Removed by mod
Is it unethical to hide that I’m the landlord?
Removed by modHi Chapos throwaway for obvious reasons.
I’ve managed to buy an apartment, two bedrooms. I live in it, but I rent the other room out. Is it unethical for me to hide that I’m the owner?
I don’t really lie-lie, like if I’m asked straight up I’ll answer, but I’ll avoid it if possible.
It’s mostly because it creates an odd power dynamic and I’d rather have a flatmate than a tenant if that makes sense.
Reason I bought is I don’t want to deal with landlords, obviously.
Do I get the wall?
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just because youre hiding the power dynamic doesnt mean there isnt one there.
If my flatmate was my landlord that would wildly change how i would behave towards them out of self preservation.
youre depriving them of the oppurtunity to act caustiously towards you because youre 'chill, trust me' and you dont want them on their gaurd even though they should be on their gaurd, because you weild the power to make them homeless
edit: also how are you even hiding it, dont they have to send you the money? or sign a contract?
Yeah even if we (for the sake of the argument assume that OP is chill as fuck) There is still a power dynamic at play. Frankly hiding this fact is unfair towards the flatmate imho.
Fair points. But by analogy, there’s not always an obligation to disclose stuff that might make others cautious. With concealed carry, for example, you wouldn’t go around brandishing it unless you want trouble.
Head tenant situations are pretty common here, where one person is in charge of landlord relations, so it’s not odd to not have any paperwork. I give the option of signing stuff, but people are happy to just do informal.
the question regarded ethics, in this case i think the correct ethical thing to do is inform them. As an aside i dont think i support concealed carry, if someone is carrying a weapon capable of killing multiple people i think that should be declared so people know to stay away from them
Kinda surprised by the responses here. I don't really care how many houses you have, the bottom line is that you're extorting money from another person in exchange for their access to a basic necessity. That sucks and there's no way to make it not suck. Get a real job.
You could do that, but that isn't rent. I wouldn't criticize OP for charging someone a rough estimate of the cost of their use of utilities or whatever, but how likely is it that that's what is happening?
Semantics. What would you use as short hand for "sharing the cost of living and you get your own room" if not "rent out a room"? If this was posted on
id jump to the worst possible conclusion too, but maybe ask OP before doing that here.I mean if you're not profiting and are literally just covering the extra expenses incurred by having a second person living in your home, first of all why? I mean it's nice and all but I'm just suspicious of acts of charity like that (and certainly wouldn't assume that that is what's happening instead of the much more likely option)
And second, if you are performing that act of charity, why would you feel guilty or wonder if you're getting the wall? If I were doing that I wouldn't consider myself a landlord or feel any guilt for it at all. That's called having a roommate. I guess on paper legally you're still the landlord but it's a different thing ethically.
Well he's definitely not profiting based on his answers elsewhere in the thread.
I think when Hexamerous says "sharing the cost of living" they're also including an at-cost fraction of the mortgage corresponding to the proportion of the unit the tenant is using.
Well he's definitely not profiting based on his answers elsewhere in the thread.
Keep in mind that OP had posted 0 total comments in the thread last time I wrote a comment.
I think when Hexamerous says "sharing the cost of living" they're also including an at-cost fraction of the mortgage corresponding to the proportion of the unit the tenant is using.
Why should someone else pay your mortgage?
I just figured it was worth pointing out in case you hadn't seen it—apologies if it came off as passive aggressive or anything.
Why should someone else pay your mortgage?
Because they're using part of the place the mortgage pays for. Otherwise OP could just store stuff in the bedroom, have family stay there, etc.
Believe me, I'm searching for a place right now after couch surfing with my mom for half a year with a pretty dinky income, so I hold no love for landlords or the institution of renting. Still, renting out an extra room in your place if residence is fairly low on my list of things to take umbrage with
I just figured it was worth pointing out in case you hadn't seen it—apologies if it came off as passive aggressive or anything.
No worries!
Because they're using part of the place the mortgage pays for
Yes, temporarily. And when the mortgage is paid, OP owns the house forever and can, as always, kick out those who paid the mortgage any time. Or just keep extorting them for personal gain. Either way, they don't get shit.
Otherwise OP could just store stuff in the bedroom, have family stay there, etc.
