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yeah, guess I'll just inhale a bunch of copium and delude myself
Literally come back when you stop thinking all women innately and always "look like women", and quit being ridiculous.
Pretty sure you're just depressed and upset which I get, but I'm not gonna sit here and bullshit you. If you think this is "delusion" you haven't been around enough.
I hope you feel better soon.
THEY LITERALLY DO
Youre projecting your own personal views of the world onto other peoples experience. I've felt the same way in the past, i often do, but its not good to ruminate on. My own therapist who is a short haired older lesbian often gets misgendered because of her hair for example.
Predicting who is a woman, or allowing other people to determine one's woman-ness is something we should not be giving energy to.
If someone misgenders you, either tell them, or let it slide and move on, they do not determine who you are. Thats a deterministic and fascist point of view.
They don't and you can't even define what you're talking about. Cis women have to shave and do their hair in flattering ways and consider their figures too; if your sisters wake up femme enough that's good for them but as SnowySkyes said, all cis women have to put in work to be seen as women.
whatever, may as well stick my nose in a good shit show (cw for complaining about transphobes)
Oh yea I remember one day my sister didn't shave and everyone thought she was a guy. And if they didn't they they/them'd her like some kind of circus freak.
You know it's different ash. It's not the same. Maybe some cis women have to put in some amount of work to not get misgendered sometimes. It's not the same.
I'd like to say I'm not angry, just sad about my own situation.
edit: this comment was made in a bad state and looking back at it, doesn't accurately communicate how I even feel very well. I could fix but have decided to leave it for context, but hopefully further down thread I explain what I mean better. Anyway I love you all.
Like I say, as long as you're not being shitty I won't be
I am still game to talk.
I don't, actually. Example myself: there have been times in the past that I have bothered to dress up and present femme and still got misgendered, which was crushing. By contrast, the last year or three I've woke up every day and not put on makeup, shaved or done anything else fancy, and it's been over a year since I was misgendered. Like cis women, even!
It's true that a cis woman not putting the work in might not literally correlate to her getting misgendered, but the same is often true of transfemmes. It's not uncommon to hear stories of people on HRT for several years slumming it in sweatpants like I do and still get gendered correctly.
This becomes more complicated without estrogen, because it does a lot of things that the average normo deems "female". At that point you do need to put in more work. But cis women still get misgendered. They are not magical beings.
Also cis people shittily using they/them as a weapon against trans people does not factor into this. And if someone uses they/them due to not knowing somebody's gender, that is generally okay.
EDIT: As an addendum, do transfemmes get misgendered more than cis women? Yeah, absolutely. I'm not trying to draw a direct equivalence. Like I was saying to Tomboymoder though, whether or not someone out in the world uses she/her or he/him is a huge dice roll, one that shakes out between your gender presentation, traits you have that might be considersd masc or femme, your voice, and the person's perceptions of gender. You are relying on the perception of an utter random.
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Thank you, yes absolutely
Don't forget some people have shit eyesight and hearing and legit have no clue what they're looking at
For some people its really if the blob standing before them looks like it has long hair or not
Classic elderly woman who thinks you're her granddaughter cause you have similar hair
As long as they don't call you sonny, at that, does it really matter? It's just a label and somebody you'll probably never meet again..
Okay good
Thank you. I could tell you were getting a little frustrated so... yaknow.
After like a decade of hrt? And I have to assume laser or something on your face (because you have said hrt doesn't change facial hair, right? I know if I didn't shave there's not a god damn thing I could do to pass). That is a considerable amount of work, and is not typical for cis women. And I guess I don't know how severe the changes are after 17, but that is still young enough for some bone changes, right? Which is impossible for me to ever get.
I did not mean it that way, sorry for not wording it right. But trans people who don't pass do get they/them'd, regardless of how the person intends it. And it still feels shitty, and still isn't the typical experience of cis women.
I agree a lot with sneak100's comment (which I see you also agree with?), the starting line is very different. "Catching up" is a ton of work. Maybe you are just talking about how it is after putting in a decade of work and I'm looking at the whole thing, decade of prep included.
A bit, but more exhausted than anything, low social battery, autism y'know...
Yes after nine going on ten years of hormones! You still end up getting stuff happening even this far in! The evil little thing I have to admit to here is that I never got facial hair. That's like the one thing I managed to fully escape. Shaving sucks badly and having facial hair can hugely impact passing, even though cis women have it sometimes too. Ask a cis woman how she feels about walking around with 5 o'clock shadow! Fwiw my wife sometimes skips shaving and it doesn't cause her to be misgendered, most people do not look that close. Shaving does suck, badly, and you are pre-HRT so passing will be harder for you. But many or even most cis women shave their faces every day. It's part of the beauty routine.
You would think I'd be young enough for bone changes, but nah not really. If phrenology's your interest, my shoulders are an inch or two wider than my pelvis, a lot of my hip width and figure generally is just muscle and fat moving to cool places. I have really long legs but typically masculine long arms to match. I'm lucky, but not absurdly so imo. I got a better luck of the draw on family honestly...
Uh no, that's not how that is supposed to work. Everyone should be they-them'd until you know their gender or pronouns, at which point you switch. I don't assume anyone's pronouns in day to day life myself. Anyone will get they/them'd at least once if the person is being decent. Cis women should get they/them'd too; nobody should assume anybody's gender, see. This is why pronoun pins are cool too.
I guess my point, in light of sneak100's comment, is that it's varying amounts of work for everyone, because passing is stupid and arbitrary and cisnormative. If you take HRT for a few years though, you might well be able to slack like I do and still get gendered right. Lots of trans people do. It is often true that trans women have to put in more work to pass though, which sucks, again cisnormativity. But Tomboymoder was saying that cis women somehow have an innate "looking like a woman" that they always have, that trans women do not somehow? That is some gender phrenology shit. Clearly, given me and my wife, it's not an assigned gender thing.
I try not to feel envious of other people in the mega but damn you make it hard.
I really do not feel like engaging with a lot of this, sorry. I understand what you are saying though.
Well sure trans women can get there (to where I can roll out of bed passing, even if not fully up to beauty standards. Like I do now with looking like a guy), with a whole bunch of work. I certainly need a whole bunch of work before I get to that point.
Also tbh I haven't read all of her recent comments so maybe she clarified and isn't saying what I am (and tbh I think we are talking about slightly different things)
I can go a few days without shaving, you'd only notice it if you were up close. Many cis women have to shave or bleach their facial hair, along with body hair like arms/hands also.
Nobody will be able to assume your gender from your bones.. that is a myth
People use they/them in a number of ways, shitty people misgender regardless.. most misgendering would occur because of presentation but not exclusively. Many cis women get misgendered every day.. that's a fact.
they literally don't they literally don't they literally don't.
I am sorry, but this is just copium by trans people to try and conflate the two experiences. a women who doesn't do all that will probably be thought of as ugly, maybe, but they aren't gonna be mistaken for a dude.
Am I coping, is that what I'm doing? Do I strike you as coping? It's literally true, you're letting brainworms make you shitty and angry. All you can do is repeat yourself, be serious please.
My supervisor at my last job was a 30something mother of two with short hair, a PCOS sufferer and got misgendered somewhat frequently. You're being ridiculous, getting misgendered is not some unique experience for transfems. You know it isn't.
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I can find dozens of articles of cis women getting harassed cause people think they're men.
If it’s transvestigators in bathrooms I don’t want to hear it
Honestly, scratch what I was typing. I've been transitioned a long ass time at this point, you're just gonna have to accept that you're going to make it and will be fine, it is just unfortunately a slow process.
I just know more than you, take my word for it.