Its like Hillary walking into a working class kitchen for the first time.
They've been shielded from even critical support of China and other AES for so long they literally, not figuratively, literally cannot process that people exist that have beliefs that aren't Reddit Approved. They immediately assume it's bots or wumao. Human beings can't possibly hold these beliefs, so they must be Oriental hordes or actual robots.
Its not about being a shill for Xi. Its about defending the country that went from having a 20% literacy rate to a country with its own space station in the span of 70 years. With railways and infrastructure that outshines those of the American empire, the richest nation in the history of the be world.
You may not call it socialism but it is still worth defending. My family and friends in China see improvement and growth before their very eyes. Dirt roads are now high speed rail. How many working class Americans can say things have gotten better in the last few decades? That they can afford to dine out more often, that they can afford a bigger apartment? How many can say their children are getting better educated, that schools are improving, that their extra curricular sports programs have gotten funding? How many can say that they've seen a new hospital built in a lower income area, or at all? I know households where the grandparents grew up literally illiterate, like animals they weren't given an education, without running water or electricity, and in leaner months would have to skip meals to pay the landlord. Today their bilingual grand children sit next to them in a home that they own, learning physics from a Livestream from the Chinese Space Station. Can you even conceive that level of improvement to a life, let alone a million, let alone a billion?
And the sheltered Reddit libs cannot understand that people would defend that. They cannot understand why people would defend that. They must be shills, there's no way anyone could genuinely defend a system that improved the lives of a billion people and abolished poverty. Our memes depict Xi as Winnie the Pooh, so those defending China must be robots or paid shills. No-one would actually defend China right?
But they have a lotta cameras
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where do you live that you have privacy? the moon?
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Nice dodge there
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Of course it matters. When you name the country we can actually compare using real data instead of this wishywashy bullshit.
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Why the fuck do you think it matters that you posted your fucking country on the internet? I'm literally a revolutionary socialist. I advocate for the violent overthrow of the state. All states. But especially the state I currently reside in, the UK. But also the 2 others I hold citizenship in.
It's fucking easy. Trust me that if they don't give a shit about me, they don't give a shit about you. You are not changing anything by outing yourself as one of tens of millions of people. You're just not that important.
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Name a different but comparable country then ffs. This is just avoidance.
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I work all kinds of hours because I need to pay to eat and barely survive with the cost of literally everything and my landlord fucking me over so that I don't fucking die.. Fuck off.
I'm glad you're so fucking privileged you can't even imagine that someone else might work nights.
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We are on this fucking website because we were censored for being socialists you dumb fuck.
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Yes a government. Jessica Ashooh, the "head of policy" at Reddit is a spook.
And if you don't think that's relevant then I direct you to John Stockwell speaking about this very thing in 1977.
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If the government thought we mattered we would have federal agents here.
Of course, nothing on lemmy matters, which is why hexbear can exist
hog out or log out :LIB:
How bad were your other comments that this one survived the cut?
I was just tired of the notifications. I will remove the rest when I feel like it.
Every single comment from me or someone else was pretty much the same shit.
Bugged NPC
Wait a second, you’re going through and deleting your posts?
What for? Let the mods delete the bad posts. Life’s too short to worry about that.
Holy shit it's the boomer ninjutsu of hiding the seethe behind "😂" lmfao
Unironically yes, though. If the Internet is censored people won't see how stupid you are and thus incur no risk of laughing themselves to death.
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the irony of posting this over western internet JFL
Well some of you genuinely think censorship is a good thing. So it's not as farfetched as it may seem.
you don't even fucking know what you're talking about holy shit lol
This is why censorship is the way forwards, it hurts too laugh so much at morons like you.
Says the idiot claims that censorship is good..
that's right. All censorship is good
Nani the fuck? You're the one who is pro West bucko
You have 17 comments and joined four days ago. You are an alt.
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Oh pardon me! Wouldn’t want you to have to abandon your 18 comment four day old new main account.
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looks over at last pass with over 100 entries
Makes sense. Carry on.
Lol, this is the most pathetic attempt to not admit you were wrong I've ever seen.
How's your girlfriend in Canada?
Didn't actually name the country huh?
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Hope you're not planning on visiting the UK or any American metropole anytime soon either then
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No it isn't, that's laughable. The US has far and away the worst most heinous surveillance of its citizens, not to mention the citizens of other nations as well. Try reading a summary of what Snowden revealed about the US state surveillance programs for instance
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you think it's better that the US tries to hide all of its nefarious (and frankly worse) spying? what the hell???
