Prior to the conflict, I wasn't a fan of liberals. But at least they were better than conservatives because they didn't want to glass the Middle East, protested against the Iraq war, made fun of right wing bullshit on Fox News, and didn't want to gun down Muslims or Hispanics. Or so I thought.
Liberals have gone full :frothingfash: and are literally regurgitating 1930s Nazi talking points about the Slavs. As I Russian speaker, I stopped going on most subreddits now due to the obscene racism. I've seen shit ranging from "Aktually, Ruzzians are not white or European" to "Lets break Russia up and commit mass ethnic cleansing". It's not even just Russians, I've seen a massive surge in racist posts about Chinese and Indian people since the war started.
Liberals are literally swallowing the most inane nonsense from Ukraine like "Russian orcs shocked at seeing toilets for the first time". And lets not forget the "Russian brainpan too smol to launch nukes so lets nuke them ourselves" posts all over :reddit-logo:
Anyone who even remotely suggests that we shouldn't arm and send 16 year old Ukrainians to be blown up in human wave attacks is called a Kremlin agent.
Amazingly, many right-wingers like Peterson or Candace Owens have better takes on the situation than liberals do. Does anyone have an explanation for this?
Liberals are literally swallowing the most inane nonsense from Ukraine like “Russian orcs shocked at seeing toilets”
https://i.imgflip.com/6xxpaw.jpg
Why did the Ukraine War unhinge liberals so much?
because liberals are unironically NPCs, and form opinions about things which they are literal kindergarteners in via "Garbage in Garbage out"ing social media and accepted (aka westoid) news sites
Amazingly, many right-wingers like Peterson or Candace Owens have better takes on the situation than liberals do. Does anyone have an explanation for this?
because Russia is white and non-communist, which satisfies both the racial desires and the capital desires of the rulers (and their Non-White stooges)
It occurs to me that some people on this hexagonal ursine website might be too young to remember the Iraq War, but yeah this is the exact kind of slavering bloodlust that swept the nation then too
As an old who remembers those days starting in 2001 well, I totally agree - with one exception...
...This is worse. There's been a total and utter lack of any visable opposition ot this war or escalating conflict in general, the media consesus is far stronger, and notions of acceptable thought have narrowed far more than back then (unless you're some nazi-adjacent crackpot grifter).
Liberals have always been bloodthirsty, uncritically nationalist flag wavers for atrocity with the benefit of a 'just war' narrative. But I also think people are still underestimating the effects of a 20 year project of extreme media consolidation, the mainstreaming and control of the interent, and history's biggest ever domestic propaganda misinformation campaign over the last decade. The scope and ability of that last one especially puts anything the McCarthy era could have considered to absolute shame.
This. The Iraq War provoked one of the largest anti-war movements in US history. The Media simply ignored it entirely. They never talked about it and never aired footage of it. The media blackout was so complete that I don't think the average person even knows it happened. But it did.
This time there doesn't seem to be any anti-war resistance, at all. It really feels like it's literally just us.
Cindy Sheehan, grieving mother of a son killed in Iraq, demanded that the US military not only pull out of Iraq but out of New Orleans as well, calling it "occupied New Orleans." She has chased the headlines to the Algiers section of New Orleans to regain her place in the spotlights. Cindy writes of her experience:
"One thing that truly troubled me about my visit to Louisiana was the level of the military presence there. I imagined before that if the military had to be used in a CONUS (Continental US) operations that they would be there to help the citizens: Clothe them, feed them, shelter them, and protect them. But what I saw was a city that is occupied. I saw soldiers walking around in patrols of 7 with their weapons slung on their backs. I wanted to ask one of them what it would take for one of them to shoot me."
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/cindy-sheehan/a-bright-spot-in-bush-wor_b_7433.html
Yeah. I was an adult when it started and it's very fuzzy for me. I can't imagine younger people remember a lot of the details and how incredibly jingoistic and vicious people got overnight.
because liberals are unironically NPCs, and form opinions about things which they are literal kindergarteners in via "Garbage in Garbage out"ing social media and accepted (aka westoid) news sites
OK so this is what I thought too, but then I saw opinion polling of Germans towards Russia and China and they are not nearly as propagandized as USAmericans. What gives? Is German media just not blasting anti-China and anti-Russia propaganda 24/7?
Germany has been trying to decouple from America for the past 15 years or so. The only other trading block they could be part of while maintaining their productive output is Russia/China.
