The Finns lost the winter war, then ate more soviet boot when they fought with the nazis to genocide Leningrad.
Much like Sherman in the South, Stalin didn't go far enough with the Finns
Yeah the Soviets concretely achieved their goal of seizing a large buffer around Leningrad. They didn't conquer Finland because they never wanted to conquer Finland.
I have a Finnish friend and I've met his Finnish friends. They get really fecking upset about the Winter War and the Continuation War.
the mannerheim line was the best, most well fortified defensive line in europe. better than the maginot line because the planners looked at that and tried to make a better one.
the soviets smashed through that in months in one of the worst conditions you can have. finns have nothing to be proud of.
But the keystone to the Finnish defensive arch was the famous Mannerheim Line on the Karelian Isthmus based on the second largest industrial town in Finland, Viborg (Viipuri), The right of this formidable system of fortifications rested on the sea in The forward the Gulf of Finland and its left on Lake Ladoga. The forward zone was within 21 miles of Leningrad, the second largest city in the U.S.S.R. with a population of over three million inhabitants. If, as Napoleon had said, “ Antwerp is a pistol held at England's head,” what was the Mannerheim Line to the Soviet Union in these days of modern long-range artillery?
The Mannerheim Line had been constructed with the best military advice, including that of the British General, Sir Walter Kirke, who had given it a final inspection june, 1939. In the early Finnish communiques it was referred to as Ihe Kirke-Maginot Line. Based on a plan similar to that of the Maginot Line, it incorporated what that passive defence system lacked, the ideas of the more active defence of the Siegfried Line. Thus, it could be used when the 'time was ripe, for offensive action; as visualised in the “ Hoffman ” plan, cherished by Germany for her Baltic invasion of the U.S.S.R. up to August, 1939.
There were three zones in this system. The forward zone of a depth varying from three to eight miles and consisting of concrete block-houses and pill-boxes, equipped with machineguns, anti-tank guns and field artillery, and guarded by barbed wire, anti-tank traps and land mines.
The second zone, the main line of defence was some 70 miles in length, and ran from its “right on the coast fortress of Koivisto, across Lake Muolaa, then along the Vuoksi waterway and finishing with its left at the fortress of Taipale at the mouth of that river on Lake Ladoga. It was seven miles in depth except in the lake districts, where it narrowed to two miles. The fortifications of this section were two-storied in depth, embedded in the ground and constructed of reinforced concrete and armour plate. Armed with heavy artillery, each fort was capable of independent defensive action. All were protected by barbed wire, trenches ,tank traps and land mines. There were in all 350 two-storey reinforced concrete underground forts and 2,257 granite emplacements.
The third zone was centered on the rail junction and industrial town of Viborg and was a special fortified area of some 25 miles in circumference.
If military thought considered the French Maginot Line impregnable from frontal assault, and the German Command evidently did think so or they would not have gone round through Belgium as they did, this Mannerheim Line with its flanks secure would have been even more so.
from here
Do you know anything about this author? All I found is a record of him being banned from lecturing to the British Army in 1944. It's a classic PR non-answer that drops a hint at larger controversy without any details
Perhaps, in view of the allegations which have been publicly made, I may add that no search of Major Hooper's rooms and belongings was made by any military authority.
Was Major Hooper silenced for contradicting the Winter War narrative? Was he targeted as a communist sympathizer? Seems plausible.
I have no idea to be honest, but yeah trying to find a source on winter war that isnt horribly biased towards the finnish side in the western world is almost impossible. The bourgeoisie of finland first tried to make the civil war the grand achievement of myth building, but it's harder to hide the facts when you killed your own people. Winter War though, a heroic fight against the asiatic hordes? There's a certain way that HAS to be displayed, especially after WW2 was close to being over and they were gearing up for the Cold War.
I only found this text by him because it was quoted in this article
Bit idea: start telling libs the Winter War was bad because Ukrainians died
that IS a statement I've heard actually, how we shouldnt help them because of the wars
That's one I haven't heard, usually it's "proof how much Stalin hated Ukrainians, he forced them to die in Finland by threatening them with his big spoon".
it was something about how they were driven by the
to push them into the lines of our brave heroic finnish heroes and crashed upon them like waves dying in the thousands, but they definitely should've deserted to our glorious side instead of attacking us at all, actually.the mind of the nationalistic finn is a pathway to many stories, some which may appear...fanciful
Maybe the real main was the friends we made along the way?
I wish there was a good book on that.
I mostly hear about how "inept" and "unprepared" Soviets were in the war.
there was a good thread about books and articles and stuff 3 months ago
not a self plug, because i wasnt the only one posting them
I recommended something in that thread so I'm answering my own question. Haha
But I didn't see the Finnish Civil War recommendation so I'll check that out. Thanks!
Actually, the Mannerheim line was deliberately weak and exposed Finns to Soviet arms, only to prove how terrible Soviet strategy/engineering/whatever was and exalt the Finnish victory. Each Finnish soldier, despite only being armed with a wooden spoon, defeated a hundred Russian Orks, armed with the best and worst tanks.
EDIT: I'm very drunk. Satire.
It's just the usual anti-communist cope. The Soviets really lost in Finland just like the USA didn't really lose in Vietnam.
Finland would be bigger today if the Reds had won the civil war there.
Call anyone who glorifies the Whites cucked for importing and defending a monarchy from Germany, with the anti-Finnish belief that Finns couldn't rule themselves.
