year of the Rabbit on January 22, 2023." Goes back to what I said about Tet being the Year of the Cat, so they're already excluding a particular lunar new year.
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The first graphic is just the basic aesthetics associated with Chinese New Year. Red is only the definitive lunar new year color for Chinese New Year and Tet. It's not particularly relevant for the other lunar new years. Eastern dragons aren't that prominent in the other lunar new years either. Some of the other zodiacs don't even have the dragon.
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The spring banner graphic. I mean, it's just stuff written in Chinese. People in Korea aren't hanging up red banners with Hanja lol. I don't even know if those Chinese phrases are meaningful in Korean Hanja.
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The food is just Chinese food. Every lunar new year has their own particular set of dishes to consume with their own particular symbolic meaning. Like, it would actually be inclusive if they had a dish for each different lunar new year, but it's just Chinese food for totally-not Chinese New Year.
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Going back to what I said earlier about red envelopes, that's largely a Chinese New Year and Tet thing.
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Xin nian kuai le and gung hei faat coi are just greetings in varieties of Chinese. One Japanese greeting during Japanese New Year per Wikipedia is kotoshi mo yoroshiku o-negai-shimasu. For Tet, Vietnamese people would say Chúc mừng năm mới. It isn't really inclusive if you only have traditional Chinese greetings in your article about not-Chinese New Year.
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Goes back to my earlier point about different Asian countries having different zodiacs. You can't really have a one-size fits all zodiac, so they settled for the Chinese zodiac.
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At the end of the article, we finally have acknowledgment that other Asian countries other than China exist. Like, they had a grand total of two sentences devoted to lunar new year traditions that aren't related to Chinese New Year.
Taken by itself, you could chalk this up to dumbass white people thinking Asia is just China, but given the geopolitical realities between the US and China and the role of MSM as a component of the state apparatus, as shown in the ridiculous weather balloon saga, we absolutely cannot give these dumbass white people the benefit of the doubt.
I would personally chalk it up more to the liberal language of inclusiveness rather than Sinophobia. I bet most liberals in the US are aware that the lunar new year is celebrated in other cultures, but know very little about those other celebrations. In this light I can see the instinct to be inclusive and then getting details wrong. I expect they see it as a "I should say happy holidays rather than Merry Christmas" sort of thing.
What's the adage? Never attribute to malice what could just as easily be attributed to ignorance?
Little personal anecdote: I used to live in the Bay Area and the town would put up banners that said "gung hay fat choy (sic)" on the lampposts around new year. Tonight I was coming home from the airport in my new city which has a much larger Vietnamese population and the little traffic advisory sign said "chuc mung nam moi".
What's the adage? Never attribute to malice what could just as easily be attributed to ignorance?
Taken by itself, you could chalk this up to dumbass white people thinking Asia is just China, but given the geopolitical realities between the US and China and the role of MSM as a component of the state apparatus, as shown in the ridiculous weather balloon saga, we absolutely cannot give these dumbass white people the benefit of the doubt.
Liberal language of inclusiveness and cultural melting pots is white supremacist and genocidal. The melting pot is a play put on in company towns where all the indigenous and different cultures would wear outfits from their original culture, go through “the crucible” where “all ethnicity is melted away” and come out the other side as identical clean cut Americans in suits.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Melting_Pot_(play)
Flattening cultural differences and making different cultures into one big blob is destruction of culture and genocidal in nature. Especially when it’s aimed at Asians and Chinese in 2024 you should be extremely suspect of White Liberals and diaspora Asians who have internalized White Supremacy and sinophobia conflating all Asians and destroying their culture and de-chinafying all Chinese culture.
This is why we teach tolerance and respect and honoring of different cultures. You should be interested to learn of other cultures, there should be healthy and organic cultural exchange, but active efforts to homogenize various cultures into one should be rejected.
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Except the Chinese calendar is not lunar, it's lunisolar. Also, dozens of other regions, cultures, and religions have their own lunar calendars which have new year's at a different time.
So by being "inclusive", not only is the term inaccurate, it also erases the lunar new years of other cultures.
