https://www.businessinsider.com/royal-navy-candidates-can-apply-without-know-how-swim-2024
I was going to say wasn't this common in the age of sail? I remember reading something about sailors drowning often because they couldn't swim, and that was just expected
It was considered bad luck to know how to swim because the water already had a taste of you and wouldn't give you up
Which to me just sounds like they didn't care if you lived or died
That sounds like something an officer makes up to convince dudes that can't swim not to worry about it
"Fire isn't hot, it only burns you if you stand still in it""Electricity is just air moving really fast, as long you cover yourself with something you'll be fine""Bee's can't sting you if you wear red"I mean, if you're a sailor and you end up overboard, you're probably gonna die. Idk if you have ever been in the North Sea, but it is cold and choppy and even a modern life vest wont keep you alive for long. Even a strong swimmer stands little chamce of survival if they go overboard on a ship.
oh yea I'm aware of how deadly cold water can be. I agree all those dudes were probably going to die anyway if their ship sunk, it just sounded like something you'd say if you just don't want someone dwelling on that fact
i've never gone into the sea for precisely this reason, i am delicious and will only trust waters that cannot eat me
Aye, the briny deep is a fine broth and I am but the most supple of sweetmeats
It was really because it didn't make a difference - if you went overboard, you died, no matter how good at swimming you were.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
I'm going to laugh if they bring back the draft and people just go
"...nah"
Tbf if you throw enough bodies at the problem eventually youll just be able to walk across the dead bodies no need for swimming tyvm
NONONO only evil Soviet Union uses sheer numbers
We civilized ubermensch only need a few genetically pure supermen (and a few brown meat shields) to put the rabble in their place
While its fun to dunk on, all it means is that British Navy basic training is just going to have their sailor boys learning to swim instead of just expecting them to already know how.
Its gonna be a net negative for the anti war crowd because this just opens up recruiting to poorer people who don't have time/access to swimming pools and swimming lessons.
Yelling out how expendable you are as I cry and ask for more of you to join my declining navy.
All things considered ukraine probably has that title now and there's no contender
I'm not trying to be rude, but how can you not know how to swim? Like not talking race or long distance, but just like... Keep your head above water and move forward? I feel like that's just natural? Would love to be enlightened
It's a bit of a class thing since you need to either have physical access to a swimmable body of water or have economic access to a pool and then have the free time to either teach your kids yourself or the money and free time to drop them off at swim lessons.
In the US, black Americans are the most likely to not know how to swim and poor Americans in general are more likely to not know how.
I can't see how it's a class thing, like you can live by water without it being beachfront property. Plenty of poor people live by the water all over the world and in the US. I guess I just don't understand, but I thank you for trying to explain
i live in a dry place, there ain't swimming depth bodies of water that aren't artificial, and you've got to pay to swim at most of them. our rivers are pathetic and an adult would be hard pressed to drown in one so it's also mostly useless to learn unless it's for recreation
I never got a grasp of how to breathe for front crawl, because it is tiring and I always needed more air than I could get in between arm strokes. Maybe if I had better technique so I was less out of breath, then I wouldn't need as much air and I'd figure it out, but whatever.
Swimming is pretty hard and tiring if you aren't using proper form and trying to streamline yourself. If you can only swim 10m until you get tired then that's basically the same as not knowing how to swim.
If I lived near a community pool maybe I'd try and learn/practice during lane swim times, but I don't and gyms with pools are too expensive monthly.
I don't float either, but if I kick my legs my head stays above water. That's what I meant by "keep your head above water."
never got a grasp of how to breathe for front crawl.
If you're at the point of struggling to do a specific style, you're past the point of not knowing how to swim at all.
If you can only swim 10m until you get tired then that's basically the same as not knowing how to swim.
I guess, but I imagined when people say "I cannot swim" that they meant that they could not swim. That's at least what I am asking about, hence why I specified "not long distance". I can easily understand not being in physical shape to swim long distances, but that's not the same as not at all being able to swim, which is what I am asking about.
