https://nitter.net/marina0swald/status/1588256345857589248
I didn't watch the episode because their 9/11 episodes led me not to trust them on conspiracy stuff. It looks like I made the right call. Did they really buy the Warren Commission? Lol. Lmao.
Lmao do you also believe the moon landing was fake, 9/11 was an inside job, and that they are turning the freaking frogs gay?
Cmon. Conspiracy stuff is bull. And often leads to right-wing nut jobs who blame “da Juze”.
In case you’re not just trolling, buying the “official story” on Kennedy requires the same level of gullibility and idiocy as believing the moon landing was faked. In other words, the “conspiracy theory” is the more grounded and reasonable position, believing that Oswald acted alone and killed Kennedy requires scoffing at all evidence and facts and just pressing an “I believe button”, or a severe ignorance of the facts themselves. I strongly recommend listening to Michael Parenti’s entire lecture on the topic and reevaluating your stance. Because to anybody who is well acquainted with the facts surrounding the assassination, buying the government line makes YOU look like a turning-the-frogs-gay ignoramus. Here’s the Parenti lecture https://youtu.be/GHYs-8yM70U
I’ll give it a watch. I like Parenti.
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There also a good semi-recent book on this called JFK and the Unspeakable. Probably the most thorough documentation of the evidence I’ve seen anywhere.
Also, Oliver Stone has a documentary called JFK: Through the Looking Glass that was pretty good and covered a lot of the evidence.
:rat-salute-2:
Thanks for the Parenti link. JFK's assassination wasn't really on my radar but this seriously pilled me.
No problem!
I was an extremely anti-conspiracy New Atheist debunker for the first thirty years of my life, but my worldview changed shortly after I became a leftist and learned more about the CIA's history and the immense power of American propaganda.
Any comrade who truly internalizes these two axioms is willing to critically examine things they once dismissed as lunacy. When I finally learned that the "conspiracy theorists" I once mocked had been right about certain things all along, it broke my psyche (TrueAnon and Epstein helped with that). Now I approach all of these topics with extreme humility.
Antisemitism is sadly common among people who lack a materialist framework to make sense of state crimes against democracy.
Oh, and about those frogs...
Respectfully, that study makes the frogs trans, not gay.
Secondly, the study hasn’t been replicated since and additional studies have found nothing of the sort. Here’s the wiki on the drug, go to the amphibian section.
I don’t understand how someone who was an anti-conspiracy atheist turns a 180 but you do you.
That was my only point in sharing that study (it's a paraphrased quote from the podcast). I know that the frogs aren't actually turned gay. Endocrine disrupting pollution is a major environmental issue regardless of this single drug or study. Be wary of wikipedia, most pages are written by a company's PR department.
only about a 1/3 were written by Steven Pruitt, don't exaggerate it. :bougie-wink: and that was years ago now they have way more nameless private sector stooges writing articles and controlling talk pages. There's a tampermonkey plugin called "whocolor" that lets you see what users are most responsible for any given page.
God forbid people be capable of change
I think you need to look up what the company that initially paid Dr. Hayes for his first study has done to him in the years following that.
Bootlicking capital because some grifter turned a legit thing into a meme isn't a good look.
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I appreciate your comment even though I disagree.
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I don't think you can collapse all conspiracy theories into one thing you believe or not. There's different levels of efficacy between JFK theories, moon landing hoax, etc.
In your view, is 9/11 more moon landing or JFK?
JFK's ghost hijacked the moon and crashed it into the WTC. :sicko-luna:
:both-sides:
Tbh I haven't really looked at 9/11 conspiracies so idk. But even within a certain topic, like the JFK ones, there's different levels of efficacy. Like I think pointing out inconsistencies in the Warren Commission is more believable then trying to construct an alternative narrative without solid evidence
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Ya but it’s not tho. Marxism is based and communism is poggers. Conspiracy theories are not.
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Why do you believe the earth is round? Sometimes you just gotta trust the experts.
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I’ll be honest. I have no idea what JFK’s head even did that everyone keeps referencing. I just know he got shot when in a car(?) and died. Everything else I’ll have to look up. But it’s not like he was leading a vanguard revolution to overthrow capitalism. I don’t see why the CIA would shoot him.
