Here is September 19th's update! TLDR? Here's the summary.

Here is September 20th's update! TLDR? Here's the summary.

Here is September 21st's update! TLDR? Here's the summary.

Here is September 23rd's update! TLDR? Here's the summary.

Here is September 24th's update! TLDR? Here's the summary.

Links and Stuff

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Examples of Ukrainian Nazis and fascists, for the “buh Zeleski is a jew?!?!” people.

Examples of racism/euro-centrism during the Russia-Ukraine conflict

Add to the above list if you can, thank you.

Resources For Understanding The War Beyond The Bulletins

Defense Politics Asia's youtube channel and their map, who is an independent youtuber with a mostly neutral viewpoint.

Moon of Alabama, which tends to have good analysis (though also a couple bad takes here and there)

Understanding War and the Saker: neo-conservative sources but their reporting of the war (so far) seems to line up with reality better than most liberal sources.

Alexander Mercouris, who does daily videos on the conflict and, unlike most western analysts, has some degree of understanding on how war works. He is a reactionary, however.

On the ground: Patrick Lancaster, an independent journalist reporting in the Ukrainian warzones.

Unedited videos of Russian/Ukrainian press conferences and speeches.

Telegram Channels

Again, CW for anti-LGBT and racist, sexist, etc speech, as well as combat footage.

Pro-Russian

https://t.me/aleksandr_skif ~ DPR's former Defense Minister and Colonel in the DPR's forces. Russian language.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad ~ Gleb Bazov, banned from Twitter, referenced pretty heavily in what remains of pro-Russian Twitter.

https://t.me/asbmil ~ ASB Military News, banned from Twitter.

https://t.me/s/levigodman ~ Does daily update posts.

https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday Patrick Lancaster - crowd-funded U.S journalist, mostly pro-Russian, works on the ground near warzones to report news and talk to locals.

https://t.me/riafan_everywhere ~ Think it's a government news org or Federal News Agency? Russian language.

https://t.me/gonzowarr ~ Front news coverage. Russian langauge.

https://t.me/rybar ~ Russian language.

https://t.me/epoddubny ~ Russian language.

https://t.me/boris_rozhin ~ Russian language.

https://t.me/mod_russia_en ~ Russian Ministry of Defense.

https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses ~ Pro-Russian, documents abuses that Ukraine commits.

Pro-Ukraine

With the entire western media sphere being overwhelming pro-Ukraine already, you shouldn't really need more, but:

https://discord.gg/projectowl ~ Pro-Ukrainian OSINT Discord.

https://t.me/ice_inii ~ Alleged Ukrainian account with a rather cynical take on the entire thing.

Last week's discussion post.

  • AssadCurse [none/use name]
    ·
    2 years ago

    It’s a color revolution sparked by a lie. The woman who died just collapsed suddenly without anyone touching her, they have it on cctv in a public lobby.

    All the usual suspects and pro-west groups are involved in riling this up and boosting it.

      • AssadCurse [none/use name]
        ·
        2 years ago

        The initial protests were all saying she was beaten to death in custody. You, as well as I, know that these protests aren’t just randomly happening right now as shit pops off in Armenia, Tajikistan, Azerbaijan and Kyrgyzstan. Iran had moved troops to the border with Armenia to ward off Azeri aspirations (Azeri has imported all the Turkish/Syrian fascist jihadists and they are chomping at the bit for war).

        Get real, these laws have been in place for decades. This is coming to a head now, from a comprador group, for a reason. Because the fascist NATO alliance is calling in favors, and they will happily make Iran and Armenia into fascist jihadist bloodbaths if this is allowed to continue

        Iran should make a good faith show of reform, and if those efforts are swatted down and the rebels keep attacking the Iranian state they should and will be crushed as color revolutionaries

        • AssortedBiscuits [they/them]
          ·
          2 years ago

          Those MEK goons are 100% behind this bullshit. And some people here are lapping it up like obedient lapdogs as if we all didn't see what happened in Hong Kong.

          • AssadCurse [none/use name]
            ·
            2 years ago

            People don’t break into violent protests over medical aneurisms, they do it over murder. The initial Kurdish protesters claimed she was beaten to death, it was in their communications and chants. There was no murder here.

              • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                ·
                2 years ago

                https://www.iranintl.com/en/202209172983

                9/17/22 - London-based (lol) Iranian media claims she is killed with “blows to the head”

                https://www.npr.org/2022/09/21/1124237272/mahsa-amini-iran-women-protest-hijab-morality-police

                “Her father says she was beaten to death in custody”

                https://www.iranintl.com/en/202209165767

                Weird how a London-based gusano media org is the top reporting source on this for western press.

                  • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                    ·
                    2 years ago

                    How do statements from her father on 9/16/22 not qualify here? This is who sparked the unrest, and the London-based and other western funded media that pushed it, along with comprador groups within Iran

                      • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                        ·
                        2 years ago

                        If what you say is true, I hope Iran comes out with certain exemptions and reforms for Hijab law and morality laws, but somehow I think that wouldn’t matter. Just like Hong Kong protests this has passed the threshold where what sparked it has anything to do with what it has become. All anti-Iran pro-West groups are activated, they are going nuts right now with spook shit in Iran. Israel, Saudi Arabia and US.

                        So it started under false pretenses, an understandably bereaved father made a poor assumption. Then media kept running with it even after they know it’s false. Now western spooks and Israeli and jihadists are hitting the gas.

                        Sorry but this will be crushed. I hope there are some reforms but this particular type of violent protest is not going to work out here. It’s not principled

                          • anoncpc [comrade/them]
                            ·
                            2 years ago

                            2 policemen got killed already. 60 ambulance got trash. So call peaceful protest, america would activate national guard and shut those down . This is color revolution through and through, and the cause of it is from her previous surgery. Not trauma or got beat up.

                                • anoncpc [comrade/them]
                                  ·
                                  2 years ago

                                  Like, we could acab. But when you see the rioter trash ambulance, and burning, blocking traffic. Not sure why some users here support that.

                                  • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                                    ·
                                    2 years ago

                                    This is obvious Turkish provocation to pull Iran from defending Armenia, can’t believe people here are buying this shit. Over and over and over we have to live through “Arab springs” from “progressive” groups that suddenly turn into jihadists and Nazis.

                                    If this goes on much longer more and more people are going to die, and the jihadist element is going to grow stronger and stronger.

                                    • anoncpc [comrade/them]
                                      ·
                                      2 years ago

                                      Tbf, only 2 to 3 users buying this shite, but they pretty sus though. Red flag all over the place when they defend the destruction and rioter action. I think Iran will be fine since they already have experience containing this type of CR and the govt seem confident, but this one might be a bit bloody though.

                                  • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                                    ·
                                    2 years ago

                                    Yeah he should have sided with jihadist fascists instead. Iran is the most progressive and anti-imperialist force in the region and you are being chauvinist

                                  • anoncpc [comrade/them]
                                    ·
                                    2 years ago

                                    There’s many more that the user documents. Burning and harming peoples is not really peaceful, especially based on a lie. Same with Vietnam few years ago when they go in soldier barrack and attempted to burn it down, thankfully Vietnamese peoples respect the army, or thing would go south fast

                                  • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                                    ·
                                    2 years ago

                                    How are you this credulous time and time again. When the seasoned old tankies say color revolution why won't you believe us.

                                  • Civility [none/use name]
                                    ·
                                    2 years ago

                                    "Wow, I sure hope those cops, that were attacked in riots sparked over their enforcement of theocratic fascist laws, are okay"

                                    -statement by a principled communist

                                        • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                                          ·
                                          2 years ago

                                          Nobody said it was. Neither was the Syrian, Ukrainian (pre-Maidan) or Libyan states. The color revolts still were filled with imperialist compradors and fascists that would take power.

                                            • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                                              ·
                                              2 years ago

                                              What part of revolutionary defeatism and avoiding imperialist intrigue are you having trouble with?

                                              • Civility [none/use name]
                                                ·
                                                2 years ago

                                                I'm not a yank.

                                                But revolutionary defeatism doesn't mean opposing good movements on the other side, even if they weaken your state's enemies.

                                                During WW1, Lenin didn't oppose the German or Russian communist movements, despite living in Germany, coming from Russia, and both nations being on opposite sides of the war, and both movements aiming to overthrow their governments through civil war.

