• marx_mentat [he/him, comrade/them]
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    The amount of upvotes on some truly heinous replies in this thread (and many other threads here) should be alarming to anyone.

      • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        Anti-communism is an open door to fascism. Vulgar anti-communism IS fascism.

        The Soviet Union and The People's Republic of China are #1 and #2 for the greatest reductions in poverty and improvements to living standards in human history.

        • Unmarketable Plushie@pawb.social
          ·
          1 year ago

          I'm a socialist you fucking loser. Shut the fuck up and think before assuming I'm a fascist for disagreeing with you.

          The Soviet Union and The People's Republic of China are #1 and #2 for the greatest reductions in poverty and improvements to living standards in human history.

          HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

          • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Did I say you were a fascist? I said that anti-communism leaves the door open to fascists. And I said that ideologically vulgar anti-communism is the underpinning of fascism. These are both true. If you make your community about anti-communism, fascists will come. And fascism gains power when the capitalist class is in crisis and chooses a less profitable closed society that keeps the left in check rather than see their power realistically challenged.

            You can laugh all you want at easily researched facts but they're still true. China. I'll edit when I find one for the USSR that isn't a lecture or a book, but in the meantime reflect on how they went from feudal farmers to the first people in space within a generation yuri Oh. And they did it without the stolen wealth of entire continents in the southern hemisphere.

              • Ram_The_Manparts [he/him]
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                You're an anti-communist clown that would gladly collaborate with fascists

                In fact, you're actively hoping for an opportunity to do so, just so you could oWn tHe tAnKiEs

                Eat shit

                  • Nakoichi [they/them]
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Let me rephrase that in a way you might better understand:

                    You're an anti-communist clown that would gladly collaborate with fascists

                    In fact, you're actively hoping for an opportunity to do so, just so you could oWn tHe tAnKiEs

                    Eat shit

                    Ah shit I just said the same thing @Ram_The_Manparts@hexbear.net said, ah well guess there isn't any better way to say it shrug-outta-hecks

              • Flaps [he/him]
                ·
                1 year ago

                You don't know shit about my political opinions

                Neither do you it seems. I'm going to assume a couple of things here, correct me if I'm wrong.

                • You live in a western country
                • you're no older than 25
                • you've never read any theory. No Engels, no Marx, no Lenin, no Luxembourg, nothing.
                • you spend a lot of time watching streamers. probably v*ush, which is the only one I've heard of so far and god do I wish I didn't.
                • your political and ideological views are pretty much a direct representation of the views of said streamers.
                • anything to the left of you, you consider 'wrongthink', and attempt to shut down your own learning process by calling everyone who says things you don't like a tankie.
                • you don't like tankies because they are 'authoritarian' but refuse to learn what the question of authority actually entails. I'll link Engels' 'On authority' so you can read that and see where we're coming from (https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm). There are also audiobooks because I'm assuming you won't read this either.
                • you can't spell 'bourgeoisie' without looking it up on the internet.
                • ReadFanon [any, any]
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago
                  • You believe that communists stabbed Makhnovia in the back

                  • You believe that Makhnovia was an example of anarchist principals put into practice

                  • You have no idea that the Makhnovists had a secret police, that they engaged in the summary execution of political rivals, and that committed genocidal acts against German settlers and especially Mennonites in Ukraine

                  • You believe that communists stabbed the Spanish Republic in the back

                  • You believe that major parts of the Spanish Republic are an example of anarchism put into practice

                  • You have no idea that the Spanish Republic had forced labour camps, extreme levels of control over labourers and the movement and spending habits of the people, zero desire to lose their colonial holdings over the part of Morocco that was their colony because they aspired to colonise more of Africa and that they rejected overtures from the Moroccan people who sued for independence with very favourable conditions for the Spanish Republic, and all the apparatuses of state that you would expect from a typical government

                  • You are unable to provide a functional definition of fascism without looking it up

                  • GreatWhiteNope [she/her]
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    That’s a pretty big assumption that they’d have enough historical knowledge to even know these were a thing.