But, like, what’s even the point of discussing this? Why does it even matter? We all know the CIA does evil shit all the time. We already have plenty reasons to be mad at them and hate them and oppose them. What’s the point in battling over something that happened decades ago that may or may not be true and has basically zero impact on anyone’s lives today.
That’s like my whole gripe with conspiracy theories. They’re just pointless.
This is actually something Parenti directly addresses in the lecture I linked you, since it is something Chomsky and others say. He responds to a lot of similar criticisms in that lecture. Basically there’s a reason that they have gone and continue to go to great pains to conceal the truth and smear anybody who questions the narrative. A popular American president getting offed by the unelected national security state would massively undermine the legitimacy of the government and illusions about it being democratic. It’s not some nothing burger.
The truth behind JFK's murder completely delegitimizes any claim to American democracy, so exposing the lie is one of the most subversive things you can do.
Because the fascist wing of the national security state hated Kennedy for not going full hogs out at the Bay of Pigs, and because he was getting in the way of a full-scale invasion of Vietnam.
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They are pointless because you literally are writing them off on principle. You just are admitting you don't care if the CIA actually did x,y,z crime cause they do bad things all the time. so why then are you upset at the idea that they killed JFK? For that matter, if you literally only know the bare-bones of the official story why are you dismissing things?
No investigation, no right to speak
Why did you chime in on a topic that you don't know the first fucking thing about?
Jesus Christ, terminal fucking American brain.
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The experts in the case of JFK being Alan Dulles?
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Can't tell if you're doing a bit throughout this whole thread or you're just really young/naive
conspiracy theories are literally just speculation about conspiracies to commit a crime. Define conspiracy theory for us instead of being high and mighty and calling them all antisemitism and alex jones shit.
You are just being a dismissive lib to the majority of people here, hell the majority of leftists with this attitude. Like I said elsewhere, is Coretta Scott King wrong, a right-winger, or antisemitic because she believed James Earl Ray did not kill her husband? Actually answer that, because your flagrant broad statements imply that to be the case. Or are things complex and conspiracy theories are literally just theories about conspiracies. Conspiracy being an actual thing,
After reading what the CIA has done, you kind of reconsider all "conspiracies". Not the nutty ones, but stuff like the fact that MLK Jr was 100% killed by the FBI.
Like, the CIA had an op where they successfully faked vampire attacks and stole random people's organs.
From what I understand the civil trial brought against the government concluded that the government was responsible for King's murder and awarded damages to his family. I think they asked for 1$.
So the only time there has been a real trial on the matter the government was determined to be responsible.
That's not 100%, but it's the best we've got.
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I think part of an ongoing psy op is to lump flat earthers with 9/11 truthers and "the CIA was behind the coup/assassination" plots. Conspiracies do actually exist like the Manhattan project, MK ultra, Tuskegee, Iran Contra, etc. Like the mainstream audiences for news has been fooled into thinking all conspiracies are of the same essence and that they're all fringe without basis in fact.
Do people really not know that the CIA no shit invented the term conspiracy theory to discredit people putting the pieces together?
Actually, you've got it backwards -- Reagan was flat and the moon is CGI. The moon used to be real (and therefore the moon landing wasn't faked), but Michael Bay blew up the moon back in the 90's because he was so committed to practical effects for the movie Armageddon.
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Funny thing is that that would be ridiculously easy to do.
The iPhone keyboard actually expands the touch radius of "likely" keys as you're typing. They could just program it to do less of that based on purchase date.
But what's actually happening is that nobody bothered to make that feature work with swipe-to-type. If you turn off swipe-to-type your typing accuracy will go up 2x.
Also they transitioned the spellchecker from a fixed dictionary to a stupid AI thing at some point.
I think each case should be evaluated based on the evidence and clear motive, and not just lumped into either “conspiracy stuff is bull” or “the lizard people put mind control drugs in my toothpaste”. The 2 big conspiracy theories that stand out to me as having plenty of evidence to back them up are CIA (and Dulles especially) involvement in JFK’s assassination and FBI involvement in MLK’s murder.
So MKUltra is bull? The golden triangle is bull? chemical weapons being used in Korea is bull? US involvement in the coup against Chavez is bull? the attempts to kill Castro are bull?
