speaking as someone who thinks they are agender or genderqueer, "no pronoun" might be a nice option for agender. i think you have to either have pronouns or just refer to people directly. "agender" doesn't really point towards what you should do.
I think @TransComrade69 is taking these requests to get them added to the list.
Adding "by name" could be better because then at least people know what to do.
Also "comrade" is a pronoun that could be used even for those with "no pronoun" making it technically incorrect.
C’mon comrades, show solidarity, choose they/them if you don’t want random internet people knowing your gender.
Also, please please make sure your titles make it explicitly clear when it’s a picture of some chud lying there with his face blown off, I wanna make sure I don’t miss that kind of content.
the difference between this thread and the one where we announced the pronoun tags in the first place is staggering. look at the votes on this thread: 25% of people are mad about pronouns. really feeling that solidarity.
don't be, you're a saint with unbelievable patience and fortitude. ❤️
Greatly appreciate what you all have done. You all managed to create the only good place on the internet :cat-trans: :cat-trans: :cat-trans:
25% of people are mad about pronouns. really feeling that solidarity.
what part of gender abolition don't you get?
the part where it means TERF shit about eliminating gender identity rather than the abolition of the social construct that represses our own authentic expressions of our identities.
As an actual gender abolitionist, miss me with that TERF shit as well, put 'any pronoun' or if you hate all of them request a 'no pronouns' option. Just cause its a construct doent mean that its not real or its not important. Allowing people to choose pronouns does build towards abolition, fuck.
There, I set mine. Seems like a small thing to do if it helps people feel more comfortable.
The point of having them sitewide is for everyone to use them to normalize explicitly stating one’s pronouns as a means of not forcing trans people to request to be addressed with basic respect. The amount of pushback on a meaningful step toward trans inclusivity in this community is pretty fucking disheartening, not gonna lie.
A podcast I listen to with 3 hosts, one trans and two cis, does this. The only need there is for one to correctly state their gender. If she didn't, there would be constant misgendering. If she did alone, there would be constant transphobia for being the only person making an issue of it. Instead they use this system and it's a nice show of solidarity which creates a trans-positive atmosphere for any guests and listeners rather than an empty performative gesture. If I'm against it because I'm cishet and there isn't any trauma attached to people misgendering me, that's just being a dumbass liberal who can't see past themselves.
Well There's Your Problem has a lot of potential. They still haven't nailed the right pace or balanced their personalities enough but it's one of the most interesting podcasts in my line-up and a good example of creating an inclusive space.
Also the guy had his own channel before, do not eat, his shit is great.
They still deal with transphobia too but it is often shifts the aimed at the whole show "YOU SAID PRONOUNS WHYYYY instead of just Alice being targeted.
Their audience is split between people who understand its ideological leanings and people who want disaster porn. I'm not sure if it's more by virtue of being a STEM podcast or by virtue of youtube being liberal even on its lefty side, but that's a deradicalisation project more than it is starting from a neutral place and and making it better. In the absence of normalisation it's left being abnormal and a lot of people react to abnormal things with default hostility if only through ignorance.
Yeah I was saying how all of them saying pronouns just protects Alice a little bit.
For the libs shouting “but muh anonymity”, you should have zero issue using the “any pronoun” tag as you will be addressed with any pronouns regardless of whether or not you have it set.
Can we just make this standard and then if people don't like "any pronoun" they can either switch to an actual pronoun or shut the fuck up because there's no blank option?
that deals with the people getting misgendered part but 👀 the transphobia in this thread. that's a whole other thing we also have to deal with.
People in privileged positions advantaged by a system of hierarchy will pushback against anything that takes away their privileged position. In society as socialists we all agree that class-interests based on accumulated wealth affect people's politics, this occurs in other hierarchies too. Cis white men demonstrate a form of patriarchal-interest by pushing back against anything and everything that aims to chip away at the social system that advantages them - patriarchy.
Leftists are not immune to this. It is why patriarchy continues to be an issue in socialist states and will continue to be an issue in any society that solves the class issue. It's also why class reductionism is ridiculous.
fully agreed, I'm saying we can't avoid the struggle, as much as I'd love to burn this thread down and never step foot into another thread about pronouns ever again. so as much as you're right that we can reduce the pronoun problem, I'm not sure we serve ourselves well by eliminating the problem through edict rather than by engaging in the struggle.
The problem is that I'm not sure they will EVER change their tune until patriarchy is completely dismantled. They will act in their group-interest in much the same way liberals with enough wealth will act in their class interests.
We can create class-traitors but we can't effectively achieve a change among them all without eliminating patriarchy altogether, at which point there will no longer be a "class interest" dynamic among the cis white men and they will no longer defend against the loss of the privileged position. They will default to the new normal social organisation of no-patriarchy existing at all.
Unlike with economic class interests there's also no solution rooted in accelerationism or various wealth groups in society growing/shrinking or the kind of situation where it might be hard to achieve socialism in the core but easy within the periphery where class interests differ greatly. It's an absolutely monstrous battle when you consider it in that way and I suspect the ONLY way to resolve it is simply by authoritarian smashing of the patriarchy to establish the new norm and no amount of struggle will change people's minds to make them all go against their social-interests.
I will personally dox, hunt down, and execute every single stupidpol TERF on this site. :ak47: :AC-AnarKitty: :gui-trans:
Probably the easiest way to achieve the goal of pronoun display with the fewest people getting upset because they're being told what to do.
I think that's the part that gets to me. "hey do this or you're a lib" is a personal attack that people are comparing to all kinds of shit. am I going foggy or is "you're a lib" one of the standard responses to people on this site?
I'm kind of glad we didn't have the default and this happened. would have sucked to be blindsided by more serious transphobia later on while continuing to believe this place was the same as a couple of months ago (full-throatedly and unanimously in support of trans people).
Yeah this seems like a good compromise between people wanting to maintain anonymous status online and displaying pronouns. Yeah just have it default to "any pronoun" if the user doesn't pick one.
Countertake: trans people who aren't sure of their gender identity shpuldn't be criticized for leaving it blank.
I'm really disappointed after reading through this thread. If you refuse to take 5 seconds and virtually 0 effort to extend the bare minimum of courtesy to a marginalized group, you don't have solidarity with the oppressed, and you're certainly not thinking or acting like a leftist. I understand that people are at different stages in their radicalization (which is to be expected) but please show some respect and love for our trans/nb comrades instead of digging in your heels over an issue that seems trivial to you. There's a lot of self-centered thinking in this thread from clearly privileged folks.
A lot of cis people love saying ''trans rights'' until they're asked to show the tiniest bit of solidarity. How can we expect you to have our backs when you can't even be bothered to click a button?
And I understand that many don't see it as being a big deal, but normalizing it really is. I've been to leftist spaces irl where I haven't felt safe sharing my pronouns because they didn't mention it so I had no idea if they were terfs or not. (At least one did turn out to be terf though ew but still) And accepting being misgendered in leftist spaces because I don't know if it's safe or not just fucking sucks.
And I know it's different in anon online spaces, I'm not scared to share my pronouns here, but again it helps normalizing it. /end rant
I think a good idea is having it default to "any pronoun" if a user doesn't pick a pronoun. That way people who are concerned about being anonymous can stay anonymous and every user will have a pronoun flair. Also it takes 5 seconds to set pronouns, and if someone says it makes them more comfortable, I'll do it personally.
Yesterday I was feeling funny about pronouns for this reason you mentioned: I really value being wholly anonymous online. But you have convinced me. I’d hate for my personal uncomfortability with identification to alienate anyone identities in any way. Inshallah I love you all