                • Egon
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                  edit-2
                  4 months ago

                  deleted by creator

          • mazdak
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            deleted by creator

          • Awoo [she/her]
            ·
            1 year ago

            The Soviet Union and The People's Republic of China are #1 and #2 for the greatest reductions in poverty and improvements to living standards in human history.

            This is a factually true statement. You should check it.

            • Unmarketable Plushie@pawb.social
              ·
              1 year ago

              Stalin would've thrown you in a gulag for being a "sexual deviant" if you lived in the Soviet Union during his reign. In China you are just straight up not allowed to get HRT unless you have a clean criminal record and your ENTIRE FAMILY approves on top of the standard medical gatekeeping. If even one family member disapproves of your transition (which is almost certainly likely considering how popular transphobia is there) the government is like "nope sorry can't help you there" and will throw you in prison if you try to get HRT by other means.

              I do not know why the fuck you want to lick boots that would kick you in the face.

              • Awoo [she/her]
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                So? The europeans were imprisoning and chemically castrating us at the time. It was queer people in the GDR that caused a lot of the social movements that improved Europe on lgbt issues in fact. Here's a great video on that topic.

                You are yet another liberal that only views history by comparing it to the present instead of within its correct historical context.

                I also don't see what it has to do with the previous factually correct statement. You are desperately diverting away from the point.

          • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]
            ·
            1 year ago

            Where are all the Native Americans, dronie?

            The sparrows were considered a pest and the policy to exterminate them was clearly a bad one, but you know what? Trying to exterminate pests that you see eating your food and having it backfire isn't exactly a deliberate crime against humanity. Compare with capitalism which actually is implicated by famines of greed like Bengal and Ireland.

            Why did the US exterminate the buffalo? Were they eating your food? Were you trying to increase the food supply when you were doing it? Or were you trying to starve an entire continent of people so you could kick over their last dying armies and fertilize your crops with their remains?

            • GBU_28@lemm.ee
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              The native Americans were not seen as citizens at that time. They were driven out. This was reprehensible.

              Fyi this is how all territory, on the planet, was acquired.

              Remember ghengis Khan? The whole shape of China is the result of MASSIVE imperialism and conquest. Neither ghengis (or the many other conquesting leaders of China, including mao) or Jackson are alive now, so their actions are historical in nature.

              The difference is china did that to their own people, through incompetence, not though land acquisition.

              Be clear: I'm not advocating imperialism, but there is a certain difference between killing millions of people through displacement, and killing millions of YOUR OWN PEOPLE through idiocy.

              Especially since the four pests campaign occurred less than 100 years ago.

              Also great whataboutism, I never claimed america was the gold standard, only that china and the Soviet union certainly don't own the crown.

              https://alphahistory.com/chineserevolution/a-soviet-scientist-on-the-four-pests-campaign-1964/

              Edit: "lol ghengis Khan old" yeah, he's dead and so are his "voters". So is Andrew Jackson and his "voters".

              Edit edit: don't decry me for being "jingoistic" in a thread where I called a guy out for simping for a nation state in the first place.

              • ShareThatBread [he/him, comrade/them]
                ·
                1 year ago

                Be clear: I'm not advocating imperialism, but there is a certain difference between killing millions of people through displacement, and killing millions of YOUR OWN PEOPLE through idiocy.

                Memory holing Covid already

              • Nakoichi [they/them]
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                As someone with a lot of indigenous family friends and comrades I sincerely hope you get in the fucking pit

                @ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone This is the kind of shit you are cool with? Seriously?

                Like this user is literally justifying genocide.

                • SuperNovaCouchGuy2 [any]
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Man I'm sorry you had to see that bastard demonstrate how much of an irredeemable piece of shit he is. America is a demonic state built on stolen land, may it be destroyed and the land returned to the original owners, the indigenous peoples.