                                                Hoping Iranian movements fail for the sake of promoting revolutionary conditions wherever you are is profoundly selfish.

                                                • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                                                  ·
                                                  2 years ago

                                                  Good movements

                                                  This is Daesh. Israeli and Saudi backed fascists are here too.

                                                  https://t.me/mangopress/9908

                                                  Do “good movements” raise the flag of Turkish fascists? I’m guessing you weren’t around for the start of the Syrian civil war or the overthrow of Gaddafi. Radlibs like you said they were “good movements” too. All jihadists, tankies are always right

                                                    • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                                                      ·
                                                      2 years ago

                                                      The western left is infested with social fascist that support color revolutions and jihadists and fascists abroad

                                                      • Civility [none/use name]
                                                        ·
                                                        2 years ago

                                                        If you don't support the pigs who arrested a woman for wearing a hijab too loosely you're supporting jihadists and fascists!

                                                        • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                                                          ·
                                                          2 years ago

                                                          You supported the protests against Assad and Gaddafi too (they aren’t communist either after all). Don’t even bother denying it, you were on chapotraphouse calling people tankies and assadists and you have learned nothing

                                                          • Civility [none/use name]
                                                            ·
                                                            2 years ago

                                                            Happily, I've never had a reddit account.

                                                            That this is triggering your "this is just like what happened on reddit back in 2011!" memories is definitely a massive :blob-stop: sign this isn't going anywhere good.

                                                            I think we probably both need to spend less time getting into internet shitfights with strangers on the internet about politics in places neither of us live.

                                                            I hope you enjoy the rest of your day.

                              • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                                ·
                                2 years ago

                                https://t.me/mangopress/9887

                                Video of the mosque burning

                                https://t.me/mangopress/9892

                                61 ambulances belonging to the ministry of health were sabotaged during the recent events.

                                • Iranian Ministry of Health

                                https://t.me/mangopress/9905

                                Photo evidence

                                https://t.me/mangopress/9902

                                  • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                                    ·
                                    2 years ago

                                    Iranian government is making official statements, these are ministry of health, 17 people have been killed per Al-Alam. Green Mosque in Rasht was burned, 3 were stabbed in front of Tabriz mosque in Tabriz (2 police officers and Hossein Ojaghi, a local)

                                    This is such obvious color revolt Maidan/Hong Kong shit

                                      • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                                        ·
                                        2 years ago

                                        here's a bunch of fascists on :reddit-logo: celebrating the burning in a new "Maidan" in Iran

                                        https://www.reddit.com/r/N_N_N/comments/xjko5i/breaking_video_burning_of_the_green_mosque_in/

                                        This is what you are defending

                                          • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                                            ·
                                            2 years ago

                                            can you read farsi?

                                            https://www.rajanews.com/news/360882/آتش-زدن-مسجد-و-تعرض-ناجوانمردانه-به-خانم%E2%80%8Cها-در-برخی-مناطق-منافقین-و-سازمان%E2%80%8Cیافته%E2%80%8Cها-وارد

                                            https://vista.ir/n/hob9l3c

                                            https://www.mehrnews.com/news/5595600/تجمع-رشتوندان-در-محکومیت-آتش-زدن-مسجد-سبزه-میدان

    • jontifa [he/him]
      ·
      2 years ago

      All the usual suspects and pro-west groups are involved in riling this up and boosting it.

      But isn’t that an inevitability? As long as the American/Western Empire exists, its media and intelligence agencies will latch on to any instability within opposing nations, regardless if it’s manufactured or organic. Can we really compel actual Iranians to sit tight and wait for the West to fall (whenever that’ll finally happen) before doing any activism just because we critically support their current leadership?

      Even if they jumped the gun on making assumptions about this women’s death, it seems more than reasonable to protest against religious fundamentalism in your government. I mean it’s more understandable than the HK rioters, who were pretty openly stooges of Western fascists. I’ll never openly ally myself with all the NGO’s and American politicians that are trying to take advantage of the situation, but I’m not sure I can explicitly oppose people trying to improve their day-to-day lives.