Even if their leadership is now fully in on NATO, the rank and file workers know that their best bet for independence from empire is close relations with Russia and China. This war has solidified that as Russia has the cheap energy they need to keep their factories open while America is price gouging to maintain its own bloated domestic profitability.
Germany was only slightly sane thanks to the DDR. It would've been a worse hell world if Germany was united and capitalist since ww2.
Americans are unique. Their entire history is that of colonialism, exploitation, and anti-communism. Their culture is plainly and simply anti-communism and pro-capitalism. It is shaped entirely by the most masterful propaganda campaign the world has ever seen. If they hadn't done the bare minimum and had Goebbels killed, I would say the americans brought him over and did it. The Americans are normal people with access to a fair bit of resources. They are almost normal and average neoliberals.
Except when it gets political.
When it gets political, or more specifically, when their media gets political, the masses are codified into the perfect system to point and direct them to each necessary political agenda. They in-fight on internal issues, sure, they support radical issues sure. But the infighting is always dragged out instead of diffused. The radicalism, instead of even addressed, pacified and co-opted into simple, easy nothings. When America needs to demonize, the American people are right there beside it. When America needs the people to forget, the people forget. When America needs a war, the people are ready for war. This is not new, this has been happening for generations. Even we truly anti-American leftists still have the vestiges of this great brainwashing eating away at us, its catchphrases and carefully programmed trains of thought gnawing away at our minds. It may never be truly broken in the near future, and it will affect our personal ways of thought for the rest of our lives.
Germany was only fully incorporated into this sphere of propaganda recently, and even then, their leaders are afraid that the US has such dominion over the minds of the people. The Bourgeoisie of Germany and the USA are in a state of conflict and that is a reason why they aren’t as Americentric. There’s also the fact that Germany is still suffering from generational trauma of the last few times they tried to go to war with anyone, so their population is rightfully hesitant about being a part of another one. But their opinion matters little more than that of the lowly american. They agree for the most part, so they are a part of the great political engine that grinds toward our downfall. They are also at the mercy of their own Bourgeoisie dictatorship, and thus have little power over anything done at all.
Even we truly anti-American leftists still have the vestiges of this great brainwashing eating away at us, its catchphrases and carefully programmed trains of thought gnawing away at our minds.
Word. "You are not immune to propaganda" should be tattooed on the inside of everyone's eyelids, it's so important.
It’s comforting to think that my worst impulses are not my own thoughts, which makes this train of thought very dangerous. How do I walk the line between taking responsibility for my own actions and recognizing when someone else is choosing my actions for me?
Other people are modifying what you see, but you can still find your way through it. The actions you take are your own unless there us no way for you to learn the truth before acting.
It’s good to know that 100% of me is myself… and depressing to know that my cruelest impulses are within my control to stop, and I just don’t.
Okay, and? Like, you didn't ask me for a plan, you bemoaned the fact you are responsible for your own actions. Stop being a coward and step up. I don't know what you have to do to achieve that because I don't know your life story. Changing for the better is easy because every single better action you take, even the smallest, is a move to a better you. They add up over time.
I’ll gladly stop being a coward. I’ll also not believe in this weird secular original sin where it’s impossible for a westerner to be a real leftist.
Is German media just not blasting anti-China and anti-Russia propaganda 24/7?
It absolutely is, but we have a different material relation to the war because it is just two countries away from us, a million Ukrainian refugees are here, our gas prices are soaring, a pipeline that was a Russian-German project got blown up, we're a vassal state instead of being the center of the empire and so on. It affects us more directly than it affects Americans. The war is so close that many of the people that fled it just drove here in their car. It has suddenly become a normal, everyday thing to see UA license plates when you're driving. And while US propaganda is nothing new here, it is a relatively recent development that it has been this intense. During the Iraq war, there was widespread opposition here, and that absolutely included the press. There's nothing like that anymore, even critical journalists have been successfully muzzled and need to hide their criticism of UA behind a thick layer of jingoism. For example, i recently read an article about the dire situation of LGBT soldiers in the Ukrainian army. As gay marriage is illegal there, people can't even burry their partner when he has fallen in battle. Many have to completely hide who they are. But instead of calling that out openly, it was burried deep in the article, which started out with emphasizing how patriotic the queer community in Ukraine is. It just went on and on telling us how much the gays love fighting for a state that constantly oppresses them. As a cherry on top, the whole thing was illustrated with a picture of a car flying rainbow and Ukrainian flags. Absolutely sickening how they instrumentalize LGBT people and pinkwash Selenski's reactionary regime. Stuff like that is very common now. And it used to be totally different. When the US made up its lies about Iraqi WMDs, our press very publically called that out. When the US went to war, they explained concepts like embedded journalism, told readers expressly to view info from the USA with a huge grain of salt and pointed out the propagandistic dimension of American news coverage. That was just 20 years ago. We now see that America has made sure to never let that happen again.