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I'm not from China but I've been there and it isn't hard to speak with people from China to learn that it's not some dystopia. US is hands down far more of a police state.
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I highly doubt that. It sounds like you're someone who's never had your material security threatened. There's no other way you could imagine that unrestricted pickup artist and grind set entrepreneur internet is more valuable than the Chinese peoples' ongoing victories against crushing poverty.
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Of course you fucking do numbnuts. Who the fuck do you think owns all the media? The proles? I sure love all the proletarian mainstream media we have around here. Oh my fucking god I feel so fucking represented!
Lack of control over the media results in the bourgeoisie exercising their financial power to use it to control the superstructure of society, through entertainment, art and more everything becomes the cultural product of the bourgeoisie. The outcome of which is a bourgeoise-led society and ultimately this leads to bourgeoise politics.
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yeah until you get popular and you suddenly have 3 bullet wounds to the back of the head, if you somehow even have the money to start a media outlet that challenges state power
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please for the love of god actually look into how the world works. How do you suppose that people will learn about your new resource? the power of friendship? how do you hire the journalists needed to expand your sources? All this shit takes capital dumbass, me and you would never be able to get the capital to run something like that unless we were already rich by other means, media is a saturated field.
And good fucking god do you really think coups and assassinations don't happen anymore? the US was just exposed for couping pakistan, and Julian Assange is going to rot in prison for the rest of his miserable short life for exposing US war crimes and secrets, you literally know fucking nothing about the world this is embarrasing
Ok
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fucking shit this is so disengenuous. There is a difference between MAINSTREAM media and just the general posting of average people online. If you think they give a fuck what you post online I recommend you go to weibo and actually take a look, you will find people posting all sorts of shit.
The only thing they truly give a fuck about are the mainstream and people of real influence, celebrities, the rich, etc.
You are out of your mind if you don't think protesting happens in China. It's provably false in seconds of effort to look it up. What you're not allowed to do is advocate for the destruction of the Chinese state, just like you're not allowed to do that in every fucking country, including the west. There are protests for all kinds of shit every day otherwise. Workers rights, improving conditions, fixing shit, etc etc.
Of fucking course am I allowed to do that.
Also, like I said go to bed, it's very late in the UK.
Then dewit lmao stop pestering people who keep your ubereats bugman lifestyle going.
I don't live in a police state so I don't feel the need to protest.
But yes I think the discussion can end here.
I hope that one day you get that freedom of press and speech is a good thing, until then, have a nice day.
"My country is better because it gives me the right to do something that I would openly never do nor recommend of my fellow citizens of that country"
Just because I don't feel the need to do it doesn't mean I wouldn't do it. Huge difference. If you don't see the difference you should really go somewhere else.
Actually it does mean that you wouldn't do it in the sense that you won't do it now or in the future, by your own admission! What you do in your imagination in some Red Dawn alternate reality doesn't fucking matter and is not a good grounding for discussing political theory.
So I should start a riot just because I can?
Do you imagine rioting is legal?
What I'm saying is that a right that you can be confident you won't ever use (and would discourage your countrymen from using on the same basis) is one that doesn't matter, especially in the absence of rights that do have a material impact, like a right to housing, where China is imperfect but incomparably better than the US and friends. Fun fact: Venezuela is among the best in the world in this respect despite its poverty.
I am absolutely not saying that China hasn't accelerated extremely fast out of poverty and all that.
It's absolutely incredible how much has been accomplished.
But, I am extremely against the Chinese state on many issues. Here are a few:
China doesn't have to do these things to do all the good things they do for their population. They just choose to anyway, because the government wants to stay in power or something. Whatever the reason is, I don't think it's justifiable.
"Muh xinjiang cultural genocide"
Based.
Imagine posting this using western internet lmao you have no idea how fucked things are
Examples?
"If you don't allow cults like the falun gong to exist this means ur against relijis freedom"
American spies deserve worse than death.
Valid critique but the countries you support are even worse in this faculty.
"I am a brainless fool who has no idea what I'm talking about but I'm still going to post my uninformed nonsense anyways." Amazing shit, only in the West.
Yeah, that was the brain-dead response I expected.
You're accusing other people of being brain dead and yet you just regurgitate an understanding that reflects an exclusively mass media understanding of the situation.
You bring up the uyghers as if the "evidence " on this front is something to be taken seriously... When it's all sourced from the same german Catholic extremist who doesn't speak uygher or Mandarin.
