Today she pulled me aside and said that she disagreed with what I had to say. I asked why and she said that she believed what defectors had wrote in their biographies (she didn't name any specific books). I didn't actually get to counter that (or respond to anything really) beyond the documentary (Loyal Citizens of Pyongyang) I linked in my email which she didn't watch apparently. She was respectful I guess. Should I respond with a critique of Escape from Camp 14 and In Order to Live or should I just brush it off?
Feels like she didn't truly read what you wrote in the email or the sources you gave at all. She probably didn't have the time or didn't care. She definitely wanted to talk to you in person so she didn't have to fully respond and could dismiss it during school hours.
I'd say don't push it, I don't think it'll go anywhere if the first email didn't yanno? Pretty sure she has to stick to her syllabus either way. Good on you for putting the work in though!
lol, that's not someone looking to have their mind changed. Push her if they're incorrect in class, but otherwise I'd just let it go and focus on radicalizing the students around you.
Im not disagreeing, but OP is in high school. Understandable to be sick of teachers by then lol
As a teacher, we're structurally insentivised to be assholes. If you're not actively fighting against it, you're being a controlling dick to children.
Kids can and should be saying "fuck teachers."
Teachers are workers, too. They are some of the most overworked and underpaid workers in developed nations. So, teachers are good (as a class) and deserve our support.
While some teachers are assholes, most have too much shit going on to adequately delve into each topic they teach and engage with students. They have a set syllabus they have to follow that is dictated by the politicians (and capitalists). They can’t really afford to rock the boat.
Look at Knowing Better, who used to be a history teacher who peddled the same myths and bs as everyone else, because that is what is taught and that is what you’re forced to teach. It is only after he left the profession and got the time to actually delve deeply into American history that he learnt the truths that otherwise would remain hidden.
Teachers are workers, yes, but they are also PMCs, and tend to be libs. Although some can be left-libs, the process of becoming a teacher / the work environment itself makes it difficult for communists to be teachers in the USA. I am once again recommending the book Disciplined Minds by Jeff Schmidt regarding this subject.
Hard disagree. Teachers are professionals in that they sometimes require a great deal of education before they are allowed to work in a classroom. The only exception here is when the state has more or less abandoned students to the prison industrial complex. Teachers without college degrees and various licenses cannot get near rich white classrooms, except as substitutes.
As managers, teachers are 100% there to manage students, even if students themselves are not paid a wage. Students are a class in capitalist society, and the teachers' purpose is to keep them under control (by making them compete with one another, for instance, although there are a million other ways to deaden their class consciousness) and to separate the wheat from the chaff. Students who do well in school (who prove that they are okay with capitalism and are willing to jump through the hoops of the ruling class) are rewarded with more prestige and a better chance of having decent PMC or PB jobs; students who do poorly are excluded from decent employment or even turned over to the police.
I say all of this as a former teacher who has known and liked many teachers in my life. Where I live, many of them are unionized Bernie libs, which is about the best I think we can expect of them for the time being. (So far as I can tell, they have all stopped wearing masks, and their lib union recently failed to get a pay raise that came close to even equalling inflation.) There's definitely a contradiction with teachers as well, because the bourgeoisie has mostly come to the conclusion that they are a waste of money—meaning that teachers are often at odds with local PB landlords and business tyrant shitheads, although teachers are also threatened by the big bourgeoisie who are trying to privatize every aspect of education. Thus the fact that teachers are definitely underpaid. At the same time, any teacher who tries to radicalize students (by even entertaining the possibility that what we hear about North Korea might not always be true for instance), or assist in forming a student union, will be fired and blacklisted.
They are some of the most overworked and underpaid workers in developed nations
Respectfully, we're overworke, but this job makes 20k more than the canvassing and retail I did in college. We're only underpaid compared to other workers with masters' degrees.
You're on the money about garbage curriculum though.
That said, that shouldn't excuse us any more than cops should be excused for doing their jobs.
If you're Marxist about it, being a worker makes us powerful when we're fighting against our conditions as workers, not when we're laboring for the boss. Teaching is not progressive in the American school system.
I really don’t think you can compare teachers and cops. They are more like nurses IMO.
Sadly, Manufacturing Consent works, comrade. If it really bugs you, focus on how it works and learn how to undermine it.
Thought-terminating cliche! The classic liberal coping mechanism.
You're not going to convince your teacher through well-sourced arguments, but you may have sown some doubts. I'd look to your classmates as a better audience in this class.
You do not realize how xenophobic the average American teenager is. Fascism creates angst and rage and turns it towards outsiders, and high school in America is the prime place this takes place.
One of my best times in school was converting a teacher to Marxism before I was even there. Our grade 12 end of year social studies paper was an opinion piece about the fundamental nature of competition. Dude took me aside after class, I thought I was in trouble and he told me that it acrually changed his view of the world. 17 year old me was star eyed cause this was the most stuffed shirt teacher I ever had and everyone else was terrified of him. We got along well beforehand regardless but that was the biggest boost I ever felt.
I know plenty of teachers whom teach across the 12 grades who say otherwise.
My friends in education think I'm right. Maybe it's due to specific material conditions of our communities, idk.
I think that a leftist classmate educating them might help them avoid falling down that path. When I was a highschooler I was able to get a bunch of my friends off of far right radicalisation pipelines and now many of them are communists
like hell. they're all spouting the same sensationalist nonsense. I'm considering tickling the roof of my mouth with a well-placed shotgun.
