it doesn't even have scooby doo in it, yeah I get it it's "velma" but by setting it in scooby doo, removing scooby doo, and changing almost literally everything about all of the characters, they have transparently made what is essentially a random ass cartoon that is only wearing the skin of scooby doo IP for marketing purposes, and is therefore fundamentally grotesque
And they would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for the meddling wokes!
They're going to add a love interest for Shaggy named "Scoobie". Its terrible.
Mindy Kaling is also a violent anti-semite and transphobe and is clearly intentionally making a bad show as ragebait. The show is racist about its POC characters and ESPECIALLY towards Shaggy. Making a character black and then leaning into him being a stoner druggie is. Not good optics.
I hate the show, but your last point is just not true.
One of the only funny gags in the show is that Shaggy is explicitly anti-drugs.
Despite the supposed “wokeness” of Mindy Project I’m pretty sure that gynecology practice never had a trans patient.
She had like an entire chapter in “Is everyone hanging out without me” about how dating Jewish guys was annoying
:yea: I always wanted an more explicitly stoner Shaggy and I got no problem with Shaggy being black but doing both at once is at least a bit questionable
Shaggy was always a stoner. He named his dog doobie. He was always hungry. He owned a groovy van. He woudl literally leave clouds of smoke behind him when he ran
@Zuzak suggested "ownbait" but "sacrificial trash" is another good term for it.
it seems like this is worse than that media usually is, and i've been hearing that mindy is kinda reactionary anyway so i'm not sure how much either angle of that applies.
fwiw i'm unlikely to discuss the show outside of this thread and i don't think chapo dot chat meaningfully contributes to the undeserved pile-on
Can we all just agree to not watch it? Its probably very bad, and the racists probably hate it for having a brown person it.
The first ten minutes doesn't have Shaggy and I couldn't make it through.
Why did they feel the need to inject two cockroaches having sex in a Scooby-Dog series? How tf did this pilot get greenlit?
This might be yet another :LIB: culture war artillery barrage that is pretty much expected and maybe intended to piss off :frothingfash: to build additional publicity and get :maybe-later-honey: :maybe-later-kiddo: to performatively watch it to stick it to those :frothingfash: .
It can be hard sometimes to criticize :LIB: treats because that criticism can often be bundled up with "PURPLE HAIR FEEEMALE BAD" screeching.
That's genuinely surprising. I assumed it would be there.
Hopefully the followup for the next inevitable reboot isn't "we need to make this more reactionary and chuddier to win everyone back." :porky-happy:
Oh, the Steven Universe fandom was feral. I was discouraged from ever trying the show entirely because of that hostility, so loud and fierce that I picked it up without even trying in remote parts of the internet.
It is true that there's "woke" stuff out there that isn't just garbage with woke paint on it. And that's good. :capitalist-woke: :farquaad-point:
It is true that there’s “woke” stuff out there that isn’t just garbage with woke paint on it
And where did that bring you? Back to me
I still like Steven Universe for the most part, I just refuse to engage with the fandom
Still honestly wish Steven Universe would do an official crossover with Dragon Ball Super, having the Steven Universe cast show up as one of the other teams in the next multiverse tournament would be perfect
I liked Steven Universe but the imperialist/fash apologia of the show threw me for a wild minute. At least the Owl House is better by portraying the witch hating puritan villain straight up evil and shitty (not needing forgiveness). I really enjoy media that admits "you know what bash the fash/imperialist it's good fuckin praxis y'all".
For all I know Steven Universe is very good, but I have stayed away because of how loud and toxic that fandom was, even to a casual observer like myself. The ideology behind some highly sus moments in the plot also bother me after I read a little about it, such as (obvious spoiler alert)
spoiler
the fact that the genocidal crystal people are superficially "forgiven" and all is well after all the death and destruction they already inflicted.
I've never understood that criticism. The Gems weren't really genocidal or imperialistic. Both of those terms imply the act as "targeted", at least in my mind(less so imperialism but I digress) . They're a galactic alien force bent on extracting every resource they find, and barely even acknowledge other life being so far removed. I'm vegan but even I can't prevent or spare thoughts for life I destroy just by existing and walking down the street, which is what I'd somewhat compare it to. When finally confronted by a force that could match them and share a different morality they showed a willingness to change and learn. Are we supposed to punish people for wanting to change who, I reiterate, had an alien morality? That seems like a lot more interesting topic to handle.
Also real world answer, the show was canceled way too early so who knows how they would have handled "rehabilitation" given proper time.
Yeah I avoid fandoms in a similar manner to live idol worship. I watched and talked about it with friends but that was kinda it. The show is exceedingly good at breaking down issues of emotional trauma, relationship boundaries, inter generational issues, PTSD, stress, burnout, and mental health in a way that is great for kids (prolly was part of the start of "kids shows that didnt talk down to kids about serious shit"). The overarching plot of the imperialist murder gems though could have used some rewrites in the conclusion.