Exactly why I don't really like the argument that OP "isn't that bad" or is "not like the other landlords" or "isn't gaining anything" or whatever. The reason OP doesn't just store stuff in the bedroom, or have family stay there, or whatever is because OP is exploiting another person for personal gain. He is acting according to his own material interests, leeching another person's hard-earned money to pay for his house. OP even describes the amount of rent he is charging as "market rate." He's literally just another landlord, no different from the perspective of his tenant from any other landlord in the area. (except that he thinks he's a superhero with a secret identity. leech man! lurks in the bathtub and sucks your blood while you're not looking)
I feel like I accidentally fell asleep and now I'm just in some kind of dream where all of hexbear forgot why being a landlord is bad.
I feel like I accidentally fell asleep and now I'm just in some kind of dream where all of hexbear forgot why being a landlord is bad.
I feel like ultimately a lot of it boils down to experiences like what CocteauChameleons said below:
rooms for rent have been the only way I’ve survived on my own other than sleeping in my car
It's sorta hard to look at a situation that is, yes, exploitative, but less so than almost any other option available to most people, and say "nope you should just eat the cost and fill the bedroom with storage or a guest bed" and make sure that option isn't available to anyone.
But honestly the urge to hide it is very sus no matter how you slice it, and OP could have presumably like, bought a smaller unit he could actually afford solo, or could find a long term roommate and either literally make them part-owner of the property, or cut the rent back to just half of non-mortgage expenses or something so he wouldn't be exploiting them
exploitative, but less so than almost any other option available to most people
It's exactly as exploitative as every other option available in OP's area according to OP himself, as he says he is charging market rate.
Seriously, the responses are wild.
Next there's going to be a poster who just happened to get a job as a cop trying to get sympathy for hiding that he's currently undercover while hanging out with friends cause he doesn't want to be treated like a pig. And the commenters will be like - oh it's okay some cops are chill
Wild
as long as you're the cop standing in the background and not the one kneeling on some guy's neck you're cool, you're not the problem, dont worry about it
or if the profit is directly covering basic needs that his job isn't enough to cover.
If only his victim were given the same consideration.
Look, I don't give a shit about theft on principle. Steal from corporations if you need to, or if it would make life easier, or just for fun. I don't care about that. But stealing from your fellow worker is unacceptable, especially one that is indisputably worse off than yourself. I bet OP's tenant would love to be in such a position that they could purchase a home and have to worry about things like whether leeching from the working class earns you the wall (it does)
Again if OP is just covering the expenses incurred by the tenant/roommate then whatever, but if there's profit involved then I've got nothing in common with him
You're talking about lying to your tenants that you're the landlord?
"Oh better pay your rent because the real estate company is chasing me" what a fucking thing to suggest
You telling the truth or lying about being the landlord doesn't create the odd power dynamic - the power dynamic comes from them having to give you money in order to have shelter. You can't avoid it.
First sign of landlord brain - I should lie to my tenants so I feel better about the power relationship
I like what Hexboare said:
First sign of landlord brain - I should lie to my tenants so I feel better about the power relationship
Like others pointed out the power dynamic is there regardless. By obscuring the full details you are using the dynamic to your advantage, preventing the other tenant from making fully informed decisions about the situation.
I want to be able to ask my flatmate to not put dishes in the sink without it being a landlord/tenant dynamic.
It’s not the money/shelter trade that bugs me. It’s the lick-my-ass/or-be-homeless setup that I don’t like.
Also just to be clear I don’t outright lie, but I don’t tell unless I’m explicitly asked.
If you don't like the "lick-my-ass/or-be-homeless setup", try not being a landlord.
I'm such a smol bean landlord, pwease forgive me hexbear, I just have to exploit another human being for my own financial gain but it gives me a sad uwu
I think it's worse because the landlord is going to be unwittingly surveilling the tenant whenever they're there. Like he can just boot them if they do something he doesn't enjoy, whereas there's a lot more leeway (rightly and wrongly) with a roommate that you can't just kick out.
Exactly. That’s not a good vibe, and no amount of ‘just trust me bro’ gets rid of it. (Especially if you proactively bring it up “just so you know, I can make you homeless but dw”.)
I bought such a tiny eensy weensy property and now I have to use it to exploit someone. Otherwise someone will exploit me. I'm so tiny and smol I can't handle the exploitation that you all do, that's why I have to exploit you all. Pwease, no more bad feelings, thank you!
Then you should communicate that with the people there, because surely the relationship is going to be pretty fucked if they find out you're the owner?
I don't know the cohort of people renting the room but I would think I'd find out pretty quickly and I think it would be hard to not disclose without lying. However I do a title search before renting so maybe I'm not the best example.
Completely disregarding the ethical stuff of just being a landlord no matter how smol, don't fucking hide the fact that you own the apartment. That's a classic dick move if there has ever been one.
