https://www.axios.com/2024/10/22/trump-mass-deportation-immigrant-camps
They feel the same about the homeless. Literally every west coast subreddit, ostensibly full of "liberals" will upvote comments like "It would be much cheaper to just house them all in tents in the desert."
Like they want to do fucking Manzanar for homeless people.
The maddening part is that it's still cheaper to put them into houses but that would require you to admit they're human.
"good serfs work for peanuts, otherwise you could end up like The Bad People"
Yeah, it's disturbing to see the uptick in anti-homeless rhetoric. You hear them being called "zombies" and "not people".
And the Democrats, while not in favor of the camps, will gladly support them once the law has been passed
Because that's how government works!
I think they may just feel like "militarized" is problematic. They already don't have a problem with kids in cages, especially after the Biden admin changed the name and painted pretty murals on the facilities.
It's called bipartisanship sweaty maybe if you redfash tankies learned about it you'd build power more successfully
Historically, 79% of Republicans = 100% of Republican senators, and 22% of Democrats = ~80% of Democratic senators, so it sounds like this is on track to get Patriot Act numbers in Congress.
"Almost half of American adult children polled think we should use brown people as slaves and force them to live in cages."
I always love when dems suddenly lose the concept of statistics or the concept of polling.
"Only 27% of the country voted for republicans last election so that means that 73% of the country supports democrats."
Instead they think they have to adjust everything to try and get that 27%
Somewhere on reddit, some dork is arguing that 5,352 people is not a good enough sample size.
it literally isn't a good sample size, especially for their selection process in the breakdown of a place as diverse and varied in peoples and living conditions and environments like the US and its 350 million people. It's a religious-focused NGO for "christian nationalism in politics", has vanishingly few young people, does terrible breakdowns in the full report and tells us nothing about class or income, self-selects for those who are on consistent addresses in USPS lines with internet access who would be arsed to do these surveys (as well as has hundreds of self-selected opt-ins), the report is trash by a non-profit for "finding the intersection of religion and politics for clergy and the public"
No, it's actually an excellent sample size. This study is absolutely worrying because it was conducted well.
https://www.checkmarket.com/sample-size-calculator/
This is a sample size calculator,
Punching in 350M for population size, 2% margin of error, and 95% Confidence interval we get a necessary sample size of at least 2401, this study had a sample size of 5352
As for their margin of error, using the above population and confidence interval values but adding in 5352 for the actual sample size we get a calculated margin of error of 1.34%
This study is valid and its findings should worry everyone.
It's a perfectly good sample size, you're absolutely right, but @anarcho_blinkenist@hexbear.net raises good questions about whether it's an appropriately random sample.
Edit: They use weighting to put things closer to what the general population actually looks like, but here's what their unweighted numbers are:
Show
Okay I see the criticism, but would the more honest title:
approximately 47% of Americans aged 30 and older believe immigrants should be put in militarized camps
really have changed the conclusions and implications?
It's fucking disgusting no matter how you look at it.
I suppose that number might go down to 30% at best if 18-29 year olds were properly sampled.
I agree. Like, we could get the number down by asking the question a different way, too, but ultimately the issue is that ~97% of votes will go to candidates who will increase the power, reach, and budget of ICE and the military.
The millennial demographic is the most disappointing thing about this. How is that this group ISN'T the one that believes overwhelmingly in non negotiable human rights for immigrants?
The main conclusion I got from the survey is that the majority of crackers want to shove their POC neighbors into concentration camps.
It's also in how the question is phrased and so on. They're basically goading people into agreeing with right-wing stuff in these polls.
Here's the actual question and results:
Q30e. Rounding up and deporting immigrants who are in the country illegally, even if it takes setting up encampments guarded by the U.S. military
Strongly favor 22%
Favor 25%
Oppose 28%
Strongly oppose 22%
Skipped/ Refused 3%
and the next question "Which statement comes closest to your view about how the immigration system should deal with immigrants who are currently living in the U.S. illegally? [ROTATE]" shows that over 60% of people say citizenship (56%) or permanent residency (11%)
which also seems to entirely contradict the previous one lol.
Ok I guess I'm a dummy lol. I was more just blowing off steam. I'm having a shitty mental health existence right now. Sorry.
Nope. You're original comment was correct. See my response to anarcho blinkinest
yeah I'm in favor of putting immigrants in militarized camps - the kind where we give them military weapons and military training to defend themselves against the evil KKKracker menace
Well according to
they already have "AK-47 Supers" that not even the US military could get their hands on, so we're already half way there! 
AK-47 Supers
Nvidia needs to cool it with these new GPU names
I thought it would was a new weed strain, a cross between Shaq Diesel Super Mario and AK-47 Purple Nurple Hindu Kush B'Gush, which the locals budtender assures me is really good for personal illumination and clean energy.
"AK-47 Supers"
Where's your god now ammosexuals who
over an ar-15 being called "assault rifle 15"?
for me it's because I love trains and hate driving, and even the most pedestrian-friendly American cities are still car-centric
If I knew how to computer I would spend the rest of the day making office space emojis
Every day I wish there was a place that was willing to take me so I could gtfo of this place
The population of rome eventually emptied out to 1% of it's peak population during the roman empire's long decline. People either died or left. If and when it's possible, leaving is better.