I don't get it either. I'm from one of these countries that celebrate the Lunar New Year but live in the imperial core, and I've been to parties or gatherings with a mix of East asians celebrating and I don't think anyone there took issue with it being called Lunar New Year as a quick reference to the different holidays around the same time. You can phone your parents and use your own lingo then but when returning to English it really is no big deal?
I get the "Chinese" in CNY being a boogeyman thing for western whitewashed people, but personally as someone from East Asia I think Hexbear who think this is 100% a Sinophobic thing should log off and go to a new year party.
No it’s specifically made to de-Chinafy it and is clearly done via sinophobia due to the recent push.
Using “inclusion” to bulldoze and destroy culture is disgusting. It’s more inclusive to make Hanukkah non-Jewish amirite? Why don’t we just call it Candelabrah and make it non-denominational for everyone to be more inclusive :)
In this case, it's about an astronomical event. The Muslim calendar also uses it.
Are red envelopes and Chinese zodiac animals also an astronomical event? You can't have it both ways. You can't copy Chinese New Year verbatim and then change it's name to remove it's specific Chinese character.
Looks like Steam is doing the same thing. This does feel just a little bit like the War on Christmas complaint, though.
Christians aren’t an oppressed minority group or subject of colonization. Christmas is as dominant as ever, it’s not under threat or being attacked in any serious way.
Also, the war on Christmas complaint would have validity if a bunch of people from another dominant culture were trying to take it over and rename it and strip it of everything specifics. Having a broad term “happy holidays” for polite conversation that covers multiple holidays (Hanukkah, Christmas, Kwanzaa, Winter Solstice) is fine and different than specifically taking Christmas and renaming it and doing a massive push everywhere to stop calling it Christmas.
These are fair points.
Yeah, fair enough. I haven't seen the celebration yet.
fuck off back to whatever hole you crawled out of you cultureless neoliberal drone.
Touché
The Islamic Calendar doesn't celebrate new years on the same date as Chinese New Years. How fucking stupid are you?
What's this rage really about?
Guy whipping up a moral panic about "the woke left's war on Chinese new year" could be a funny bit.
I like it lol
They did the same thing last year
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How was last year my 2 favorite animals and it still sucked so hard?
Or maybe, it was WAY better than it could have been?
I guess the bunnies and kitties did their best
how can it be year of the rabbit AND year of the cat
China and Vietnam have different zodiacs.
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You cannot outrun the euphemism treadmill.
I've noticed this for a while too, the more gusano-filled a city is here the more they call it Lunar New Year instead of Chinese New Year
Most every other nation that celebrates it bases it off the Chinese New Year. It's been going on for thousands of years. It isn't something Mao invented. Good grief empire get a grip.
It's not even just the White House or whatever. I've seen a lot of mentions of "Lunar New Year" this year over "Chinese New Year." One need only look at the individual sales over on Steam. It's "$company Lunar New Year's Sale" this year. It's...kinda depressing for some reason. Probably cause the shift was unwarranted at the end of the day.
They called it lunar new year on steam at least as far back as 2019 because I have some emotes from then
Ah. Still makes me sad one way or the other.
It's literally compiled from astronomical observations and the calculations are based off of a specific longitude. Which governments make the compilation? The PRC and the ROC. What Longitude do they use? Beijing. Japan uses western New Years, I'm pretty sure Tet is a completely seperate holiday/date and the Koreans can go fuck themselves and make their own damn calendar.
Vietnamese, Mongolian, and Korean new years all fall under the same day generally. They'll have to start saying that they celebrate Chinese New Year under your standards then.
Read my comment on this thread. The reason it’s called Chinese New Year has nothing to do with China but that 农历 (agricultural calendar) had been translated into “Chinese calendar” in English for reasons. It literally means “agricultural calendar new year” in Chinese.
It is not accurate to call it Lunar New Year either (阴历新年, or the Yin calendar New Year) because the calendar dates of the agricultural calendar (农历) are calculated based on a combination of lunar (Yin) and solar (Yang) calendars.
I think you need to understand what I'm trying to say here. People on this website's so America-brained that they don't see the distinction between American politicians saying "Lunar New Year" on purpose to erase Chinese heritage of the tradition in America, and local people in Asia saying that they celebrate their variant of new year instead of celebrating Chinese cultural new year, which is literally cultural appropriation against Chinese people.
