Leonardo DiCaprio is 50 and is still dating 18 year old girls, does anyone else feel like this is wrong?
He's 48 and she's 19, unless you're trying to intentionally mislead with your thread title.
But that's besides the point. Leftists need to understand that the age thing isn't as big a deal as it seems. Honestly this sounds like some moralistic western left thing.
Conservative idiots will point out that kids can elect to start the transition process at a much younger age and use that as some kind of argument "win" against the same leftists who get creeped out by age gaps. Even though they're only pointing this out as a debatebro tactic (cuz they actually hate trans people), the point still kind of stands. If you're willing to let teenagers make big life decisions, then at the very least an 18 year old should be able to date someone much older. Otherwise you run the risk of infantalizing people, which has its own set of issues. And tbh it's also ageist to suggest that older ppl should "stay in their own lane" so to speak.
Conservatives are absolutely already using this moment to bring up the age people can transition. Granted most of them seem to think there are toddlers getting reassignment surgery, so it's not exactly rooted in reality.
I tend to think that an 18 year-old does have the right to decide if they want to date somebody older than them. That being said, being in my 30s, the concept of dating an 18 year-old sounds extremely weird to me. I have no interest in developing an intimate relationship with somebody that much younger than me and I would strongly question the motivations of somebody who does, at least until the younger person reaches their late 20s.
So I don't really know. I don't think I'd support making a relationship like this illegal, but I don't think it should be normalized in society either. Maybe that's hypocritical?
Dating a significantly older person is not at like taking hrt when your twelve. If anything having more kids willingly take hrt will result in less discord shenanigans between minors and discord predators.
I'd have to defer to people with more knowledge of hrt on the specifics there, but I absolutely agree that comparing taking hrt in your teens to dating somebody 30 years older than you is completely ridiculous.
And tbh it’s also ageist to suggest that older ppl should “stay in their own lane” so to speak.
this is one of the stupidest things i've read all day
You see nothing wrong with a very old person electing to date a younger person? The power dynamic is exploitative, it’s not as bad as outright
spoiler
pedophilia
but there’s gotta be a rule that deals with situations like Leonardo DiCaprio exclusively dating young girls. That should be legally prosecutable. We have Romeo and Juliet laws for a reason, we need to have a Leonardo DiCaprio law. Like it’s okay if a 30 year old dates a 30 year old once, five times though? That’s gonna require some reeducation.
Leo is definitely guilty of being a complete fucking manchild but I don't see why you would make being a manchild illegal.
Like what are the options here exactly? Codify the "half your age + 7" rule into law?
A broken clock is right twice a day. One is teatotaling and the other is promoting literacy.
they also popularised vaccines, invented anarchism (the puritians were way cooler in England than America), and cut off Charles the 1sts head
It's 18 in most places.
Also it's not like the law ever stopped teens from getting hammered.
You're approaching this from a very US centric perspective. The age of consent is pretty low in most EU countries, it doesn't mean old creeps fucking 16-19 yo girls is at all acceptable.
Im pretty sure Ive read stuff that proves that Europe's attitudes about alcohol and young people actually lead to LESS alcoholism and binge drinking among the youth. Surprise surprise.
Maybe for low alcohol content beer but hard liquor should require a higher age, so should smoking and driving. 18 isn’t the magic number, neither is 21. The idea that there’s a single age we consider someone an adult is outdated.
Practically speaking driving is a necessity to get around in a lot of places. Like work and school
And anyways I think teen drivers are bad primarily due to lack of experience. I started driving in my 20s but I don't I was better than where everyone else started out at
Driving is a necessity in places like the United States where public transportation has been purposefully gutted by the white population to stop racial integration. Yes young people would economically suffer, but it would disproportionately affect young white people the most, the demographic that already has too much shit to begin with.
Look, if there’s a large amount of people that are suddenly disenfranchised because they can’t drive no more and getting the right to drive again back isn’t an option, they will change their way of living, a lot will struggle. BUT MAYBE THATS THE PRICE TO PAY FOR YOUR FUCKING ANCESTORS ENSLAVING BLACK PEOPLE YOU CUMSKIN FREAK!
We have Romeo and Juliet laws for a reason, we need to have a Leonardo DiCaprio law.
Didn't he star in a Romeo and Juliet movie actually?