      It’s unfortunate, but I feel like the only thing I can do is to hope this movement doesn’t completely throw itself to the West, as futile as that might be. Maybe the impact of US sanctions might create a more independent opposition, but that’s probably wishful thinking. I’m just not sure this community’s response should be to demonize the on-the-ground protestors, and I don’t think that makes me a radlib

      • AssadCurse [none/use name]
        ·
        2 years ago

        This is what people said at the start of the Egyptian, Syrian, Libyan Arab springs. It’s what they said during the color revolutions in Belarus and Kazakhstan. When the pressure of the imperialists and colonizers are besieging you, you can’t give in.

        • jontifa [he/him]
          ·
          2 years ago

          you can’t give in

          But what does that mean for actual Iranians? Should the women there just shut up and keep wearing the hijab as they’re forced to? It’s not like these religious laws are a necessary ingredient for resisting the West (China sure as hell doesn’t have them). Why can’t we want Khamenei to be more like Xi? I mean I’m a party to leftist infighting as much as the next Hexbear user, so why is that off-limits for other people? (not saying all the protesters are leftists obv)

          • AssadCurse [none/use name]
            ·
            2 years ago

            It’s not the Iranian women in this protest. It’s fascist militants killing people. A peaceful, reformist protest I would support. Not this color revolution chaos that brings instability, violence, jihadism to the most relatively progressive force in the Middle East

            • SlashThat [any]
              ·
              2 years ago

              No, it’s people rioting against police brutality. If this happened in any western country you would be cheering right now, but at this point it’s clear that many leftists view Iranians not as people but pawns in a game of geopolitics.

              A communist calling for peaceful reformist protests against police brutality, fucking shameful.

              • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                ·
                2 years ago

                the case of "police brutality" that sparked it was fake though

                if this happened in any western country you would be cheering

                of course, fuck the west. Iran is a relatively progressive, anti-imperialist force and an ally to the AES bloc and this is obviously not good faith protesters but violent people seeking regime change. Perhaps I need to remind you of the concepts of critical support, imperialism is the primary contraction & your duty to be a revolutionary defeatist and avoid imperialist intrigue.

                • SlashThat [any]
                  ·
                  2 years ago

                  The cause doesn't matter. Protests don't work like that. If we found out today that George Floyd died of other causes the protests would still be just as valid, because they are about a larger, systemic issue.

                  If the Iranian people seek regime change then that is their business. What you really mean is that Iran's current government is useful in the larger struggle against US Imperialism and that means that no matter what they inflict on the Iranian working class they should know their place and suffer through it. Only westerners are allowed the privilege of self-determination.

                      • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                        ·
                        2 years ago

                        Yes so when Iran's government crushes this you will respect their sovereignty and keep to yourself right?

                        Iranians have self determination right now, they are one of the only nations in the world who do. What these protesters and compradors want is an elimination of Iranian sovereignty and submission to the global NATO caliphate

                        • SlashThat [any]
                          ·
                          2 years ago

                          I support the Iranian working class, not the bourgeois state. It's called being a communist.

                          Here is a good resource, in case you're unfamiliar with the term: https://www.marxists.org Start with Marx and work your way up.

                          • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                            ·
                            2 years ago

                            I support anti-imperialist nations allied with AES against imperialist coups, just like in Syria, Belarus and Kazakshtan

                            Start with Lenin

                            For the Socialist of another country cannot expose the government and bourgeoisie of a country at war with “his own” nation, and not only because he does not know that country’s language, history, specific features, etc., but also because such exposure is part of imperialist intrigue, and not an internationalist duty.

                            He is not an internationalist who vows and swears by internationalism. Only he is an internationalist who in a really internationalist way combats his own bourgeoisie, his own social-chauvinists, his own Kautskyites.

                            (b) In every country the Socialist [me] must above all emphasise in all his propaganda the need to distrust not only every political phrase of his own government, but also every political phrase of his own social-chauvinists [this is you, don't laugh!], who in reality serve that government [anglo-american empire].

                            https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/dec/25.htm

                            • SlashThat [any]
                              ·
                              2 years ago

                              I agree completely, which is why I don’t support sanctions or any form of intervention by western states. I also don’t publicly repeat the things I believe because I know liberals will interpret them in an imperialist framework.