Frankly I don't know how one would even think it's okay to consider hiding it, but since I can't stop you I can only tell you that if you do decide to hide it you're a fucking asshole and you can go fuck yourself.
When do I have to declare it? In the ad? At the viewing? When it could fit into a conversation? When they ask about it directly?
Right now I’ve decided on that last one.
generally i think the correct time is in the ad ("i am renting a room in my flat for co habitation")
Cool that you've decided to be a fucking asshole now go fuck yourself
Don't really think "guy who owns a single apartment and is renting out a room" is equivalent to a "landlord".
Depending on what you charge in rent, I suppose.
Funnel all the money you make off of your tenants into Hezbollah
Even if you were a landlord, landlords that own a single property aren't going to get the wall. Is it unethical? Idk honestly. If they don't know they might talk a lot of shit about you though.
Maybe just explain that you don't want to be treated like a landlord and that you aren't going to get on them about not cleaning their room enough or whatever
I don't think you should hide it, and I think the dynamic itself really depends on whether the "rent" here is substantially more than your share.
You don't have a flatmate if you're charging that flatmate more than your own costs, that's not mutual housesharing, it's about profit.
I'd be charitable about it and assume you do actually mean equal living though because there's no way for anyone here to know one way or another. In which case if it is basically sharing of house costs fairly then it's not really the same as landlording even if you technically own it.
I’m technically charging less than my costs. But also, it’s quite common for houses to be rented out for less than the cost of ownership. We call it negative gearing, idea being to make a loss on paper after interest on the mortgage for tax reasons. (The real profit comes from capital gain.)
That said, I don’t have the capital to make it positively geared.
I don't really mind this all that much. Willing to be charitable about it. I would not agree with hiding it though.
I don't know how different I am to other leftists on this but I don't think 1 or 2 home owners are the bulk of our problem. Ok most of them are petty-bourgeoise tyrants but also many are just people that don't know better.
You're a communist, you know what's fair and what exploitation is. I think you will know if you're crossing that line. Ultimately nobody here will have enough information to know for sure one way or another so we can only urge you to act responsibly.
I get it though. I had an inheritance from a bereavement that threw me into a similar situation of owning more property than I planned on owning at one point. I suspect that's not an uncommon experience.
I'd prefer a situation where you and the flatmate have equal stake in the property.
Just remember to rush into the telephone booth to remove your glasses when changing into landlord guy. And have ready an excuse why tenant guy is never onsite when landlord guy comes around.
I would be honest about owning the property from the get go. Because if it ever came out that you're the owner (and it most certainly will) that would create a very awkward situation.
In my eyes so long as you are paying for the mortgage/house loan, and not passing on passing on the burden that the tenant won't gain from then your ethically in the clear.
As for what the tenant would pay, I see no reason not to go 50:50 on the bills with the tenant, and potentially getting them contributing to a ground rent (not sure if that's a thing outside of the UK, but it's basically where the owner of an apartment pays the owner of the building to help with upkeep).
You might even consider a situation where you agree a monthly surplus to set aside in the event of repairs that may need to be done, agreeing that any money they put in is returned to them as the end of their tenancy if no such repairs were needed.
At the end of the day if you have a tenant you shouldn't be extracting any value from them for your own benefit, beyond the obvious benefit of sharing living expenses.
If anyone disagrees with me I'd really love to hear it.
Valid considerations. I’ll think about how best to calculate stuff when costs fall below market rent.
That said imo fixing stuff is a capital expense/investment, not renter’s responsibility. It’s factored into rent, but I wouldn’t set a separate fund aside or anything. If something old breaks and I replace it, I’ve got the benefit of owning something new. (And the tax benefits of depreciation.)
The power dynamic IS the fact that you and you alone have a choice in how this relationship works (landlord/tenant vs flatmate/flatmate). Wild that after "managing" to own property you would start using your power to twist relationships to your own end. Who would have guessed a landlord would be power tripping and shady
I think owning more than 1 home is wrong but I don't care how many rooms that 1 home has
Yes.
You're going to be living with this person, do you want the foundation of the relationship to be a lie? They'll probably figure it out eventually anyway.
I figure that’s preferable to telling them outright, because it gives a chance for a relationship to form first.
No because then they won't be able to trust you, because you lied about the nature of the relationship
Yeah, it’s a bit baffling that OP doesn’t see the importance of being upfront about stuff like this.
I hope OP is just young, and this is simply a lack of maturity.
Yeah, this sort of view on lying:
Also just to be clear I don’t outright lie, but I don’t tell unless I’m explicitly asked.
Denotes a manipulative person or someone with very little interpersonal experience.