I don't think it should be legally prosecutable, because the law is a blunt instrument, but I do think it should be socially unacceptable. Subject to social stigma, not invited to the good parties, miss out on opportunities, etc.
And tbh it’s also ageist to suggest that older ppl should “stay in their own lane” so to speak.
I dunno, I'm pushing 50, and I'd look a little askance at anyone my age dating someone under 35.
I really don't see the issue, frankly. People claim that it's because some people are older and they have more experience that that makes them able to manipulate younger people, somehow. But to be fair, a lot of older people are just as fuckin' stupid as 18 year olds and barely have progressed mentally. IDK, I'm not really willing to die on this hill, but I don't think the discourse around it is very convincing.
It's fuckin weird of him to do it, we were all 19 at some point (well, I'm assuming lol) we've all made bad choices. One of those bad choices is easily dating someone nearly 30 years older than you, especially when he keeps dumping girlfriends when they reach the age of 22.
But for Leo to do it, come on man, it's a creepy thing to do. And he just keeps doing it and dumping them when they age out.
https://moedred.livejournal.com/2009/03/04/
"RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK"
Story Conference Transcript
January 23, 1978 thru January 27, 1978
George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, Larry Kasdan
George Lucas wanted a pedophile in Raiders of the Lost Ark. "He could have known this little girl when she was just a kid. Had an affair with her when she was eleven." L — "And he was forty-two." Steven Speilberg — "And promiscuous. She came onto him."
G — Fifteen is right on the edge. I know it's an outrageous idea, but it is interesting. Once she's sixteen or seventeen it's not interesting anymore.
How about that for the attitudes of Hollywood royalty?
But to be fair, a lot of older people are just as fuckin’ stupid as 18 year olds and barely have progressed mentally. IDK, I’m not really willing to die on this hill, but I don’t think the discourse around it is very convincing.
Yeah like every maga chud who's 50+ who acts like a complete child when the waiter/waitress at a restaurant isn't treating them like a god. Or the countless politicians who act like complete children and rage out over the dumbest shit. Yea I've never really bought into the mental maturity thing too much b/c to be honest, pretty much everyone who grows up middle class in the US is in some form of arrested development. Especially when compared to how quickly kids have to become "adults" (as in start supporting the family, working, etc.) in the global south.
It’s not about age, it’s about time to accumulate capital and economic dominance and coercion
Then family wealth should be considered to evaluate capital. Someone with homeowner parents has much more capital than someone without
Hot take: 50 year olds dating teenagers is wrong
Its problematic sure but its not illegal and honestly I dont think it should be. Even if I you increased the age of consent to lets say 21 the age gap would be still problematic. But some things can be problematic but should still be allowed like a boss dating his secretary for example.
I mean there’s a 6 year age gap between my partner and i but we’re both in or very near our 30s. I wouldn’t have considered them a viable partner when she was 18 and I was 24 tbh.
But some things can be problematic but should still be allowed like a boss dating his secretary for example.
um what
problematic things should be solved, thats what the world problem means. Action should be taken to actively reduce these things.
Even in an anarchist society you will have "powerdynamics" like a partner that is more conventionally beautiful, has a more prestigous job like say surgeon or is simply very popular with a lot of people. Sure I agree that we should strife to reduce the imbalances and even the playing field but under the current oder only so much is possible. Which is why I wouldnt mind an increase in the Age of Consent since it would be a pragmatic thing that could actually happen (at least on paper).
And yes I think a Boss / secretary realtionship is problematic but it should be allowed under the current system. (Assuming consenting adults). Of course we should try to eliminate the need for bosses but that is not something that is going to happen anytime soon.
A terrible argument to make, a culture of dating people close to your own age is what should be happening. Introducing new laws besides age of consent that help this along would be good.
I can't believe I have to make these arguments here of all places. I thought this place was better. He related his own goddamn experiences with it and all you can do is give a non-question, like some right-winger.
a culture of dating people close to your own age is what should be happening.
As in some kind of Cultural Revolution(TM)?
He related his own goddamn experiences with it and all you can do is give a non-question, like some right-winger.
But that could just have been a bad experience. On the flip side it could have been amazing. It's like putting off dating someone from a different race just because you tried it one time and it didn't work out.
that is excellent too, and honestly what I would prefer.