Me, living in the only place within 40 miles of my workplace I can afford.
The "undocumented" part is mostly there as an ass-cover imo. Am I the only one perceiving a growing hostility towards even legal immigrants?
What do you think the push for denaturalization is for? They're not interested in the mask.
The fact that this headline even exists, that it's presented almost casually, is proof that barbarism is the future.
I can understand dems being down with the fascism, but look at my independents dawg.
Most "independents" are "libertarians" and never Trump Republicans so it makes sense
Dems see this and go well we must put more kids in cages then
I've met probably a dozen people who call themselves independent and when you get to know them they are indistinguishable from Maga dudes. I think it's a way for people who don't like being called racist/homophobic/ etc but fully support those policies to distance themselves.
Libs not seeming to realize how far their elected reps are to the right of them will never not be infuriating.
"One party wants to have camps for immigrants and thenother party wants to tax rich people and do universal healthcare."
Oh, fucking really? Why don't you go ahead and point me to the one political party that allegedly supports it.
It's like pot legalization. 80% of dems and 60% of the total population wants it but even fucking new york state won't just legalize it.
Not that pot legalization is in the top 10 biggest concerns but it's a perfect example of how dems instinctively refuse to do even the least controversial wildly popular thing.
this was posted before, it's a 5000 person survey by a non-profit for "finding the intersection of religion in society for clergy and the public" (hence the weird religious breakdown), which they got by just emailing people on a USPS list with a few hundred self-selected opt-ins on top. Which also inherently excludes a bunch of people, like those who've moved a lot or recently, any and all homeless, lumpenized people and people in distant or ad-hoc or delapidated communities with vague USPS lines and addresses, those who don't have internet access, those in prisons, and those who don't check their email, and those who wouldn't be arsed with these kinds of surveys by religion-in-politics non-profits, and countless other groups. Inherently. The study also has no breakdowns for class or income, if they live in rural, urban, or suburban environs, or even generation breakdowns for most of the questions including this one (but does for some others, weirdly); and the 18-29 age group is vanishingly small compared to the others; and just a bunch of god awful things. Which is shocking to be taken at face value, this trash 5000 person "christian nationalism" survey as "percent of Americans" like the survey says. And then you get such god awful trash takes like in this thread of "if only I'd organized harder" absolutely anti-marxist nonsense, nihilist trash.
That comment pissed me off, the whole trend of doomerist opportunism too. this site is so often just a black hole that no one is interested in fighting against and I'm fucking myself up wasting my time trying in the tide of it. It's an active negation of revolutionary consciousness in an environment which needs it cultivated and brought into the real material world. So many people seem near universally more interested in uncritical and angry insular bias-spirals and opportunist defeatism, opportunist self-confirmation of 'nothing to be done' and 'might as well flee' (which shows a petty-bourgeois affordance), and the worst: opportunism-masquerading-as-principle then shit out onto others in a misery-loves-company kind of way, than anything else constructive. Just straight-line-segment-from-the-curve understandings, as fuel for undialectical projections of doomsaying, so do-nothing opportunists can say "SEE?!?!?!" at whatever they think gives them the opportunity and get applause from other do-nothings, which facilitates the furthering the comparative growth of reaction more than the reactionaries are capable of facilitating themselves than if people were interested in constructive active forward-moving analysis of things.
Socialists in the real world (which are exponentially growing in number every month and have been for almost a decade) I've worked with don't talk like people here, by and large engage more healthily about problems in society, and are more interested in engaging critically along lines of where the problems are and aren't in given things, and working the angles to separate them along dividing lines. This site is 75+% online ultra-leftism wearing the mask of something else. There are people who have been being tortured in US prisons for decades for their activism who have more revolutionary spirit, optimism, fluidity, criticality, and desire for and KNOWLEDGE OF whole-inclusive revolutionary change, and active political consciousness and preparedness to fight by it than the metaphysical one-sided self-satisfied petty-bourgeois-oriented shit I see here.
"iF oNlY i HaD oRgAniZeD mOrE~" People who say this shit are do-nothings. People who support and further it are do-nothings, thinking the people who turned out in the Floyd uprisings, the ever-growing militant labor and tenant movements, and even students occupying colleges at the cost of their petty bourgeois futures over Palestine (A THING WHICH DOESN'T DIRECTLY EFFECT THEM, compared to Vietnam protests where they were being DRAFTED --- a MARK OF ELEVATED CONSCIOUSNESS) are nothing compared to these 5000 home-owners (or otherwise long-term tenants) who decide to partake in a shitty religious email survey? Because, and not just from this, that's what I get and what I hear, more than I get or hear anything else on this site. I wonder, where have these people been this past 10 years, if they have not been on the street seeing what I've seen in just my small part of it? They seem to be seeing less than comrades writing from inside prison walls somehow.