When it turns out your aunts and grandma are gem Hitlers it gets kinda weird ngl comrade, again that's my negative point for the show yet also my positives points on it also stand (and I think are worthwhile in making emotionally communicative pieces of media). Also you can drop the anger posting this aint :reddit-logo: we can agree to disagree here without malding too much.
Redemption arcs aren't bad (reddit is just filled with absolutist shitheads), I just think they have to be careful in how they use them (since the audience is commonly children to these types of "redeeming the villain" arcs). For a show like SU that built up a such a huge villain like the Gem Empire it was honestly weird to see them turn it into a family drama of generational strife and misunderstanding, i.e. I feel this is a lib style of the show alongside the treatment of Bismuth as you pointed out. Then again it's weird having a show that's legit set during a lull period in which a revolutionary force got more or less killed/PTSD bombed by a nuke and the evil empire has continued to blow up and exploit planets as colonies. It could be they rushed it, or didn't know how to properly conclude it once the set up was done on Homeworld. The show may have been better off set up in a higher age bracket but then again that stuff is never greenlit by studios so what was made was already pretty amazing by the standards of children's entertainment at the time.
ON THIS SITE there were people who’d basically threaten to cut you if you didn’t like The Last Jedi for Christs sake.
I remember that. The only treat defended more fiercely than TLJ on Hexbear was Gambo, and to some extent Richard and Mortimer.
I hated that hours long gotcha game and I hated Rian Johnson's smug asshole attitude both in and out of the movie, but that said, I finally saw Glass Onion and if Knives Out was anything like it, maybe his work is tolerable to me when it sticks with murder mysteries.
Literally what the fuck is Gambo I dont spend enough time here to speak in tongues but this like the 14th time Ive seen you mention it
Game of Thrones, and GRRM things in general.
It was first coined on Chapo Trap House, and I just adopted it. I'm anticipating some backlash but I'm used to that.
I just h8 trying to join in on convos and not understanding what's being said lol.
I could list what I was called, but yes, as far as I can remember, regressive wasn't one of them.
The short list I can remember off the top of my head regarding what I was called for criticizing that show was that I was a joyless scold, that I was thin skinned and delicate and easily offended, that I was mentally ill, that I wanted all fiction to be morality plays, and (not kidding about this one, even if it's a whopper) that I was a fascist bolshevik kangaroo court judge dictating morality.
Also no offense you can be a bit of a “scold” sometimes. I’d just say that not necessarily a bad thing, maybe just own it.
I do own that one. I do take some moral stands and stand by them, primarily because I feel like someone has to when it's so in vogue to be atomized and permissive about everything except showing care or concern about something, or expressing that society should be improved somewhat. :edgeworth-shrug:
IDK if YOU’RE personally guilty of this since I don’t usually keep track of user names but I have encountered people on this site where it feels like this is essentially what they want, they don’t out loud say it but surveying all of their media takes it just seems like the only conclusion of their logic.
I like some pretty dark stuff sometimes, like Moral Orel. I consider that one to be a masterpiece and it's a direct criticism of an actual morality play of a show. It has heart and sincerity and doesn't revel in cruelty and suffering the way some other shows do, though. There's an air of sympathy instead of spectacle throughout the suffering and misery presented, though the later seasons become less of a comedy and more a story of grim resilience and existential coping.
I don't need everything I enjoy to be a "morality play," not at all, though I take no pleasure from edginess for edginess' sake, cheap shock humor gimmicks that age badly, or grimdark gore/sexual violence spectacles presented for entertainment purposes while masquerading as "historical accuracy" as if full frontal titillation and making a spectacle of the victim is the only way to be that way.
Another example of grim done right is "Come and See." I don't think it'd be improved if Gambo's "historical accuracy" emphasis was put on it and the sexual violence victim in one notorious scene was focused on during the atrocity with titillating camera angles and gratuitous sensationalist emphasis, or if such a scene was repeated a few more times over and over throughout the run time while presented in such a way.
I know you weren't. I was just clarifying my position and where I stand.
I can't speak for everyone here. In fact, some banned people sometimes went further than I did, maybe even to the point of parody or deliberate exaggeration.
I did say that modern makers of satire should be more than aware by now that a lot of people are statistically likely to miss the satire and to take whatever's being satirized at face value, as what notoriously happened with Verhoven's Starship Troopers film, which was intended to dunk on Heinlein's novel (which Verhoven expressed personal dislike for, and didn't even finish reading), and the director himself expressed frustration and regret about how too many audience members took the film.
I didn't say it can't be done, but that at this point it really shouldn't be a surprise if the message of something goes over people's heads and something more crude and unintended is absorbed instead.