That is why there wasn't a pushback against your comment when I read it, yet there is one against oregoncom
OK fair enough that makes sense.
Literally nobody in Asia calls their particular new years "lunar new years". They have names for their new years (цаглабар, Tet, etc) Idk why you have to present this strange false dichotomy of calling it Chinese new years or using some bullshit liberal neologism.
Point out where I said that we should call it "lunar new year" or that they do so in Asia. You can't. You're so wrapped up in your head that you're not even reading what I wrote and responding instead of shadowboxing an imaginary construct that you think you read.
The Latin Alphabet is called the Latin alphabet even when it's used for English. Different languages use their own variants of the Latin alphabet, and when the differences matter then you say "English Alphabet" or "Spanish Alphabet". If you want collectively refer to all these alphabets then you would say "Latin Alphabet". The only reason you wouldn't say "Latin Alphabet" and come up with some neologism like "Phoneme Combination Script" is if you really didn't want to acknowledge where the Latin alphabet came from.
It's called Chinese Calendar for the same reason people call the gregorian calendar 西曆(western calendar). 農曆 is a neologism from after the gregorian calendar was adopted. Are you going to insist we do a literal translation of 漢語 instead of just saying Chinese? From now on I'm going to call the Latin Alphabet "west eurasian phoneme combination script".
Yes. They should.
Vietnam does their own calendar calculations (Based off of the Chinese calendar) and the longitude difference makes it fall on different days on certain years. The Koreans don't have their own calendar they literally use the Chinese calendar, specificly the most recent revision of it from the Qing dynasty. Mongolia uses a completely different calendar based off of the Tibetan one. Fuck off with your orientalist bullshit. All these places with the exception of Korea have seperate calendars and they already have different names for their new years. Koreans can call it Korean New Years when they make their own calendar like the Vietnamese did.
You do realize that China as a multiethnic state celebrates minority cultures like those of Tibetan, Mongolian, Korean, etc. (Even Vietnamese although they are a much smaller ethnic group) A guy who puts as his username the American state Oregon talking about Chinese culture. What a joke. When your first thought is Occupied Korea and how they measure the lunar year instead of Koreans in Yanbian, you need to fuck off and educate yourself.
It's the Chinese calendar not the Han calendar. The Chinese calendar is the product of the Multiethnic Chinese state. Historically one of the important functions of the Chinese state is to compile the calendar. This has been the case even in dynasties **run by ethnic minorities. ** such as aforementioned Qing dynasty. It's not my fault that English uses the same words to denote nationality and ethnicity. The fact that you just automatically assume anything called Chinese is automatically exclusive to Han Chinese is sus.
Countries that celebrate Chinese New Year do so because they were vassal states in the past (Korea, Vietnam, Japan Historically) or because they have a large Chinese diaspora (Singapore, Malaysia, which has both Hui and Han Chinese Diaspora). In the case of Vietnam, the Vietnamese state began doing their own calculations at some point, hence why I will acknowledge Tet as a seperate holiday. Vietnam is also an multiethnic state, and I doubt that only the Kinh majority celebrate Tet. Also, the first dynasty to introduce the Chinese calendar to Vietnam was the Mongol Yuan dynasty.
Occupied Korea doesn't have their own calendar, they went from being Qing Vassals directly to using the Gregorian Calendar during the Gabo Reforms of 1896. If you look up the article on "Korean calendar" on wikipedia, it will state straight up that it's the same as the Chinese calendar, which was last revised in the Qing dynasty. Only occupied Korea claims they celebrate a seperate holiday for nationalistic reasons. Ethnic Koreans in China would probably be offended if you told them that they're actually celebrating a different New Years than everyone else. In fact I don't think even the DPRK claims that there's a pre-Gregorian "Korean Calendar" seperate from the Chinese Calendar.
Minority groups that do have their own calendars also celebrate Chinese New Year since it's the Chinese New Year and not the Han new year. Mongolian and Tibetan New years usually (although not always) fall on seperate days. Ethnic Mongols in China also celebrate on a seperate day than people in Mongolia the country.