As if the Americans didn't just spend the last 2 decades marauding around the world droning weddings, demolishing infrastructure, and protecting opium fields.
Why do you expect that people believe that the collective west suddenly decided to start caring about Muslim life, the last time that happened was Kosovo and we all know how that ended.
The US "legalized" gay marriage like 8 years ago and if you think that's where rights for LGBT people begin or end you're either extremely gullible and genuinely uninformed or selling something. In any case you're pinkwashing the soul harvester to justify empire.
That doesn't help the people you think it does, if anything it provides a cover for bigots to target LGBT people under the guise of anti-imperialism.
Says the illiterate moron who even admits he has no idea what he's talking about but continues to post the same NPC talking points anyways.
I will actually engage sincerely with you here in the hopes we can have something approaching good faith.
Every Islamic country on the planet has said that China is not genociding Uyghurs, including some that were, at the time at least, quite close to the United States. I don't personally believe myself to be superior or less easily brainwashed than them. There has been no evidence of a genocide campaign - what there has been are an absolute myriad of claims, including by people like Adrian Zenz, and there's been a lot of redditors finding factories on google maps and calling them death camps. Yes, I have also seen the reddit copypastas with a hundred different links for "proof" that China is executing a genocide, but there is no proof, only claims. What China has been doing to the Uyghurs is an anti-terrorism campaign that is highly imperfect, but does not involve mass killing (in fact, the population of Uyghurs has grown over the last few years and they were notably exempt from the One Child Policy when that was around). These campaigns must be contrasted with the United States' anti-terrorism campaigns, which I think is best exemplified by Madeline Albright's statement that a million dead Iraqi children is worth it.
Imagine you were the leader of an upstart country who was opposed ideologically to an extremely powerful country somewhere else in the world, so powerful that they could spread media and buy up your own media and spread blatant lies to your population that you were doing bad things, despite that extremely powerful country actually doing bad things. The spread of this information could get so bad that they would think that you're a tyrant and try and overthrow you, but you're actually trying to do (and do in fact do) good things. What would you do? Does the sanctity of the free spread of information outweigh the very real fact that that extremely powerful country might destroy you and your projects via that same information? Would you advocate for, say, the Ukrainian government to not ban Russian media and let them spread, as they would see it, lies about their country? This isn't some hypothetical question on a questionnaire, you can't go "Oh, well, really we need to find a nice balance between the two, see, maybe censorship is too much but absolute freedom of the media is too much too, maybe we need to meet in the middle and find some kind of--" no, you have to institute actual policies and commands to your subordinates about what to do here, or millions might die.
It's all invasive surveillance, everywhere! It's a universal phenomenon! Snowden had to run away from the USA to show that! Cities from London to Jerasalem are packed with CCTV cameras and phones and OSes have backdoors used by intelligence agencies. There's no way to criticize any country for invasive surveillance without it inherently being a whataboutism. Much better to criticize the concept of invasive surveillance, in my opinion, and it's infinitely easier to try and combat surveillance in your own country than one literally on the other side of the planet. You just have more power where you live.
I'm a little confused by what you mean by this. China has local elections and protests are quite common over there. The problem I think that a lot of Westerners have is the equivalence of state elections with democracy. Do you think it's possible that there might be other democratic arrangements possible than the ones invented by the West? Hell, do you think that there might, perhaps, be a possible incentive for the West to tell everybody from a young age that the only possible democratic arrangement is the one that is currently present in many Western countries? It's a genuinely interesting question, this isn't a dunk, I myself have been thinking about it and looking at the local elections that go on in China and the DPRK (here's an excellent writeup by a Hexbear user on the elections in the DPRK)
Here's a question: if there were other parties in China or the DPRK or Cuba, if they didn't allow the citizens to vote for, say, a capitalist system over a communist one and instead was just "We'll do what they're doing, essentially the same economic policies, we're still communist, but we promise to expand LGBTQIA+ rights a little", would they be meaningfully different from the party in power, or would you merely say that they were essentially the same party, though with some minor differences, and the state was trying to construct the illusion of choice? Because this is precisely what I would say is going on in most Western countries. There is no choice between economic systems - we have agreed that liberal capitalism, in fact neoliberal capitalism, is the only choice here. What you can vote for is whether to hate gay people or not, or to allow abortions or not. Is having the mere ability to choose between two parties, even if they were very similar, the definition of democracy? Or, instead, would you say "Well, okay, but the citizens of that country also have to approve of the policies being enacted by that government." If so, isn't it curious that Chinese citizens have very high approval ratings for their government's policies, while a minority of American citizens like their government's policies, and most people absolutely hate the Senate?