:meow-hug:
The day will come when we can all walk under the sun with a red flag.
I know you may be joking but please be well and talk to somebody if you really have thoughts like this. Your life is so much more valuable than some stupid argument with a schoolteacher and you can only be part of the leftist movement if you continue to live.
I would let it slide for now. Chances are she'll say some other bullshit later that you'll want to confront her on and I think it'll be easier to do so if you don't pressure her too hard right now. If you consistently offer commentary then hopefully she'll appreciate your interest and engagement in the subject and be more willing to listen, but if you force her hand now it could close doors later on.
I would disengage. A non-zero amount of teachers dream about being little cops, and I've absolutely seen teachers call in "wellness checks" and various other forms of state control as the modern version of House Unamerican Activities Comission. Her mind is made up, she's very content working as a propaganda arm of the state. Consider her a dangerously ideologically comitted liberal and engage other folks. She wants to hold all these convos in private so you can't even hold the conversation for the sake of the audience
Fuck that. It's just high school. What's she gonna do? Fail them for well cited arguments written well above the level expected by the curriculum? If anything go bigger and make it public. The consequences are like, nothing.
Literally call the cops on him depending on the climate of the local education board and police, which sounds not great
What cops? There is no crime here. If OP gets shitty grades based on their political views, bring it to the principal and ifnthat fails, the school board. Where are you getting cops from any of this?
You can literally just call the cops on comminists and say they're acting scary. Its not that hard lol. Theres no reason to be ruthlessly true to a person with authority over you who has ties to various institutions of state control. Every school has a "resource officer" for a reason
And what will the cop do to this minor charged with having an opinion different than their high school teacher? You're living in a paranoid fantasy dawg
Because cops are rational actors that never make up reasons to shit on communists? and Karens never exaggerate to danger people who threaten their world view?
The only thing to gain is to feel smart in front of your teacher, and at worst that teacher can choose to make your life MUCH harder for as long as you're FORCED to interact with them. I was put thru hell from a MATH teacher for "embarassing" them in front of the class by solving a problem different than they taught.
You can tell theres a bunch of embarassed Well Ackstually ass redditors in this thread. Paranoid fantasy my ass, fuck off.
Did the math teacher call the cops on you? You can't even be tried as an adult for most of high school. Chill.
you could just Google "teacher calls cops on student" and be met with enough stories to realize getting undue attention for being a "rebel" isnt always a great idea, especially when theres no material benefit, but I guess doing apologia for the education system to feel superior to someone online is easier. Its calls the school to prison pipeline for a reason. How many peoples first run in with the cops involves an "offense" during school?
I'll throw in the caveat I'm not American. I organized students against recruitment booths in the school and the consequences were that there stopped being recruitment booths in the school.
As far as googling teacher calls cops on students, the entire front page is about black kids who showed up late. White teachers who can't tell black people apart assumed they weren't students and called the cops. None were acrually inside the class or have any relations to opposing a teacher politically. This is racist Karen's in a panic cause black kids were knocking at the school door vs. a student being a good student despite the teachers opinion. Literally what will the cops do if called?
I know about the article. We literally have Escape from Camp 14 (prob the book she was referencing) in the school library even though the author admitted that a lot of it isn't true and the defector's dad said he never even was in a prison camp.
"my main source is the textbook" FUCK YOUR TEXTBOOK MORON JESUS CHRIST
I am honestly surprised that nobody has pointed out the obvious: who gives a shit, it's just high school.
In 5 years you will struggle to remember this even happening. She won't budge. I fucking promise you she won't. This will be a waste of your time, most likely.
The U.S. is so eager to stress its moral superiority over that country they committed genocide in.
This woman, like the vast majority of lazy pieces of shit in the Imperial Core, has no interest in learning. She knows The Truth (because the man on the TV told her so).
Oh also she said we would "agree to disagree" on who started the war. No elaboration on that either really.
A history teacher basing their understanding of history on vibes. Lovely.
I would have loved to hear an argument because I thought my argument was bulletproof especially considering the Jeju uprising. I fucking hate these people.
would be such a banger email but I'm this close to actually causing a conflict
You got a good thing going here, champ. Even if she’s not invested in it, this is still a good amount of knowledge and information you’ve gathered. The skills you gained while doing so will undoubtedly help you later in life, in university and beyond.
Glad to have you on this side :soviet-heart:
I would let it go if I were you. This is still January, and you're still stuck with her for at least 5 months. That's almost half a year. She probably didn't watch it because she's overworked like most teachers. At best, she's just humoring you like a child and isn't taking what you're saying seriously and at worst, she's ideologically committed to her position and no dipshit bratty kid is gonna lodge her out of her ideological hole she dug herself in.
I don't how to tell you this without hurting your feelings, but most adults do not take kids seriously and teens, contrary to what pop culture pushes out, are still considered kids by many adults. If your teacher is one of those teens-are-just-horny-kids type of adult, your efforts to deprogram her are a lost cause because once the cognitive dissonance is strong enough, she's just going to default to the "I don't have to take shit from this stupid kid" thought terminating cliche.
This doesn't mean arguing with her was a waste of time. Because your target isn't some cringey millennial/gen x lib, but your fellow classmates. Those are the people you should radicalize. Consider your teacher as a rhetorical punching bag so that when your classmates put rhetorical roadblocks, you can use your experience with your teacher to navigate past them.