You really are just a liberal, especially with the incapability of viewing conspiracies as anything more than alex jones jokes and right wingers being antisemitic. You are stating that you view the idea that capitalists conspire for their own ends is "bull" and amounts to antisemitism.
Writing off "conspiracy stuff" effectively means writing off most of the left. Most leftists are not so easily willing to accept official narratives, if you want comrades, maybe dont imply that the likes of Nkruma are antisemitic nuts. Read, then read some more, and always ask questions. If conspiracies give you an instinct to write something off, kill that instinct. I dont mean buy everything, or even most things. But dont let yourself limit your curiosity like that. You only harm your own understanding of things if you approach the world with credulity like this.
or do you think Coretta Scott King was a right wing nut because she fully believed the FBI killed her husband?
People that were involved in MKULTRA and the biological and chemical weapons definitely told on them though. The lid was blown off those conspiracies partly because hey guess what, they were a little too expansive and out in the open, involving too many people to keep secret for very long.
Also much of MKULTRA involved controlled experiments in laboratory settings and universities, which means they worked within a confidential environment that was already conducive to secrecy. Whereas the moon landing hoax would have been blown open by the Soviet Union if it were true, and 9/11... Well, lol
The only reason we know about most of COINTELPRO like Fred Hampton’s death being an FBI assassination is because people not involved at all broke into some office somewhere and stole the documents proving it. You can’t count on “if it’s a conspiracy people involved will tattle”.
How does that mean anything? those are conspiracies all the same. Or do you somehow think that one conspiracy being true means all are true or one is false so all is false?
MKUltra took years to be revealed and we still only know slivers, very tiny slivers. You are not even missing the forest for the trees, just being intentionally obtuse. For all those involved in MKUltra, we still know so little, and what the fuck does that have to do with the moon landing? Or are against the idea that conspiracy theories can be true or false or anywhere in between? You are saying "well that conspiracy being true doesn't count because it counts, but this one you didn't mention is fake so conspiracies are fake" what is this transient property working backwards shit? What are you actually saying? Beyond inanities and a woeful misunderstanding of MKULTRA.
People also told on 9/11, those reports are in the records, people who caught on but had their warnings ignored. Why do you think people doubted the official story? Including high profile politicians are the time. You are talking out of your ass with these essentialist statements. The moon landing and 9/11 are not the same event, and I would really hope you could discern the two.
You would have laughed off MKULTRA before it was more openly admitted to, plain and simple. But because it is impossible to ignore you consider it as no longer being a conspiracy theory even though definitionally it was. Pure willful ignorance, though the exact kind that makes the state department's job so fucking easy. Just admit finally to something and people will say "well ok that thing that was crazy happened, but surely nothing else happens" it is just moving the goalposts and gaslighting yourself into thinking they are the same.
But yeah bring up the moon landing some more and pretend like MKULTRA being true means it wasnt a conspiracy theory,. And again, fuck the moon landing, is Coretta Scott King crazy and an antisemite for believing the FBI killed her husband? Instead of inanities, answer that actual conspiracy theory with a human cost and evidence. Instead of fixating on memes by cranks on youtube.
edit: and I feel I snapped a bit too much, but that comment just feels so dismissive and working backwards. Like admitting that conspiracy theories can be true, but that when they are that means they never counted as conspiracies. It is a silly notion and a mindset that leaves you incapable of picking up on things like MKULTRA until the government itself admits to it. Which is fucking dangerous. It is self-assured thinking and letting whatever is admitted to you be used to strengthen writing off anything else that seems suspect.
The “gay frogs” was actually true lol
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Regardless of Alex Jones, it was a legitimate UC Berkeley study, about hormonal changes in amphibians, which were indeed caused by pollution. Yes, it was "more trans".
Dr. Hayes replicated that study in published follow-up research multiple times, as the first one was paid for by the manufacturer and he wanted the verify his findings. Then they harassed the shit out of him and have continued to do so for decades.
But go off because you watched some smarmy YouTube video essay deboonking "Alex Jones's gay frogs theory"
https://i.ibb.co/tsRjfKH/conspiracy-theories.png
can you tell the difference between the two? Also why do you call yourself "Liberal" Socialist?