In a democracy, is the ability to choose more important than people actually liking either choice?
I don't think China is much worse than any other major country in this regard. If this is referencing the Falun Gong, then: lol.
Indeed. The one thing I will say in this general area is that at least criminal penalties are used against the rich as well as the poor. Billionaires in the West don't face anything other than tiny fines for doing even monstrous acts, whereas they are at least appropriately punished in China a lot of the time.
Indeed, though I think things are generally on an upwards trajectory, albeit a very slow one. The same cannot be said of a lot of other nations nowadays.
I do think this point is very silly and idealistic (in the philosophical way, not the usual definition). Governments and nations are constrained by an incredibly complex web of material conditions. I very, very strongly object to any notion of "X government is doing this because they are Kind and Believe In The Power Of Love And Friendship And Freedom, whereas Y government is doing this because they are self-interested and simply interested in manipulating their populace to maintain power." I go by Lenin's definitions of the state, in which the state is, essentially, the means of one class - typically the smaller one - to magnify their power and exert it upon an exploited class. This is true of (almost) every government in the world right now. All of them are extremely self-interested in maintaining power because of class conflict and profit, not because they are megalomaniacs or deeply manipulative. Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin - and, for that matter, Joe Biden or Rishi Sunak - are not doing evil laughs every day like some mustache-twirling fantasy villain called Ebenezer Bonecrusher, and it's frankly childish and annoying when redditors and twitter people and so on have such notions.
What I and many others would say about the governments of, say, China, or Cuba, or Venezuela, is that they have a much higher concentration of genuine working class interest inside them, for a mixture of ideological and material reasons. As in, the state is not just a vessel for the bourgeoisie to exploit the working class - though it can and is also that - but also a vessel for that same working class to improve itself, because the Communist governments' officials maintain a leash on the capitalist elements inside the state.
Ok I'm not gonna read the context here because ain nobody got time for this much internet bullshit, but
YES. ALWAYS.
You absolutely live in a police state, it's just not directed at you, rather at unhoused and immigrants
The circus monkey who does not move to escape will never feel it's chains.
https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/053b3b87-b757-41f7-bef8-2ed00a7f61f1.png?format=webp&thumbnail=256
You can't even advocate for the assassination of a single leader in the US, let alone the whole government.
Why would I advocate for the assassination of literally anyone? I am not crazy. Also I am not American.
So you are happy with the fact that your head of state is performing genocide against the poor, the marginalized, and citizens of the 3rd world? That's a bit crazy man ngl
Yeah, that's a bit overblown.
I won't even make a proper response to such a crazy ass hyperbole statement.
Likewise my son, just because you deny reality doesn't make it go away.
I like how you instantly backed down from "I can call for the destruction of the state!" to "I can't, but I wouldn't want to anyway."
In the capitalist world the rich and the poor are both equally free to sleep under a bridge! Likewise anybody is free to start or buy a billion dollar media press outlet or social media giant, that's why it's important that no restrictions are ever placed on false and harmful reactionary speech!
Way to demonstrate his point.
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Ratio
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😂😂😂
In the US corporations do the censorship and it isn't better. Also, if that trumps everything for you, a reexamination of priorities is probably in order. There are actually more important things than reactionaries being able to say whatever they want online. Facebook was used to help commit genocide in some countries for example, is that OK for you or should the calls for genocide have been censored?
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Dumb fuck!
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L
I know Edward Snowden is a libertarian or some dumb shit but man he really did get himself exiled for nothing.
"I assume that the enemies designated by my rulers are worse than my admittedly very wicked rulers, based entirely on testimony from those same wicked rulers."
Snowden got citizenship in Russia for his entire family, a lot of money from authoring a book and other media deals, and worldwide fame as a hero
He may not have achieved his goal but his consolation prize is not bad
Yeah it's certainly much better than for example, Assange, but it's wild to me that people just gloss over the US surveillance state at this point
I legit can't tell if this is a joke lol. Which country do you live in that doesn't have a lot of cameras? I have awful news for you if you live in the US or the UK.