The fact that its a repeated pattern and he doesnt show interest in women his own age is moderately sketchy to me but I don't have a problem with age gaps between consenting adults and I dont like infantilizing young adults like moral crusaders on reddit and twitter are always doing. I have a much younger partner (adult obvi) personally and I know that she chose me and is capable of doing so. I also have another partner closer to my age. The only reason I think its weird with Leo is that its a repeated pattern, and also his power because of his fame and wealth.
I know this is an ancient anxiety
Historically it isn't even that much of an anxiety. I know orientalists like to point out these age gaps when they're trying to be racist/colonial/islamophobic, but even in the west this wasn't that big of a deal until recently. I'm not sure what caused the sudden switch. Maybe a historian here can answer?
Other languages lack the entire idea of "teenager" as their numbers from 13 to 19 lack the suffix "teen".
They're just seen as children. The whole "rebellious phase" thing is 100% cultural. Teens in other countries are respectful of their elders and eager to learn their culture so they can pass it on to their children when they have them.
Interesting to think about how the decimal system and language influences us
I mean I belive you when you say you're an historian.
But great advice overall, and :rat-salute-2: for recognizing what you specialize in and what you don't.
I'd situate panics about The Kids broadly in the breakdown of Patriarchy via capitalism and progressive resistance but goddamn that's a colossal topic
but to demonstrate it one need only compare right-wing focus & outrage between child abuse coming from traditional patriarchal hierarchies (church and family heads) versus their outrage toward [right-wing boogeyman du jour]
And while the 48/19 thing is a little :fidel-wut:, doesn't he mostly date women in their mid-20s? Most of whom have their own more-than-decent careers?
nope, he dumps them when they get 25ish and goes back for the younger ages lol
on one hand, it's hella bad and wrong for many reasons
on the other hand, it can quickly devolve into infantilizing young adults because obviously some old cooter in the congress knows better than them whether they consent or not, so regulating this is hella shaky
the brain keeps changing throughout life so you gotta wait till your mind is on the decline
Yeah, there's a fucked up power dynamic there (compounded by him being rich/famous as well). But he's definitely a loser.
maybe but being a loser isn't a problem. I don't care if someone is a loser and many people who get labeled losers often have tragic stories
the moral failing is bad
Maybe women are not interested in DiCaprio after they reach certain age lmao
I don't think any ordinary person would look at Leonardo DiCaprio and think "loser."
Sure, but this thread is also getting into cultural attitudes and what most people think is acceptable. And it's always good to recognize when one's opinion (even if it's somewhat popular on a small leftist site) is radically different from what society as a whole thinks (even those parts of society that aren't hopelessly reactionary).
I just think it's worth noting that if you call one of the most famous actors in the world a loser, 99% of folks will look at you like you have three heads.
Well sure, but this was a question asked on Hexbear. I've never talked about Leo with anyone IRL other than "Leo is in X movie".
I wouldn’t call Jeffery Epstein a loser before he got arrested. I would call him a creep.
thats because most 'ordinary people' are consumerists with nothing else on the brain except lame, inane shit. Like watching The Kardashians
What the fuck is up with this site and saying massive age gaps are absolutely fine? Last time it was with :libertarian-approaching: guys jumping in to say that a 28 year old being in a relationship with a 19 year old was good and cool and now we’re having the same struggle session about how it’s also fine for a 48 year old to be in a relationship with a 19 year old.
It is unambiguously creepy if someone is in a relationship with someone old enough to be their dad.
Because we as a society have come to the conclusion that a 19 year old is old enough to decide for themselves who they want to love. Simple as that. There's so much nuance to human relationships that get left out in these discussions and its exausting.
Im totally on board with calling it creepy if a 48 year old dates a 19 year old. With that said im also of the opinion that it should be legal. If you dont think it should be...you should have a discussion about a higher age of consent than 18 years.
an age of consent that considered age differences wouldn't be the worst idea
I think consent is more complicated than you are giving credit for. I do not believe that an 18 year old is adult enough to consent to going out with a 50 year old as the reasons why a 50 year old dating a 17 year old is messed up are just as in play here. I do think an 18 year old can consent with a 20 year old
adulthood is not just a state you magically reach once you turn a certain age it is a complex societal idea referring to a persons level of development and it is also not a binary state
it's difficult because the law is a blunt instrument and this is a nuanced issue.