But some people remember. You're not gonna notice it in a comment section under one of these propaganda articles, where warmongering libs cheer each other on in their vitriolic hatred for Putin while nazis sneak in and use the opportunity to spread revisionism like the "double holocaust" narrative. But when i talk to people in person, i see opposition to the war all across the political spectrum. From communists to radlibs to socdems to conservatives. Unfortunately the most vocal opposition comes from the far right, where it is not driven by an opposition to imperialism, but by nationalism, hatred for refugees that easily rivals the russophobia of libs and a glowing support of Putin's most reactionary policies. There is mobilization for anti-war protests from both the left and the right (and the left mostly pays close attention to not be infiltrated and avoid a "querfront" type situation), but as of now, the cryptofash who already built up a strong presence on the street during the anti-mask protests are seemlessly moving over to pro-Russia protests, sometimes including assaults on Ukrainian passersby.
It's a messy and complicated situation here. Very hard to agitate against the war outside of far right brigades. I've tried, but i found that thought-out, analytical, sourced posts critical of the US propaganda are more likely to be removed than the most shallow pro-Russia posting that just treats this war as a team sport where they're stanning the out-of-town team. There's an active effort to only allow reactionary opposition to be platformed, as that makes it easier to uphold the lie that this is a fight between a progressive defender and a reactionary aggressor when it's actually two reactionary powers struggling over their spheres of influence. The biggest callout of the war early on came from Alice Schwarzer, the most influential terf in Germany. The press uses these people so they can uphold the illusion of pluralism and impartiality while at the same time being able to discredit any critics as chuds.
During the Iraq war, there was widespread opposition here, and that absolutely included the press. There’s nothing like that anymore, even critical journalists have been successfully muzzled and need to hide their criticism of UA behind a thick layer of jingoism.
Call me paranoid, but I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if the CIA hadn’t gained a significant amount of ground in infiltrating European media since the Iraq War. They also have plants in positions of editorial control at social media sites including Reddit. Basically an extension of what they started with Operation Mockingbird and Operation Earnest Voice is used to manufacture opinion on forums and social media sites through the use of sock puppet accounts.
We know FiveEyes is all spying on each other's citizens and sharing information and that the NSA had even compromised Merkel's most secure communication equipment.
For example, i recently read an article about the dire situation of LGBT soldiers in the Ukrainian army. As gay marriage is illegal there, people can’t even burry their partner when he has fallen in battle. Many have to completely hide who they are. But instead of calling that out openly, it was burried deep in the article, which started out with emphasizing how patriotic the queer community in Ukraine is. It just went on and on telling us how much the gays love fighting for a state that constantly oppresses them. As a cherry on top, the whole thing was illustrated with a picture of a car flying rainbow and Ukrainian flags. Absolutely sickening how they instrumentalize LGBT people and pinkwash Selenski’s reactionary regime.
This is an extremely precise strategy honestly, it makes Russians and the rest of the third world continue to embrace reactionary views and hate these minorities even more giving them an excuse to throw even more of those bodies on the line. The whole Russian society is already socially conservative and the anti-lgbtq narrative is only getting stronger.
Given the material they are exposed to e.g "just look at these brave gay people fighting alongside my enemy" [insert glorious western media article about it here], not justifiable but easily explainable and as I said exactly according to the plan.
we’re a vassal state instead of being the center of the empire and so on.
See, I disagree with this usage. A vassal pays their liege lord for protection. This is precisely the opposite with USA and Germany; the USA pays Germany handsomely with a gargantuan trade surplus and free defense. It's bribes. That Germany should be reflexively anti-American rubs Americans the wrong way and just results in mutual loathing.
That's a good start. The surplus is something like $60 billion every single year. Besides, that money just goes to the military-industrial complex anyway.
Wow, thank you for such the extensive response. This is really useful for understanding the situation.