              • silent_water [she/her]
                ·
                1 year ago

                but there is a certain difference between killing millions of people through displacement, and killing millions of YOUR OWN PEOPLE through idiocy.

                intentional genocide is far, far worse. and every legal system recognizes this. it's literally the difference between manslaughter and murder.

                • AcidSmiley [she/her]
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  You're arguing with somebody who's employing the classic fascist "but the communists killed THEIR OWN people, it's less bad to murder people from a racial outgroup" trope. That's literally what they said. They claim to be an anarchist, yet their point hinges on a pure "blood and soil" reasoning, where genocide is just "land accquisition". Absolute Generalplan Ost hours in that post.

              • mkultrawide [any]
                ·
                1 year ago

                The native Americans were not seen as citizens at that time.

                simping for a nation state

                same-picture

                • GBU_28@lemm.ee
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Used as a retort to a "Soviet Russia and china saved the world" comment.

                  • mkultrawide [any]
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Yes, and then you did apologetics for a genocide by claiming it wasn't as bad because the victims weren't citizens of the state doing the genocide, which is:

                    simping for a nation state

                  • Egon
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    4 months ago

                    deleted by creator

              • Sasuke [comrade/them]
                ·
                1 year ago

                The native Americans were not seen as citizens at that time. They were driven out.

                the colonization of america is the greatest act of genocide through all of human history. saying the native americans were just 'driven out' is fucking demonic. then again, i guess by your logic it's fine, since the europeans weren't killing 'their own' people

                • Nakoichi [they/them]
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  As someone with many comrades from the Lakota and Navajo nations and more I cannot express how fucking mad I am right now about this whole thing.

                  I would commit unspeakable acts of violence on these motherfuckers if they said any of this to my face.

                • ReadFanon [any, any]
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  Show

                  Show

                  I'm pretty sure it was simply a gentlemen's agreement where the native peoples decided to make space for the colonists by moving out of the way /s

              • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]
                ·
                1 year ago

                It is straight up fascist ideology to speak about violence and conquest as being innate human traits and the natural order of history. It's fucking wrong, by the way. And likewise this talk of human life being worth differently if it's "one of your own people" versus an "other" being killed.

                wHaTaBouTiSM

                The cynicism with which your accusations are made is fair criticism.

              • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                ·
                1 year ago

                The prioritization of the importance of "their own people" is transparently jingoistic thinking that you are just glossing over

                  • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    Do you not understand a difference between evaluating the merit of a national project in general and, within the context of evaluating one such project, prioritizing the moral importance of that country's own people over humanity in general?

                    Put another way, giving moral priority to citizens and considering the butchering of "non-citizens" a lesser crime (even when those people were citizens who had their citizenship stripped away from them) is reactionary. Practical priority is a little different because logistical limitations are real, but these people are just excusing literal ethnic cleansing.

              • mazdak
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                deleted by creator

              • infuziSporg [e/em/eir]
                ·
                1 year ago

                Fyi this is how all territory, on the planet, was acquired.

                Literal fascist talking point, and baby-level understanding of history.

                You'd do well to remember that Mao never fought outside of China.

                Remember ghengis Khan? The whole shape of China is the result of MASSIVE imperialism and conquest.

                Congratulations, you know 1 fact about Asian history. Meanwhile, 90% of Chinese live in lands that were part of the Han state, 1500 years before Genghis.

                No one here is saying that Communist China or the USSR didn't make mistakes. If you compare them to the west, the difference is that after the first 30 years, you no longer had famines in the socialist countries. The capitalist countries, however, still had famines an embarrassing length of time after their founding- although some of that was deliberate colonial violence like the Winston Churchill administration stealing and withholding grain from Bengal as redundant strategic reserves, and killing 5 million people in just a few years.

                If you see history as anything more than a collection of random facts, you can apply patterns to things that you can draw conclusions from- like "socialist states have vastly outperformed capitalist states in terms of relative development and improvements in general welfare".