If we banned all age gaps bigger than 5 years
that wasn't my thinking. A 30 year old dating a 50 year old I would consider reasonable similarly for an 18 year old dating a 16 year old even.
people do a lot of growing up in their early 20s and I don't think anyone over 24 should be dating people under 20
It's their business regardless. If you're going to start taking away agency from 18 year olds, then we should shift the voting age higher too because that's too young to make those kinds of decisions.
Adulthood vs. childhood is always going to face a fuzzy boundary and any line is going to be arbitrary for one reason or another. At a certain point, we have to consider people full legal persons with rights and responsibilities, and that includes the right to make mistakes. I think more restrictions and involving criminal systems is more likely to hurt than help. Affect this by way of social stigmatization, not legality.
I think more restrictions and involving criminal systems is more likely to hurt than help. Affect this by way of social stigmatization, not legality.
Yeah it's funny seeing some here getting all "tough on crime" when it comes to this issue
"It's ICKY and it's okay when I don't like it :comfy:" This comm rn.
Ah yes, giving childish responses like this are totally a reflection of how much of a big, smart boy you are.
taking your user a little too literally there
Affect this by way of social stigmatization, not legality
A powerful rich man is above any social stigmatization an average person could level. Social stigma can only be used against people in your community
Then that's a separate issue now isn't it? :gui-better: That's the point of a more equitable world - where people aren't grossly more powerful than others.
ok but I was talking about how people should behave in the world we live in now not the world after we achieve socialism.
Ah so we're talking about the actual world. Then we should take into account the idea of increasing the power of policing and disproportionate impact of that on the poor and already marginalized.
People see rich and famous taking advantage of this because that's a system perpetuated, largely, by capitalism and massive social inequality. Same on the more pedestrian level. It's usually wealth and status that attract younger folks to an older partner. These are the same folks who get away with murder and aren't policed because they're white and well off already. Advocating for illegality is increasing a police state without actually hurting the people we consider unethical
it might just be a different experience of police but I've found that police take little or no interest in enforcing this sort of law. It's like how domestic abuse laws don't really get enforced even though they exist on paper.
I was not proposing making it a criminal act for the young women to be in these relationships but the older men
Hard disagree. Not about the monkey brain thing, but about legality binding people. So flippant about the policing necessary to enforce this kind of law.
A lot of people (on all issues) think of law and enforcement as different things, when in reality they're inseparable.
I feel like age 18 is still a good voting age
The ol' half your age plus seven thing strikes again.
It would be gross to apply that as a hard and fast rule, or to specifically go around chasing people of the lowest acceptable age specifically. But it at least captures the fact that as you get older, the acceptable age gap widens, but within limits.
now we’re having the same struggle session about how it’s also fine for a 48 year old to actually marry a 19 year old.
I think they're just dating
Whenever I read something about Leo's young girlfriends, I remember an interview with Johnny Depp where he remarked about feeling bad that he treated Leo terribly while filming Gilbert Grape because all Leo cared about at the time was talking about video games. Pretty understandable for the age he was at that time, but despite his meteoric career since, I have to wonder if his life gave him the experiences that he needed to progress beyond that point. Is he dumping women because the get to old for him, or because by 25, they've outgrown him? Not defending it in anyway, I just cannot understand wanting to engulf yourself in the mental maturity of someone thirty years younger than you are, unless you are at the same mental age yourself.
Huh I also just learned today that he doesn't have any kids either. It could be entirely possible that the people he's dated wanted to get serious and actually start a family with him as they got older and he didn't want to deal with the pressure or responsibility of having kids.
Not defending it in anyway, I just cannot understand wanting to engulf yourself in the mental maturity of someone thirty years younger than you are, unless you are at the same mental age yourself.
That actually makes me think of a slightly tangential issue. If the vast majority of people in your age range just aren't compatible with you, but someone outside of that range is, is that such a problem? Like for example, if you're younger and you don't like how everyone your age is immature and partying all the time or constantly on tik tok, is it wrong to seek more mature people? Or on the flip side, if you're older and everyone around your age is super bitter, pessimistic, jaded, etc. but you're not, is it so bad to seek out someone outside of your age range that is more positive/optimistic? Like between two consenting adults, anything should be fair game, no?
A problem easily solved by specific types of economic equality.
This is the real reason that age gaps are so common, the older the person the more likely they are to have amassed a bunch of wealth. Once you have a ton of capital you can subtly coerce people around you and get a poorer partner very easily, who becomes dependent on the older partner and under their economic control.