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this is a hilarious thing to say if you live in any western country
preach
All the Chinese people in China who I totally really know in real life for sure. Those Chinese people in China that I totally really know all say they love love Xi. It's totally because they really really want to and not because dissent isn't allowed. They totally didn't start making grade schoolers go to several extra hours of school a day to learn to worship Xi 2 years ago btw. Also there is no air pollution in Beijing. Did I mention I totally know some Chinese people. You're all a bunch of sheltered white libs.....not like me. I mean yeah, I am a lib, only 15, white, and I do live in my parents basement.......but I know things, things that you don't. There's no way other people have any experience of the world so you have to believe, because I pretend......I mean DO, I do know some Chinese people in China and they are Chinese. They totally love their Chinese life in China where everyone has 120% literacy rate and reads 5 astrophysics books on their way to work in Beijing where there's no air pollution in China.
......China
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Sorry, which country is brainwashing people to worship their country from childhood? I forget.
Who said shit about worshiping the US? You guys are so pedantic. You are all worried about exact language when it comes to yourselves, but take all kinds of liberties when it comes to others. You don't even have any goal other than being an asshole. there's no actual discussion to be had. You just consistently make wild, inaccurate speculation in order to (try to) enrage people. You're so far off the mark though that it's completely impotent. Have good life auto-fellating your self-perceived intellect..
You said (baseless) shit about Chinese kids being forced into worshiping Xi
Go on, put two and two together as to why I might post Western kids being brainwashed into worshiping the US after that.
show us your penis
The kid is 15, let's not
Like I had to do a double-take because there is no way a sane person can write:
And then say:
Immediately afterwards, like its beyond imagination, I initially thought they were elaborating and calling us 15 year old white basement dwellers.
Fucking sad, the level of highschool education in america.
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yeah no kidding buddy. glad you're able to do some self reflection
It really just blows your mind that there are real people with real opinions based on their life experiences that don't reflect your biases, doesn't it.
This person is literally a white 15 year old and has no life experience
It's just evident that you don't actually have that real life experience. This is not what Chinese people say when not under duress. Something like 80% of Chinese people not living in China (read, who aren't forced to support the government) disapprove of the Chinese government. I've lived and worked with Chinese people. They don't say what you say they're saying. I've lived and worked in communist countries. It's not this socialist utopia you make it out to be. So yeah, it's pretty clear you don't have any idea what you're saying. You keep talking about "Experience" when it's obvious you don't have any......I do. So fuck off with your fantastical agenda pushing bullshit.
Rich people who can afford to leave and settle permanently in a foreign land disapprove of Communist home country, shocking!
Were you with the CIA or...?
Thanks for telling me what 80% [citations needed] of all Chinese people (not counting the vast majority of them because they live in China) think. I'm sure they also appreciate being spoken for. Maybe people who like living in China don't see a reason to leave? Seems like a pretty obvious explanation, even if I ignore the statistic being direct from your ass.
Your "real life experience" is a pretty funny idea too, seeing as how you apparently think that all 1.4 billion Chinese people are so effectively controlled that even though they all hate living there they will never let their friends and family know. Seems like a fantasy to me. I could say that about the US "all Americans hate the us and want to leave but they aren't allowed to say so, so they pretend to like it" it would be patently stupid and there would be no evidence of it, so it'd be on par with your claims.
As far as a utopia, no one said that but you, it's just a strawman argument. It is impossible to make an argument that material conditions for people in China are not improving at one of the most rapid rates in the world.
It really just blows your mind that there are real people with real opinions based on their life experiences that don't reflect your biases.
^That's not a retorical question anymore btw.
Posted with zero irony from someone with the username "Jesus" who is pushing the standard US state department line like he's worldly. show us your dick
Go to Sydney Chinatown and ask them what the opinion of China is and 80% will be pro China not against.
Strike up a conversation in Mandarin with a line cook or waitress, any one of the working class.
Having to pretend to dislike China is a defense mechanism, otherwise the cumskins will turn on you like you're a subhuman or a spy because they all have attitudes like you, which I do get reinforces the notion that overseas Chinese dislike China. But hate crimes against Asians are on the rise, so better safe than sorry.
We are not some brainwashed masses at the beck and call of the CPC, liberals like you just don't understand the concept of critical support. You're either 100% behind something or 100% against it.
You're really bad at this.
Waste of a username.
A literal socialist god, spent on this prick
chyna
The Virgin coherent well structured fact-based essay v.s. The Chad passive aggressive unhinged NATO rambling
Can I see ur hog?
If you are only 15, living in your parent's basement is normal. Also, this forum is for and by adults, please leave.
Dude I am Chinese. I was born in China, my family is from Tianjin and Wuhan. My grandfather grew up illiterate. His comrades were mostly illiterate. One of my grandfather's comrades I call 爷爷 was the one that went from a peasant family to living in a flat he owns.
你认识多少华人？