Germany has some of the most blatant propaganda and was run by nazis, but part of it was literally orthodox communist till 1989, some of that lingers
German media is currently blasting anti-China and anti-Russia propaganda almost all the time (though possibly still less than in the US), but it wasn't always this one sided. Many capitalists here have benefited from the business with the east since cold war times. Some have been trying to do their own independent policies, probably because they think they don't need their liege anymore, and can strike out on their own for greater profit. Also the allies did try to subdue German militarism leading to the opposite of the hammer → nail logic, i.e. German capital went very hard on the soft power train and that has worked pretty well for them so far.
So these interests are reflected in the German media. There are real differences in material interest vs the US. Doesn't mean Germans are any less propagandized.
Is German media just not blasting anti-China and anti-Russia propaganda 24/7?
Probably. Americans have a huge cultural disadvantage because we've been indoctrinated our whole lives to believe that we're immune to propaganda, that the news doesn't do propaganda, and that even if the government is lying to us it doesn't try to propagandize us.
Look at how the Libs reacted to Russiagate. If I recall correctly the initial allegation was that Russia spent something paltry like 200,000 dollars on targeted ads, and the Liberals lost their goddamn minds. They were utterly obsessed for years and years on end. It was all over the media, it dominated their analysis of the election. And even if it was true the way they thought it was it was a drop in the ocean. Hillary spent an unprecedented one billion dollars on her campaign. No reasonable person would believe that the tiny amount of ad buy Russia did would tip the scales.
They were also in complete denial about the nature of the American electorate. Many of them simply refused to believe that the GOP's core voters really were exactly as mean, cruel, racist, and committed as they appeared. They couldn't accept that their idealistic, unrealistic vision of America could elect someone like Trump, so they grasped on to any explanation but the truth. Bernie bros, ignorant rural voters, Russian interference. But the simple truth they failed to accept was that the petiti bourgeoisie wanted Trump, they voted for Trump, and Trump got enough votes in America's stupid election system to win.
Americans taken as a whole have very little media literacy and are not skeptical about the media they consume. Whatever you put in front of them, if it confirms their biases, they just uncritically accept without a second thought.
I assume that at least some nations in Europe just don't have as intense of a propaganda saturation as the US. I also suspect being outside the core of the Evil Empire gives people a little more perspective to see that America is full of shit.
I have had libs deny straight to my face the exit polling showing that the median Trump voter makes above the national median income and is college educated. Like straight up denying official data that shows that Republicans aren't toothless trailer trash from the hinterlands, but instead their nice well mannered petit bourgeois neighbors. They get incredibly mad.
War under my team president = FUCK YES
War under other team president = kinda cringe, tbh.
This is as far as propagandized brains can think.
1)Russia bad because 2016 election.
2)Cold war propaganda.
3)Social media and mainstream news are far more powerful than leftists gave credit for even though of course I think everyone understands the power of the media in the past, the success in creating a narrative today is far more impressive than what happened with Iraq and Afghanistan.
4)Simple racism, Ukrainians suddenly becoming honorary whites, the cringe news anchors talking about the "tragedy" of the first war in Europe in 50 years or whatever.
5)You can fool a lib into believing Ukraine is/was a "democracy" and that is far more effective than making people care about the US invasions against the authoritarian regimes.
Putting aside the Marxist analysis of class consciousness and capitalism for a moment, I think there is also an inherent desire for people to see the world as a simple my team vs the enemy team.
If you are on team democracy you'll die on the hill supporting this belief no matter what e.g doesn't matter how much evidence there is supporting nazism in Ukraine, if the nazis are on team democracy that is ok, good even.
Look at shit like this: The Fight of Our Lives: My Time with Zelenskyy, Ukraine's Battle for Democracy, and What It Means for the World. You could argue maybe nobody is actualy buying this shit or taking it seriously, but yet the existence proves there is an obvious attempt at pushing the narrative far beyond just the news cycle, but to make it part of western culture.
And as an extension of that perhaps there is also something more primitive or even religious. Zelensky is literally Jesus fighting to save "us" from the sins of authoritarianism and tyranny while bringing us to the promised land of democracy and "western values"(also a dog whistle for :us-foreign-policy:). To be clear it doesn't matter if these people are not actually religious or whatever, the cultural legacy of Christianity is still extremely powerful. After all I think narratives of underdogs vs bully, righteousness vs evil etc are still an intrinsic part of most if not all societies.
BTW I found that book while look for more sources on this Russian propaganda post "Any similarity to actual persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.” and video
This world is a god damn comedy sketch at times.