                              But, that doesn’t mean I have to stray from my principles as a communist and pretend that any protest in such a country is illegitimate. The government of Iran is oppressive like in any other capitalist state and I won’t deny the Iranian working class their right to fight against it. Nor will I pretend that the state is anything but that.

                              This is a communist forum full of other communists. Nothing I say here will embolden Imperialist policy in any way, so no harm can come of me saying I support the protests.

                              • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                                ·
                                2 years ago

                                this isn't a working class protest and if it goes on you will unfortunately see that I'm right. we've been around the block too many times and seen this too many times before.

                              • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                                ·
                                2 years ago

                                These reforms are not directly linked to or caused by the riots, which were cracked down on sharply. As I hope Iran does here. If the riots in Kazakhstan were allowed to fester, it would become a reactionary fascist state like Libya. Xi and Kim Jong Un understand this, but for some reason western leftists cannot

                  • CyborgMarx [any, any]
                    ·
                    2 years ago

                    The Iranian working class are not the ones rioting, which is why this will fail like all the other color revolution attempts

                    This may come as a shock to our resident west-heads but the Iranian gov enjoys a large amount of buy-in with its working class despite the unpopularity of certain laws

                    The Iranian working class arent stupid they dont want to overthrow their government and end up like their neighbors, so ironically you kinda kneecaped and muted your own point there

                    • SlashThat [any]
                      ·
                      2 years ago

                      There really is no point in this discussion. I have yet to see a single protest in a western-opposed country that wasn’t labelled a Color Revolution by misguided MLs so that label already lost its meaning long ago. I am also eagerly waiting to just once hear the critical part of critical support and that hasn’t happened either.

                      I have a lot of family in Iran and am well aware of the internal situation. If the Iranian working class do not want to overthrow their government then that is fine and at no point did I say otherwise.

                      • CyborgMarx [any, any]
                        ·
                        2 years ago

                        I have yet to see a single protest in a western-opposed country that wasn’t labelled a Color Revolution

                        Cuba, Bolivia, Hong Kong, Iran, Kazakhstan, Libya, Syria, Belarus all open and proven examples of protest "movements" being completely funded and backed by western private/governmental fronts, the MLs use the label color revolution because it accurately describes the actual existing reality of a global hegemony enforced by a single superpower and its allies, this shit ain't a conspiracy bruh it's all out in the open ML's literally have the receipts in many cases

                        Also you don't just get to demand everyone else have the perfect take that completely satisfies every removedling doubt you have, if you disagree with the ML model then you're obligated to present an alternative analysis of geopolitics that explains the current state of things

                        Of course when anti-MLs try to do that they inevitably end up having to deal with those ML receipts one way or another, and it usually ends up with them making an incoherent garbled mess of an argument that gets basic facts wrong; like the fact the Iranian working class is one of the government's strongest power blocks....shit that even a US think tank would admit to

                        You claim to have family there and know the internal situation but basic stuff like that just slipped your mind? Kinda susssy

                        • SlashThat [any]
                          ·
                          2 years ago

                          I am well aware that the US is constantly interfering in everything that happens in those countries. That is not news.

                          But it is possible for there to be legitimate anti-government protests in those countries. And no matter what, the US will try to steer/ agitate and otherwise use that movement for their benefit. Because that’s what they always do. But that doesn’t invalidate the protests itself. Because if it did, then logically there can never be a legitimate protest in those countries.

                          In the end it has no real bearing on anything since all we can do is oppose sanctions and interventions from our own countries and that is what I am already doing so my exact feelings for those states don’t really matter.

                          But I am not a native speaker and to be honest these long discussions are incredibly exhaustingly if you can’t express yourself properly. So I’m okay with leaving it there.