You can’t really claim to be a communist and be fine with rich old fucks dating teenage models on a society wide scale. One off cases could be genuine attraction or love, large portions of the population shows a systemic economic coercion and distribution of sex up to the older generations using their capital accumulation
Think of it this way: after he dies, which will be soon, she inherits his wealth and is still young enough to enjoy it.
Think of it this way: after he dies, which will be soon, she inherits his wealth and is still young enough to enjoy it.
and if a peasant was impregnated by the lord of the manor feudal custom demanded he pay for the childs education and secure them a career or marriage.
This was also a bad system
It's not about the lord of the manor, it's about intergenerational wealth transfer from the haves to the have-nots, from men to women.
and the lord of the maner wasn't a have and the peasant wasn't a have not?
this is the same feudal bullcrap the aristocracy have used to justify the use of and disposal of young poor women forever. a much older man leveraging his wealth, influence, and power into a sexual relationship with a woman young enough that the average person his age would refer to her as a kid is messed up
The woman didn't inherit the lord's wealth
Please try to read what I wrote instead of what you thought I wrote
she won't inherit his wealth either. That is just not how our inheritance laws work
She in many ways is worse of than the peasant in my analogy who had things guaranteed by right
And even if she did inherit something it’s still fucking wrong for old dudes to be getting fucked by young women for cash.
I think this point deserves clarification. Sex workers should not be criminalised and are not doing anything wrong
but I am not convinced that people can consent to sex if not consenting means they don't get paid money they need to live and or loose their job.
alienation from labor is bad enough but alienation from your ability to sexually consent is worse
If they are just dating, don’t share children & she’s not in his will then she doesn’t get anything
It’s a Libertarian/Liberal ideology to believe that consent in transactions is discrete and that there’s no such thing as partial consent via coercion.
Liberal/Libertarians would argue that an unfair low wage employment is fine because the worker agreed to do it so they shouldn’t complain. They have often argued that people could sell themselves into slavery if they consented to it.
We know that it’s not that simple and that power, economic and social, is very important to any transaction and who benefits from it.
To a Liberal, every deal is a square deal - proved by the fact that all parties agreed to it. They cannot conceive of an oblong deal that benefits one party far more or even harms someone who is pressured into it
Even in a communist society it should still be okay between consenting adults. At least that's my own view.
Liberalism. Consent is not discrete, this does not take into account economic factors, power dynamics, pressure and subtler forms of coercion.
A worker “consents” to a low wage and shitty conditions of exploitation. That doesn’t make it free of exploitation. A poor young model might “consent” to sleeping with a modeling agent or executive to get some money, that doesn’t make it free of sexual coercion.
after we solve the current big problem of capital accumulation we can hash out the details
I DEMAND CONSENT FORMS IN TRIPLICATE AND NOTARIZED :lets-fucking-go:
EVERY FIVE YEARS IT MUST BE REVIEWED AND REAPPROVED
you're right. i think we can sustain a yearly verification process if we increase staffing to the Volcel Comissariat by 500% over the next 5 year plan. and in the next 5 year plan we could get more staff & lower the verification again! the next plan we could add orgy & fetish subcommittees :stalin-shining: when we reach single-day consent and employ every citizen in an organ of the Volcel Comissariat we'll have Communism
I can't get off until the political commissar approves my orgasm request, also a reach around.
the sex act has lasted 1 minute longer than approved, a commitee is rushed into the room to ascertain why you haven't cum yet :no-workers:
That would make me instantly blow my load, thanks for the observation committee members.
Just because you pulled the "soy wojack" trick doesn't actually make your own argument better, weirdo.
Adults should be considered adults. Or the age at which people are considered adults should change then
Maybe it should change. Like obviously an 18 year old shouldn’t be dating a 14 year old but neither should a 40 year old be dating an 18 year old.
It's off putting but at least he stays in the legal range. That's more than some of the pedos in Hollywood are capable of.
That’s more than some of the pedos in Hollywood are capable of.
Or powerful politicians/royalty/etc. :epstein:
omg he's so much better than directly going for the underage ones!
I thought I was done with the "harm reduction" weirdos
“Having sex with an 18 year old and a 12 year old are the same actually” is an interesting take
when the other one is 50 it doesn't make them so much better
You’re not wrong there I suppose lol. I’m 30 and when I look at 18-23 year olds I see tiny babies. Can’t imagine ever wanting to date one.