              • build_a_bear_group [he/him, comrade/them]
                ·
                1 year ago

                First, yeah, sure, Mongolians saw things through modern Euro-centric racism to say "we are all the same, there are no Mongolians or Chinese, only backwards Asians". Second, your defense of Native American genocide basically boils down to "your honor, we didn't consider them human when we genocided them"

                • GBU_28@lemm.ee
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  I don't understand your first point. Are you suggesting the ghengis khan's conquest was informed by "euro-centric" learnings or influence? I'll need a source on that.

                  Re the second point I wasn't claiming anyone was or wasn't human, I was indicating that expansionist conquest occured in an era of expansionist conquest. A trait not solely owned by Europeans/Americans. China has a massive history of conflict along ethnic and tribal lines, and a massive history of conquest too.

                  Conquest, war and "dehumanization" is evidenced by their borders, everyone's borders, everywhere. Throughout history.

                  No one is clean, and no one is a hero.

                  • build_a_bear_group [he/him, comrade/them]
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    The post was very clearly saying that Ghengis Khan and the post-Mongolian Chinese state is a worse form of conquest and murder because they were conquering and killing their own people.

                    But the US was killing Native Americans which weren't citizens, so it is not as bad as killing your own people like the Mongolian/Chinese/Mao.

              • iie [they/them, he/him]
                ·
                1 year ago

                why is it worse to attempt to prevent famine, and fail, than it is to attempt to genocide people and succeed?

              • PosadistInevitablity [he/him]
                ·
                1 year ago

                "Killing your own people" Is literally Nazi discourse.

                It's how they differentiated between Germans and German Jews. They weren't really 'their people', so it wasn't bad.

                Do better.

              • Gelamzer
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                deleted by creator

              • nekahat
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                deleted by creator

      • uralsolo
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        deleted by creator

            • Unmarketable Plushie@pawb.social
              ·
              1 year ago

              At no point have I defended ableism or transphobia. In fact, as a trans woman with mental disabilities, I'm actually offended that you're trying to use my struggles to try and smear anyone who disagrees with you. Especially considering you're advocating for regimes that were/are terrible to queer people and/or disabled people.

              • SuperNovaCouchGuy2 [any]
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                Ok but the context is that your blahaj's mod team is really pathetic, they let disgusting transphobic chasers make dehumanizing comments without repercussions, let instances of ableist language go unpunished (one of the mods apparently is an ableist piece of shit), and are fine with racist white supremacist comments. This creates a really awful environment for the userbase, I'm sure you'd agree.

                In response to this, you bascially silence the criticism ("Shut up tankie") because "muh tankies" are the ones who are pointing this out.

                In effect, such a statement is apologia for the mod team's allowance of bigotry (ableism, racism and transphobia) using whataboutery.

                I acknowledge the awful struggles that trans people have to go through in this shithole capitalist world, and thus see it as imperative that bigotry is not tolerated so that at least there is some relief from such barbarism in the cyber realm.

                Especially considering you're advocating for regimes that were/are terrible to queer people and/or disabled people.

                Sorry thats wrong, I hate NATO m8.

                  • SuperNovaCouchGuy2 [any]
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    ok but you can look at the ableism, racism, and transphobic comments on this instance and come to this conclusion as well without our input, many users of blahaj.zone aren't happy with their mod team's bigotry apologia too

                    also please dont call me a genocide denier, I hate NATO and dont support its existence

      • 1nt3rd1m3nt10n4l [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        I am a Communist, and I will always be a Communist.

        I support the political sovereignty of workers' states across the world, and I will always do so.

        You are a Western Chauvinist, a reactionary, and an Imperialist; however you can choose to be otherwise by engaging in international workers solidarity, and defending workers' states against Capitalist encroachment.

      • ahshidahfuck [none/use name]
        ·
        1 year ago

        eventually you will stop being 14. hopefully your brain develops enough by then that you understand why everyone is dunking on you.