EDIT: Fixed a can/can't typo.
I'm too lazy to look through my posts but yeah, there was some real "authors should control every didactic aspect of their art" posting a while back I was pushing against.
I honestly don't remember who or when those arguments were made, or by whom. Maybe I was too busy and distracted getting raged and insulted for what I myself said that stood differently than that.
Sort of, except that Moral Orel doesn't pull a pop nihilistic take. In a way it is a morality story, but it's about the moral abomination of fundamentalist religious upbringing and what it takes for a kid to try to endure it long enough to escape it.
I'm not even arguing with you there. It dunks on a morality play, not on morality as a concept.
I don’t see how that makes it any different from any other story that criticizes or gives morals like quite literally Every Story Ever
I don't see the alternative to having at least some detectable moral point somewhere as an inevitability, except futile and hypocritical "NOTHING MATTERS LOL BE A SELFISH ASSHOLE" messaging which is still its own twisted sort of morality.
I'm not even sure you're arguing against something I was intending to say.
Moral Orel dunks on Davie and Goliath as a foundational purpose for the show's existence. Davie and Goliath was a claymation churchy show that was rather directly about promoting the ideology and lifestyle that is portrayed as an artificial and abusive hellscape in Moral Orel. It's not absent of morality, but it's fiercely against the morality of Davie and Goliath.
Like I don’t even know what we’re disagreeing on
I don't know either. :edgeworth-shrug:
I may have worded that badly, then. We don't really disagree on much of anything here.
It's a good show, if pretty dark at times. The darkness has a point; it isn't misery porn but the dark humor turns into just grim perseverance over time and it eventually stops being a comedy altogether before it ends.
There needs to be a word for this so we don't need like 6 emojis to describe it because it's a really common thing whenever something is complete shit and they realize that half of everyone hating it is better that everyone hating it.
I propose, "Ownbait," because it promises that you're owning the people you hate by watching it.
Not a bad word idea.
A lot of chud media is "Ownbait" from the start and it's nothing new. The turn of the century had "The Man Show" which was trying to be as misogynistic as possible to stick it to the straw feminists. And it worked. :doomer:
It's pretty much always garbage no matter who it's promising to own because if it was actually good they'd be selling it on its merits.
I remember a lot of 90s advertising did this too: "Your uncool mom doesn't want you to play this game!" :freeze-gamer:
Steven universe was too good a show infact. They mentioned several times cartoon netwoork got mad because it would appeal to all audiences. It would cut into the marketing budget for both girl and boy toys and they couldn't figure out what to do with it because everyone liked it.
Mindy Kaling isn't "progressive" and I have higher expectations for art than that it should make me nod in agreement
Steven Universe was very good, and also very flawed, and I will discuss it with anyone here gladly.
My memory is that show was good throughout. Never saw the future season but everything through the movie was pretty good for a kids show imo.
Edit the fandom was incredibly cringe though, which might have been the real issue. all fandom is cringe though.
I think in this case I'm talking about just taking things way too seriously (so the harassment as part of it), and just being kind of "evangelical" about it for lack of a better term
I watched the first 2 episodes. I didnt think it was "that" bad. Based on what I have seen I do think the hate is overblown. I assume people would have been less mad about it if it was a new show without ties to Scooby-Doo. Let me put it this way. In a world with minions and boss baby Im not really that mad at velma.
The suits at Neflix stating that their standard for all animated shows from that point forward was going to be fucking Boss Baby was a new level of Jokerficiation for me. :youre-awful:
the show is bad. there is no reason to engage with the internet discourse about it beyond coming to understand that fact.
e: so as to avoid criticism without investigation, i have resolved to watch the first episode on a site of ill repute. I'll have the Truth for you in about 26 minutes.
1:43 - okay the proudly sexually normal people talking about the high school shower scene like it's kiddie porn are honestly underselling it. it's even worse than that. it's "self referential" and all the characters talk like TV writers whose skulls have been hollowed out by twitter. we get no compelling, character driven dialogue, just the characters in the show turning to the camera and telling the audience that this show is a game piece for idiotic arguments about Diversity in Media.
2:55 - Cool gore. Every cartoon should have a cute animal sidekick and/or some cool gore. Imo.
4:17 - I think they should have explained one of the main characters assaulting another main character with a pipe better. Like given any sort of reason or consequences at all besides "they hate each other, and then everyone forgot about it."
5:16 - This show has a terminal fear of having anything serious plot stuff on screen. Like, it has the tone of Family Guy, but it's not as funny.
7:40 - The teenage protagonist called someone "a basic bitch who doesn't even know how to use hashtags." I checked and Mindy Kaling is 43, in case you didn't know.