                          • CyborgMarx [any, any]
                            ·
                            2 years ago

                            And no matter what, the US will try to steer/ agitate and otherwise use that movement for their benefit. Because that’s what they always do. But that doesn’t invalidate the protests itself

                            Do you realize how insane this proposition sounds to people on the ground in those countries? I'm sorry but the minute it becomes widespread knowledge the protest movements are funded and backed by hostile outside powers they are immediately invalidated to the vast majority of the population, especially the working class, again they are not stupid, they are not dupes who are tricked easily, countries who oppose US hegemony tend to be countries under siege, this understandably results in alot of nationalism so movements led by rich Westernized exile don't get much buy-in from the population who are living under western sanctions

                            Legitimate protests do take place, difference is they're not reported by western media corporations

                      • AssadCurse [none/use name]
                        ·
                        2 years ago

                        Name one time the MLs were wrong and it wasn’t a color revolution. We have been consistently correct about these things, and eventually the radlibs come around and admit it (like in Syria, Libya, Hong Kong, Belarus, Cuba, Bolivia, etc where each and every time radlibs say it’s a real “working class” revolution and get proven wrong by the tankie hardliners as time goes on, and those goldfishbrained radlibs move onto the next op without any pattern recognition)

                        • anoncpc [comrade/them]
                          ·
                          2 years ago

                          We currently have a war right now because of a color revolution but people still somehow have doubt about it. It's funny since america are sanctioning Iran to shite right now, but most international iranian not protest against that, but riot and causing chaos over fake news.

              • CyborgMarx [any, any]
                ·
                2 years ago

                This is the same energy that said we should have supported the Jan 6 protests because a cop shot one of them, complete bullshit both the MEK scum and the Iranian pigs can get bent

                  • CyborgMarx [any, any]
                    ·
                    2 years ago

                    Neither are the current Iranian protests, neither are organic, both were backed by big money and both were defined by a police response, or to be more accurate defined by a certain violent response towards the police, so the comparison stands

            • jontifa [he/him]
              ·
              2 years ago

              so the argument is that absolutely every protester is an agent of the West and that the whole thing’s astro-turfed? that not a single Iranian woman truly opposes the morality laws and that none of them have ever wanted to organize? how will we know when that’s not the case? is it even possible for a protest in Iran to not be a color revolution?

              • SeventyTwoTrillion [he/him]M
                ·
                2 years ago

                is it even possible for a protest in Iran to not be a color revolution?

                I think the issue is that every significant protest in 'bad authoritarian country that the West hates' was either started by intelligence agencies (the relatively recent protests in Cuba come to mind, the ones before the much more massive rallies in support of the Cuban government) or will be co-opted by them to suite their goals.

                So in a sense, the answer to that question is "no", but the answer to:

                so the argument is that absolutely every protester is an agent of the West and that the whole thing’s astro-turfed?

                is also "no". Like, the point being made isn't that Iranians don't have very legitimate grievances with their government and want some changes - of course they do, virtually every person on earth wants their own government to do things better, Iranians are no different - it's just to say that there's a ton of nuance that we have to have when talking about these governments and the protests they face as they oppose the global hegemony that historically has, and currently can and will destabilize them internally by any means necessary.

      • Commiejones [comrade/them, he/him]
        ·
        2 years ago

        But isn’t that an inevitability? As long as the American/Western Empire exists, its media and intelligence agencies will latch on to any instability within opposing nations,

        Not quite. The west will only latch onto instability when it serves their purposes. They don't just do revolutions any time its easy. The Arab spring was timed to get the US out of the "great recession." It allowed them to make some quick money off stolen oil and distract USAians from the fallout of the recession domestically. I remember Occupy protestors talking about Libya and Tunisia like they were a good thing.

        • jontifa [he/him]
          ·
          2 years ago

          when would destabilizing Iran not serve Western purposes? obviously there is some kind of operational tempo wrt intervention/spook shit that waxes and wanes, but i fail to see why the US would simply pass up an opportunity for chaos. literally any protest activity in Iran can be co-opted by Western interests, which tbf is something to be wary about.

          but i don’t think the appropriate response is to bar all Iranians from ever protesting or doing activism. the existence of bad-faith actors doesn’t give Iranians some moral obligation to comply with unjust laws. i just don’t feel it’s at all reasonable to tell people living outside the West to just hunker down and take the flak until communism wins.

    • GorbinOutOverHere [comrade/them]
      ·
      2 years ago

      The woman who died just collapsed suddenly without anyone touching her, they have it on cctv in a public lobby.

      CIA heart attack gun??