5)You can fool a lib into believing Ukraine is/was a “democracy”
no fooling necessary, maidan coup ukraine was a democracy by lib standards. they look at iraq and say "blah blah horrible but at least we brought them democracy", the neocons won that ideological battle. Criticizing the puppet government is implicitly supporting saddam to these people, same with anything you have to say about a westernizing nazi-infested ukraine.
libs barely care about pinochet and if you tell them about 70 years of america spreading fascism and being on the wrong side every time in south america and they'll still line up and lick the boot on foreign policy.
I convinced a lib relative that the maidan coup wasn't democratic since Victoria Nuland got to dictate who could be on the new govt. But they just moved on to "well it wasn't democratic under the Russian puppet Yanukovich either, and it became democratic with the election that came after maidan"
It's wild that Yanukovich was the duly elected president, and as legitimate as you could get in Ukraine, and Libs just... don't care, and consider the violent coup and the illegal subsequent government legitimate and "Democratic".
I am scared to think what the americans would say if they had won
Most libs I know were in favor of the Iraq war, but turned quickly once it became obvious that it is turning into a failure.
I think they are spending so much energy on this because they can for once be perceived as righteously defending the victim of an evil invasion. No one was alive for WW2, and when it comes to Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya/Yemen etc, the US is the evil invading army. The rest of it is just libs being crazy libs as always, but they were more polite in public when it comes to Iraq, for example. They did support the war because of racism, but didn't say it openly. But here, the invading army is full of white guys. So they can finally do some race science as well! And advocate for a nuclear war, why not?
Amazingly, many right-wingers like Peterson or Candace Owens have better takes on the situation than liberals do. Does anyone have an explanation for this?
They are just reflexively being against what the mainstream liberal groupthink is. Just not in their usual crazy way like with most other things, because both Russians and Ukrainians are white.
Most libs I know were in favor of the Iraq war,
those fucking pieces of shit thought it was OK as long as the UN signed on. our horrible war of aggression had international approval. russia doesn't. that's the difference to them.
Most libs I know were in favor of the Iraq war, but turned quickly once it became obvious that it is turning into a failure.
Got a lib buddy at work, who was absolutely convinced that the majority of the American public opposed the war in Iraq from the start. Showed him Gallup polls with 70+% approval early on, and his first reaction was that it was pro-war propaganda from a niche outlet, and then when I was like "do you not see it says 'Gallup' at the top" he shifted to questioning their methodology. In his defense he was at college at the time so I think he may have been in a bit of a bubble, but it's still crazy how backwards typical American beliefs about events they personally experienced (ie, speaking to other Americans during this war) can be.
People just straight up edit their memories to conform with what they believe in the present. Memory is incredibly unreliable. I'm not even really sure when I began to oppose the Iraq war. I know it was fairly early, but I'm pretty sure I was in favor for at least the first couple of years. But it's all so long ago, and I was so young, and I really want to say I saw through the bullshit from the start even though I'm almost certain that's not true.
I was a person who opposed it from the start, and the only reason I am certain memory is correct is because I remember being bullied and teased specifically for being a traitor in hs for nor supporting the war.
As a boomer, once the Cold War was declared over, everyone was relieved the boogeyman had gone away. No one cared about Russia for years and years...then Podesta gave Hillary the Russiagate line and it activated the sleeping Cold War propaganda. I distincly remember saying "No ones gonna buy that shit, we were all so glad it was behind us and it's just so old fashioned". But I was wrong, my peers and the rest of them were like a majority sleeper cell given their trigger word.
I was going to say exactly this. It makes me think I have brain works, but Russiagate made Putin into a horrifying spectre for liberals.
The MIC cannot function without conflict, and america is nothing but an arms dealer. Once we pulled out of Afghanistan, there wasno longer a black hole into which we could funnel money.
If the US really cared about Ukraine or Russia, they would have taken action during the annexation of Crimea. However, it wasn't needed at that point. Now, the US needs a big bad, so it has used the marketing arm to tap into nascent liberal fears about Russia from 2016 and beyond.
My guess is that the CIA has completely infiltrated reddit. As dumb as that sounds. People have pointed out in the past that some of the heads of the reddit staff have CIA ties. The government has identified the next medium for propaganda. They had trouble for a while because only old people are watching TV news, but now they know they just need to control social media. Which is easier than it first seemed, because once they learned they just need to control a social media's moderation, they can actively censor opinion.
It is so blatantly obvious all over reddit. The anti-Russia and anti-China rhetoric is scaling directly with our governments desire to defeat these international rivals.