11:58 - This flashback is cute. I think the idea of this backstory is neat. I think it's hack shit to put it all in a single out-of-place expo dump and then lampshade how janky it was with a line referencing scriptwriting.
13:39 - The joke about Shaggy hating drugs lands because they don't overexplain it. Wish they had that capacity for restraint anywhere else in the show. If I had to guess it's a set up for his origin story where we find out how he transformed from "Norville" to "Shaggy."
16:40 - Oh, that's why they sped through the backstory. Because it was a fakeout. We're resolving this character arc right now, because this show is "satire." Why would we explore this motivation for a full episode or even an entire season when we could just sink it for comedic value.
18:32 - "Hey, you guys ever seen Heathers? People liked that, right? I bet we could do that."
25:34 - Okay maybe we are sticking with the mommy issues. I wish the show gave any reassurance that that emotional hook will pay off.
okay
The Truth
The show is bad. We can stop talking about it I think. I'm not conceptually against an edgy scooby cartoon where all the characters are totally different, and I can get into a high school dramadey, but every line feels like the writers would rather be doing anything else, and instead of jokes they have the characters just say that they know they're in a TV show, and that they expect it to be discussed online. I figure this thing was proposed and fleshed out to its fullest extent in a single brunch meeting, and then everyone got bored and gave up on making it any good. At least it's animated better than the average western adult cartoon, which isn't saying much.
:rat-salute: Godspeed, comrade. May you return from the breach unscathed.
i found it on thekisscartoon dot com. I will say that I put in very little effort and didn't vet this site at all, so it might have some kind of crypto miner for all i know. probably avoid if you don't have a good adblocker installed.
bflix.ru usually has what you need and if not novastream.to is a good second choice. for reference i use ublock origin and privacy badger so i am not harassed by popups and shit anywhere online
I will say though, it's not offensively bad, just not worth your time. I think the Fandom reasons that people hate it of the "childhood ruined" variety are nonsense because there have been like 3 different Scooby series in the past decade that hew fairly close to the source material and are pretty good, so they're welcome to go watch those.
no, i just had more thoughts and sometimes i feel like making a new comment instead of editing one
But most people hate it because the show gives crackers a taste of their own medicine. Everyone laughed at minstrel shows for centuries
You know, I remember the minstrel scene from Mad Men, and one thing that stood out was how utterly unfunny it was. Just an incredibly cringe-inducing grotesquery.
White Chicks was a minstrel show, but still managed to have some high notes. Velma is just badly written. I mean, having Shaggy turn to the camera and do a knowing wink while saying "I would never do drugs"... in 2023? After having a bunch of naked 16 year olds wrestling in the girl's shower? Who could this show possibly be for?
It's like Mindy Caly decided to psychically manifest the worst parts of the 1990s.
After having a bunch of naked 16 year olds wrestling in the girl’s shower? Who could this show possibly be for?
The usual P R E S T I G E T V crowd, I'd suspect, because it's "historically accurate" that naked teenagers were wrestling in a shower somewhere. :awooga: :libertarian-alert:
White Chicks was a minstrel show
I wanna see "White Guys"--a movie where two black women LARP as mayomen infiltrating a klan meeting or an gaming convention (same thing at this point)
diversity win! PoC centered show sucks just as bad as nazi memes!
The opening starts in a high school girl's shower room and at some point in the pilot, you see two roaches have sex.
this is not a criticism anyone should be making unless they also despise misery porn
:I-was-saying:
I haven't read any of the criticism. I saw the first two episodes. It's bad. It's just not funny and Mindy Kaling's Velma is a drag on the show. I don't even know how to rate the rest of the characters. They only seem to interact with Velma and Mindy's Velma isn't at all entertaining. I rewatches episode 1 with a friend and they dropped it after that.
are there any good review videos on it? I don't mind it being negative, I just don't want to wade through tons of videos using fascist rhetoric like complaining about "wokeness".
are there any good review videos
on it? I don’t mind it being negative, I just don’t want to wade through tons of videos using fascist rhetoric like complaining about “wokeness”.Youtube recommends the following videos:
:last-sight: :shapiro-gavel: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :shapiro-gavel: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :shapiro-gavel: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :shapiro-gavel: :last-sight: :last-sight: :shapiro-gavel: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight: :last-sight:
Sounds like a Metal Gear boss name, so that emoji checks out. :jetstream-troll:
Both are shitty knock-offs that don't adhere to the original style
(Be Cool Scooby Doo also made Shaggy short for some weird reason, nobody seemed to care about that though)"Be Cool Scooby Doo" received 184 ratings
"Velma" received 4674 ratingsTherefore we can say that 96.3% of the reviewers are triggered chuds
Be Cool Scooby Doo
ew gross I didn't know there was another one
My analysis is the HBO max audience leaves more reviews than the Cartoon Network crowd
