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Literally every AES takes the approach China does. If they haven’t, it’s due to the effects of US sanctions, not some desire for ideological purity.
Cuba? Just implemented market reforms, and has had a tourism based economy for a while, to get those American dollars. Admires China’s approach.
Laos? Landlocked country doing its absolute best to become land linked with China’s help, so it can, presumably, marketise.
DPRK? Has been trying to pivot to a reform-and-opening-up approach recently, but sanctions make that harder. Thriving second economy.
Vietnam? If anything it’s gone harder on Doi Moi than China went on Reform and Opening Up. State banks have more private ownership, and real estate is huge. It also didn’t shut out US tech companies, so it doesn’t have as strong national champions.
Vietnam's existence does not pose a threat to the hegemonic power of the countries they reside in and the privileges such grants to its populaces, of which they are a part of.
They remind me of chuds in that regard. They can prattle on and on about how the japanese are the 'good asians' and 'have no problems with them' for X or Y reason all they want, but it is a complete certainty that they would fully reverse that attitude if japan suddenly were the size of the PRC and had its increasing economical power.
For them those places are naught but a cute pet they fancy or a curious sight to gaze upon occasionally for amusement, and they better not dare try to be more than that.
I remember when Japan was the economic threat to America. The chuds then absolutely hated the Japanese.
My pet theory is that Trump hates China because the Japanese bought buildings he wanted in the 80s, and he's too out of it to remember they're different countries.
They can prattle on and on about how the japanese are the ‘good asians’ and ‘have no problems with them’ for X or Y reason all they want, but it is a complete certainty that they would fully reverse that attitude if japan suddenly were the size of the PRC and had its increasing economical power.
RIP to Vincent Chin, the Chinese man who was beaten to death in the US during the Japan scare of the 80's by two white Chuds who thought he was Japanese and therefore "stealing jobs".
But yeah, your post is absolutely spot on. That's why when leftists disavow China for having billionaires, I always ask if they are willing to also disavow Vietnam for the same.
I can at least respect the ones who say "yes" for intellectual consistency.
Well, I am not a y*nk, for starters.
I mean, I know about the fear-mongering that was going around your media because I have read about it (it is basically the same script being used against the PRC), but it is not something I would have been particularly aware of at the time, never mind the fact I am not old enough to have been looking to read political/financial press, much less foreign, during the heyday of such affairs.
Nah we Westerners don't fetishisize marginality and misery. Wtf you talking about bro? Vietnam is cooler because they had to have more bombs dropped on them n their neighbors than the entirety of WW2 and had to deal with subjugation to competing imperialist interests throughout their existence.
I will say that China has been a shitty neighbor in the past, especially when Pol Pot was around. You can criticize on those grounds, but economically nah. People can be as ideologically pure as they want, but I imagine being thrust in charge of managing an entire economy would be very sobering
Yeah North Korea is the only midway developed country to not be a part of the WTO and it's Cuba and DPRK who aren't members of the world bank.
This means being isolated by the rest of the world by default to a comparable way to counties under US sanctions are.
It's simply just easier to give into the washington consensus than to try and forge your own path. The only reason China, has been able to forge their own path is because of their size. This said, if you're anywhere touching the DC consensus you're no longer practicing anything relating to socialism.
it's a shame about the thousand years of historical baggage between them
Calling it "historical baggage between them" is problematic both-sidesing tbh.
The Han Empire, then the Yuan Empire then the Ming Empire then the PRC all invaded Vietnam for purely selfish reasons and the Vietnamese people either beat back these invasions or were exploited by the Chinese ruling class for hundreds of years. The people of Vietnam never threatened or invaded China and have never been in a position where there was a credible threat of that happening. The conflict doesn't go both ways and presenting it as if it does isn't great as it puts pressure on the oppressed to make it up to the oppressor rather than vice versa.
I see now how it sounds both-sidesy, I didn't intend it that way and I should have been more descriptive about how asymmetric it was
Sino Soviet split. Vietnam on Soviet side.
Cambodia (Khmer Rouge) was on China-US side.
Khmer Rouge starts genociding Vietnamese because they’re insane ultra-Maoists.
Vietnam invades and installs a classic Soviet government.
China invades Vietnam, capturing three cities before retreating, as a way of telling Vietnam to fuck off.
Vietnam doesn’t fuck off until the USSR falls, at which point the UN restores the Cambodian monarchy.
khmer rouge was never on US side. the monarchy was allied with US and fought the communists.
Agreed. Its marginally better now, i mean, i can umderstand the realpolitik of selling the filipino govt weapons, but just about everything China did involving SEA/Vietnam/khmer rouge was utter trash policy. If anything, one could say it makes China (of that period) the "2nd world imperielists" Mao accussed the USSR of being, prehaps the purpose of his dogshit 3 worlds theory was to obfuscate these circumstances.
Edit: and i love Mao, but he was just straight wrong here so props to my boi Enver Hoxher for calling him out on that shit.
It seems like when the Sino Soviet split happened, China just sided the opposite of the USSR to get back at them. Astoundingly stupid and will bite them in the back when the new Cold War takes off.
I’ve actually encountered at least two anti-Vietnam pro-China people on Reddit.
vietnam already co operates with china lol they have to its the people that are anti china
Lmfao, Vietnam is even less socialist than China is these days, maybe things can be reversed like Xi has done somewhat in china, but they've privatized the vast majority of their state owned enterprises and plan to do even more of that. They've much more fully bought into the neoliberal status quo, they were willing to join the TPP (and did join the one with Canada) which gave transnational corporations tremendous power over arbitration court and in turn their economy at large.
Just because ho chi minh was good doesn't mean the current state of Vietnam hasn't completely handed over their economy to the neoliberal WTO/IMF machine even though there's a communist party in charge.
Both Vietnam and Laos are deeply on that same trajectory that Gorbachev was on that you can do to communism what brutal capitalist countries did to create social democracy (although with the knowledge of what made the government collapse so it won't happen to them).
https://youtu.be/mMubOw5H-yo here's a good video from Luna Oi about the circumstances that led to Vietnam to where it is now and why it's still socialist.
The logic she uses would be like if the US followed an economic system imposed on them by the Soviet Union and still called itself capitalist.
There's no doubt in my mind that Vietnam isn't still a social democracy. Once you sign onto these transnational trade deals, you give up huge amounts of your sovergnty.