If I can only swim a few metres before stopping, then I drown when I stop, then I can't swim.
If I'm terrible at running, I can just stop and not have my lungs fill up with water.
That's a pretty big difference. If you get chucked into the middle of an Olympic pool and aren't 100% sure you could get out, then I'd say you can't swim.
Usually when you talk about being able to swim it's about safety in aquatic activities. My grandpa almost died swimming in a small river without much current because he wasn't that good at swimming. He didn't die, but because it was that close I'd say he didn't know how to swim.
You wouldn't say you can ride a bike if you fall after a few metres.
If I can only swim a few metres before stopping, then I drown when I stop, then I can't swim.
If that is what people mean when they say they cannot swim, then it makes sense.
You wouldn't say you can ride a bike if you fall after a few metres.
I mean I guess I would? If you can pedal and give it momentum and keep your balance for a while, then you can ride a bike.
Different activities have different contexts for what "being able to do it" means.
If I said I can't drive, that means I have no license and probably think there's too high of a chance of something going wrong if I drove. That doesn't mean that idk how to steer, hit the gas, or brake.
If I said I can't walk that means I'm paralyzed.
Swimming is somewhere in between those two on the spectrum of "what does it mean when I say I can't".
I'd say that I am currently a bad/weak swimmer because I had some independent practice recently, but there was definitely a time where I'd say I didn't know how to swim even though I had taken lessons at that point.
Yeah I understand (but thank you for making sure) and I guess I'm just placing it closer to walk than most others. If you told me you couldn't climb trees I'd assume you were paralyzed too and swimming is in the same area in my view.
Go try to tread water for 5 minutes. It's absolutely exhausting
Yeah I know? How is that in any way an answer to my question of "how can people not know to swim?" If you can tread water you can swim.
I'm not saying it's not difficult? I'm not asking "lmao what's up with these pussies being too weak to swim for more than a few seconds?" I took pains to make it clear that's not what I meant.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
If you lack exposure to the water. It doesn't come perfectly naturally, especially if you are a bit older and have developed a fear. It's definitely easier to learn if you're younger.
But that's kinda what I mean, I don't get the "learning" part. Swimming is like... Climbing a tree or digging or doing some other somewhat complicated but approachable task. You're not gonna be great at it, but isn't there an intuitive approach you have?
I've never ran Track & Field or polevaulted, but I'm sure I could kinda do the simplest of simple of those. Not great or competitively, but I would be able to do it. I feel like it would be that with swimming too - Youre not gonna be great, but you're going to figure out a way to move yourself forward pretty intuitivelyI learned to swim before I have memory but imagine it’s due to panicking or not knowing how to float efficiently meaning you tire out fast and take big gulps of water.
Probably not dressed for swimming either. Shoes and draggy clothing definitely don't help!
Why would anyone drown if swimming was that easy? It's like riding a bike: trivial and instinctive for those who know, but dangerous and complicated for those who don't.
Because its physically demanding. Im sorry but swimming is easy. And again, i feel like I have to reiterate: when I say swimming I mean "keeping your head above water and moving in a direction of your choice". Dogs know how to do it! Not talking long distance or fast or for a long period, I'm just talking "not immediately sinking when you hit water".
Others have taken the time to explain that that's not what they mean when they say they cannot swim. I assumed "I cannot swim" meant "I cannot swim" and not "I cannot swim very well". I guess its just one of those quirks of language.
Most people don't drown in water by the way, they freeze to death.
That's like saying "whistling is easy, just put your lips together and blow." Though it is easy, that's only if you already know how to move your body in the right ways. Some people can intuit the motions without guidance but I'm telling you that it's far from everyone.
Also unlike whistling or biking, if you mess up swimming you die. Even in a shallow pool.
No it is not at all like that. It is like saying "climbing is easy, just go up" or "jumping is easy, just go up". If you saw someone jump once, you'd probably be able to kinda do it. If you wanted to climb a tree, but you'd never climbed before, you'd probably figure out a way. There is not one specific way to do it, there is not innate knowledge of how to breathe or move that you need to obtain, it is not determined by the shape of your internal breathing apparatus.