Japan's never been a vassal but you can correct me if I'm wrong on that part.
You're so used to seeing it through the eyes of a statist that you can't even fathom that people celebrating their new year comes before some Chinese officials compiled the calendar. Is the event in question the calendar or the celebration? You're purposefully misconstruing the argument as if it's about the calendar, not the celebration that indigenous people do in Asia as you are so removed from the people that you cannot even see this point.
Ethnic Koreans in China would probably be offended if you told them that they're actually celebrating a different New Years than everyone else.
Through personal relations to ethnically Yanbian Korean Chinese people, I can tell you that it is false. You keep talking about some calendar system as if that is what marks holidays, and you're so far as to gone to claim now that Koreans celebrate Chinese new year and that Vietnamese Tet has origins in different system of calendar measurement instead of people celebrating their new year the way they always did. Are you even listening to yourself? So by your standards, if Occupied Korea measures their own calendar, it's suddenly a different holiday? You're talking nonsense.
if Occupied Korea measures their own calendar, it's suddenly a different holiday?
Yes. otherwise they're all just some version of Chinese New Years. You have to draw the line somewhere. Christmas isn't a different holiday because they celebrate it in a different way in the Phillipines vs. the US.
Through personal relations to ethnically Yanbian Korean Chinese people,
Some dude from the Bay Area you met one time isn't a real argument. I'm literally from Northeastern China and my grandfather lived in an ethnic Korean village when he was younger. Nobody thinks ethnic Koreans are celebrating a seperate holiday because they don't have a seperate calendar. Why the fuck would their ethnicity magically make it so that they're celebrating a seperate holiday. Do you go up to black people and say "Happy African-American New Years!" on Jan 1st?
You're so used to seeing it through the eyes of a statist that you can't even fathom that people celebrating their new year comes before some Chinese officials compiled the calendar
The Chinese state is the only reason any of these people celebrate New Years wtf. The Chinese calendar is an inherently statist construct. It has been a statist concept for millennial before any group of people we would recognize as Korean even existed. The fact that it's so closely tied to the state is why Occupied Koreans insist on there being a non-existent "Korean Calendar" in the first place. You have no understanding of where anything comes from or what the actual cultural significance is, and do everything you can to water it down into some meaningless bullshit like those people who insist Christmas is a secular holiday.
How Koreans or anybody else celebrates it is is irrelevant to whether it's a seperate holiday. My family celebrates Chinese New Years by eating crab. Do I now get to demand that everyone have to wish me a happy Oregoncom New Year? The fact that people in Moscow celebrate the Gregorian New Year differently than people in New York doesn't mean that they're magically seperate holidays. The definition of a holiday is what they're celebrating not how.
You certainly have one of the strangest takes I've ever seen a person make.
I'm literally from Northeastern China and my grandfather lived in an ethnic Korean village when he was younger
Don't pass off your granddad's lived experience off as your own lol. It doesn't do anything to strengthen your argument besides making you look cringe in an effort to look authentic.
By your standards, Shogatsu is a different festival now that the date changed from the lunisolar calendar to the Gregorian. Obviously it's the same holiday tradition that is celebrated on a different date! I don't see how you're being so obstinate when it is crystal clear. People are not celebrating some calendar date, they are celebrating their traditional new year celebration that has been practiced for more than a millenia.
Shogatsu
That's my point exactly, nobody goes around saying "Happy Japanese New Years" on Jan 1st, because the Japanese are just celebrating Gregorian new years like everybody else. Them celebrating it the way they used to celebrate Japanese new years in the past didn't change that. Likewise with Russians, them carrying over traditions from celebrating Julian New Years doesn't mean they celebrate a different holiday from Jan 1st.
Don't pass off your granddad's lived experience off as your own lol. It doesn't do anything to strengthen your argument besides making you look cringe in an effort to look authentic.
One of my grandparents being raised by Chinese Koreans is more relevant than you knowing a random Chinese Korean guy lmao.
I see that we just have different definitions of what constitutes a holiday and it's useless arguing. But I will maintain that the point of a New Years celebration is to celebrate the New Year. If any holiday is dependent on the Calendar its based off of then it would be New Years.