The average redditor sees reddit as a pure forum of thought sharing. They don't understand how easily they would be manipulated into believing something is public opinion. All it would take is a contracted team of a thousand people, or bots, to influence the views of millions of viewers by boosting posts and having moderators remove counter-perspective posts. Redditors have become zombies and haven't noticed it, because they think all of the discourse on the website is genuine. Sadly, most of it now is as self sustaining thought. It's just that they turn around and repeat what everyone else is saying because it feels good.
To take a look at what posts are "popular" and ask themselves if there is some propaganda at work is too much introspection, and they would have to ask themselves some hard questions.
why would it sound dumb? their director of policy's previous job was for a documented CIA cutout
EDIT: then I read your third sentence lol. sorry
I say that because trying to explain it to the average person will make you sound like a typical conspiracy theorist. You would basically have to set up a social media experiment to convince many redditors that they are being rather easily duped.
My guess is that the CIA has completely infiltrated reddit. As dumb as that sounds.
Absolutely not dumb, and more people need to be aware of what the CIA and DoD are doing with social media. Reddit (and every other major social media site) is infiltrated and astroturfed by the national security establishment, and this really needs to be exposed and countered in a more organized way imo.
They had trouble for a while because only old people are watching TV news, but now they know they just need to control social media.
The generational shift will make TV irrelevant even for old people. When millennials "retire"(:data-laughing:) they'll still be on twitter. In other words the problem is inevitable sorting itself out.
US Exceptionalism is a hell of a thing. The double think is insane.
"The Holocaust was bad." "We should just bomb the entire Middle East."
Zero self-awareness when interrogated on the contradiction here.
I think Russia has been "the great enemy" for liberals for a long time before this. More so than conservatives, who still harbour some misgivings about Russia but like it's brand of neoliberal conservativism. So when this invasion happened, the liberals were like "See! We were right all along!" and every lib news outlet amplified the Putin perfect-evil genocide narrative.
Extra fun cuz the media made Romney eat shit for saying Russia was our greatest geopolitical foe back in uh 2012
Obama: "The 1980s called, they want their foreign policy back."
To wild cheers and applause from the libs.
Remember Hillary taking out a comically oversized "Reset" button and pressing it in front of the Russian ambassador?
the core project of every ideology except communism is to separate the worthy from the unworthy, and to do so in a way that self-justifies the worthy
communism is the only one that doesn't try to separate who "deserves" basic needs
It's not that hard to get liberals bloodthirsty. It's not really new, fundamentally. Liberals applauded and supported just about every shitty war the US has launched or aggressive action it has taken, obediently absorbing rationalizations from capitalist media. They never took a hiatus, either: they supported The Gulf War, the subsequent civilian-targeted sanctions, the bombing of Yugoslavia, The War on Afghanistan, The War on Iraq, the destruction of Libya, the genocide of South Yemen (when they are even aware of it). They are only embarrassed of some of these things in retrospect, and only sometimes.
The propaganda agenda that primed them this time was Russiagate, but they are always getting primed for the destruction of the enemies that capitalist media creates for them. The context is purposeful myths about how democratic Ukraine was/is, how fair and noble the US is and who it must support, and the great man theory of Putin who is the devil incarnate who will destroy us and our "democracy" at any moment and especially if we don't like and smash that subscribe button on a YouTube video of a Ukrainian drone killing some Russian soldiers.
These are people who think of the US' role as "intervention". Their minds are controlled by very specific and misleading language and characterizations such that they don't even conceptualize the critical pushback they could otherwise take, even as liberals.
Libs have absorbed most of Ukrainian Fascists' race science so they both consider Russians/slavs to be asiatic. The difference is that Ukrofacists think they're the only pure white race while Libs consider Ukrainians be mostly white.
The largest part of being considered white is not the passable colorism, it's the class collaboration
They were, literally up until the day of the invasion. It's so wild to see Slavs uncritically accorded Whiteness.
The libs are reliably against all imperialist wars and intervention except for whichever project the state department is currently pushing.
people are very easily manipulated by media
ive always been a socialist, but at one point i leaned closer to anarchy. with the rise of big media corporations and the insanity of social media, it made me flip to saying 'no, actually, we do need a heavily centralized service that blasts communist propaganda 24/7 and stifles all other propaganda'. its the only way to prevent the psychopathy on display here. of course, the wests material conditions also favor fascistic rhetoric
Iraq and Afghanistan happened under Bush.
Ukraine War happened under Democrats.