I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. I'm not talking moving fast or for a long distance. I'm talking about giving yourself forward momentum while keeping your head over water. Children do it instinctively!You can swim in shallow water, "not swimming" doesn't equal sudden death.
I don't know why you keep insisting that children know how to swim instinctively. No they don't. In the US, drowning is the leading cause of death for kids age 1-4 and the #2 leading cause for kids age 5-14 (#1 is car crashes). I don't know what else to say so I'll just leave it at that.
"keep insisting"? It's the first time I've written it.
And again I AM NOT SAYING SWIMMING FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME.
But instead of linking to stats of drowning, which does not answer my question, but instead leads out onto another tangent of discussing how many of those drownings were from people who swam, got tired and drowned, hiw many were from peoples body experiencing cold shock and thus drowning and how many were from immediately sinking which is what you are implying, you could have linked me to this https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130814100212.htm or something akin to it, which DOES approach an answer to my question. What I was hoping for was people being able to explain their own experiences to add to this kind of thing, so I could get a less academic understanding, but I guess instead we have to discuss semantics and "how long do you have to swim for it to count" instead.I'm happy I learned my assumption of instinctuality was wrong, but I still don't get how adults cannot swim, which is what I've been trying to understand. I've seen plenty of children work it out on their own, I worked it out on my own. Just like we work out how to climb on our own. Which is why I explained the whole climbing thing. Instead we're in a discussion of "no it's actually more like whistling no it's actually more like eating ass not it's" what the fuck?
Oh fair, that is the first time you mentioned kids specifically. You've said/implied that it was simple and natural in every comment though so it was that attitude that I wanted to address.
If you want anecdotal evidence then here's this: I cannot swim and neither can anyone in my family. I don't mean we can't swim long distances or that we can't swim skillfully, I mean that we cannot swim or float whatsoever. I nearly died one time when we visited the community pools because I didn't expect the slide to plunge me downwards into the water. I got out by aimlessly flailing forward and getting lucky. And no that wasn't really swimming, it was more like walking on the floor while holding my breath as best I could. Also the lifeguard didn't notice.
At the pools, we always stay in the shallow areas that's waist deep. And the few times we've gone to the beach, we don't go further into the water than to get our feet wet. There are no other opportunities for us to swim here and even those 2 cost money. I hope you understand why it's unlikely for people in our situation to learn how to swim. Like, why take time out of my schedule to pay for something that I can't do, that my friends and family can't do, and that can potentially kill me?
For the record I brought up whistling because it's a skill that many people don't have. I've been able to whistle since I could speak and so could my parents, but it would be stupid for me to conclude that whistling is an innate human skill that all people know how to do. Likewise, some people just can't figure out swimming by themselves. The proper movement of their bodies does not come naturally and that's that.
I didn't really get a proper grasp on anything but the backstroke until I took adult swimming classes in my 20s.
It doesn't help that not knowing how to swim doesn't stop gym class from forcing you to participate. I drank a lot of chlorine during 2 weeks each year.
And it's wild, I was an avid distance runner, biker, and tree/rock climber. Swimming just didn't click for me for some reason.
Weird! Backstroke was the first thing I figured out too - and that's sort of what I mean. Kinda just worked something out.
And yeah I remember the mouthfuls of chlorine :yea:
Thank you for this thread - I have had the same bafflement and the exchanges below were enlightening.
Thank you for this response. I feel like half the people responding haven't read my question all the way through, so it's been quite frustrating.
Breaking News: UK Royal Air Force no longer requires knowing how to fly a plane to join (Source: Me)
Being able to swim when stationed on a ship sounds way more useful than it actually is. In a 'man overboard' situation, it doesn't help you much, you get fucked by the inertia of a massive ship that can't just turn around and pick you up. By the time they manage to turn around the ship, the real problem is actually finding you. Even if you're an excellent swimmer, your chances of survival are very low.
Reminds me of Marx talking about the downward trend of height requirements in armies.