Yes the US, particularly in its bourgeois and petty bourgeois, is largely reactionary, we know this (without this trash 'American Academy of Religion' member survey which should be thrown in the trash); particularly in the ongoing historical inheritance of colonial relations, and that this is an avenue where false-consciousness gets pushed when alternatives are not posited and constructed due to these historical relations and its inherited contradictions. But Christ. I've seen more things and comments on this site, whose only purpose and only constructed framing is to uncritically reinforce insular and doomsaying biases as dead-end metaphysical 'truths', to spiral people into do-nothing emptiness and defeatism before any battle has even been fought by ANY of the people saying these things; than I've seen constructive forward-moving dialectical considerations. I've seen more attempts by do-nothings to self-indulgently self-satisfyingly panic-monger and doomsay about their imagined reality "out there" where they do not stand or in some dreamed-up future, to inflame destructive and opportunist impulses in people to make more do-nothings (or worse), than positive construction toward anything --- or even serious Marxist criticality toward circumstances or material put forward, as long as it confirms OPPORTUNIST, ULTRA-LEFT BIASES and helps people feel like their do-nothingism is somehow 'principled analysis' and they can feel self-satisfied in saying so. Which is effectively reactionary, discouraging socialists of the possibility and reality of change being built, and passing it off as 'principled analysis' based on one's own shallow and actively-sought bias-confirmation as a metaphysical truth, rather than developing working and critical dialectical consideration in one's analysis of material circumstances and events, their internal components, and relations to other circumstances and events as a whole living reality and unfolding history in which we are all partaking in in the ways we do.
The flight of some people from the underground could have been the result of their fatigue and dispiritedness. Such individuals may only be pitied; they should be helped because their dispiritedness will pass and there will again appear an urge to get away from philistinism, away from the liberals and the liberal-labour policy, to the working-class underground. But when the fatigued and dispirited use journalism as their platform and announce that their flight is not a manifestation of fatigue, or weakness, or intellectual woolliness, but that it is to their credit, and then put the blame on the “ineffective,” “worthless,” “moribund,” etc., underground, these runaways then become disgusting renegades, apostates. These runaways then become the worst advisers for the working-class movement and therefore its dangerous enemies.
Log off and join an org
I very much agree with the sentiment, and have been considering my own effortposting about it. The doomerism here is unbearable at times, and content is frequently actually warped just to seem worse than it is for the sake of having something to be angry at. Even when I make positive posts the top comment will immediately "but actually it's bad because X".
it was a sarcastic comment I made, but I agree it was trash and I deleted it soon after making it.
can we see the over all breakdown not by made up American political groups media outlets always categorize people into. The only reason to split it by political party is to make right-wingers seem more important or popular than they actually are.
This is all they give us other than party affiliation and religion:
The vast majority of Americans who most trust far-right news (91%) or Fox News (82%) favor militarized encampments for undocumented immigrants, compared with 44% of Americans who do not watch TV news and 36% who most trust mainstream TV news.
The whole framing of the survey is explicitly fascist lol. Or at least trying to find out how many people are fascists.
While most Americans express concern about the economic burdens immigrants place on communities [CITATION NEEDED], fewer Americans believe that immigrants increase crime rates in local communities or believe immigrants are invading or poisoning the blood of our country.
Nearly six in ten Americans (57%) say the growing number of newcomers from other countries burdens local communities by using more than their share of social services, including 86% of Republicans, 57% of independents, and 36% of Democrats.
[Okay, what was the actual question asked here, because I notice they included "using more than their share of social services". Was that a clear part of the question, or are they trying to pretend that Americans are hostile towards immigrants?]Around four in ten Americans (43%) say that immigrants increase crime rates in local communities; Republicans are more than four times as likely as Democrats to agree (73% vs. 17%).
While few Americans (35%) agree that “immigrants are invading our country and replacing our cultural and ethnic background,” this view is held by 65% of Republicans, as well as most viewers of far-right news (83%) and Fox News viewers (66%).
White evangelical Protestants (62%) are the only religious group among whom a majority agree that immigrants are invading our country and replacing our cultural and ethnic background.
One-third of Americans (34%) say that immigrants entering the country illegally today are “poisoning the blood of our country,” including six in ten Republicans (61%), 30% of independents, and only 13% of Democrats. White evangelical Protestants (60%) are the only religious group among whom a majority agree that immigrants entering the country illegally are poisoning the blood of the country.
Americans are divided on whether they favor (47%) or oppose (50%) rounding up and deporting immigrants who are in the country illegally, even if it takes setting up encampments guarded by the U.S. military. Nearly eight in ten Republicans (79%) favor putting undocumented immigrants in encampments, compared with 47% of independents and 22% of Democrats.
These surveys are such nonsense. And lol at literally asking people if immigrants are "poisoning the blood of our country". I also really want to see the literal questions they're asking and in what order.
It's like they're basically trying to goad Americans into saying right-wing stuff about immigrants. There is nothing in here about any positive impact immigrants have. There is nothing that gives the opposite narrative, despite the fact that the people with right-wing opinions are objectively in the minority of all of their questions. Of course a lot of the results are shaped by media propaganda and poll results like this so it isn't to say that it isn't gross that so many people would respond this way. But I'm still extremely skeptical.
and give up our reserve army of labor? how will we keep wages down?
militarized camps
holding facilities
