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  • anthm17 [he/him]
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    4 years ago

    It's basically the opinion of the chinese government.

    Dress up capitalism with fancy words and pretend it isn't nearly unfettered wealth extraction from your populace.

      • anthm17 [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        Completely applicable and completely fair. Continue simping for Jack Ma you lib.

          • anthm17 [he/him]
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            4 years ago

            God damn right I'll shit on fake socialists and dictators.

            • lilpissbaby [any]
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              4 years ago

              you do realize that you're the type of "leftist" who would've denounced the USSR and sided with the US over it?

        • volkvulture [none/use name]
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          4 years ago

          https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/22/asia/china-ren-zhiqiang-xi-jinping-intl-hnk/index.html this guy was corrupt af and got owned just this year LOL

          https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-china-31310325 this guy was similarly involved in corruption scandal and international intrigue/organize crime... got owned

          https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/1502808/Tycoon-paid-3-bn-for-stay-of-execution.html and this shit is just sad LOL... another billionaire OWNED

          Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about, Chinese billionaires are kept coloring within the lines & many have been executed for their very serious corruption & dealings with the black market & mafia

          You're a lib if you think that jailing a billionaire for 18 years for his fucking slimy corruption is the same as Western capitalism & "liberal democracy" giving Jeffrey Epstein a fucking plea deal

          laughable

          • anthm17 [he/him]
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            4 years ago

            You’re a lib if you think that jailing a billionaire for 18 years for his fucking slimy corruption is the same as Western capitalism & “liberal democracy” giving Jeffrey Epstein a fucking plea deal

            What am I if I point out that they were fine with his exploitation of the workers and only went after him after he critized Xi?

              • anthm17 [he/him]
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                4 years ago

                That's racist just like a liberal too.

                Weird how I'm talking about billionaires and leadership and you just keep yelling at me for being white and referencing "yellow hordes".

                  • anthm17 [he/him]
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                    4 years ago

                    when attempting to influence the government away from socialism (4 Cardinal principles) is literally the most common grounds for said government expropriating your wealth and corporations.

                    Damn and all the billionaires get out that is a free hand to extract immense value from the population.

                    Fucking great form of socialism.

                      • wtypstanaccount04 [he/him]
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                        4 years ago

                        You are arguing in bad faith at this point. You need to shut the fuck up and log off. Come back when you are willing to actually say something of purpose.

                      • anthm17 [he/him]
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                        4 years ago

                        If you want to settle for better for now capitalism go right ahead.

                        Don’t whine when trying to keep pet capitalists bites you in the ass.

                          • anthm17 [he/him]
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                            4 years ago

                            uh huh.

                            China is capitalist now and will only get more capitalist over time. It's a corrosive force.

                            • SheetsOfLenin [he/him]
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                              4 years ago

                              Imagine posting an uninformed opinion on a site of 10,000 about a country of 1 and a half billion. There are many transcripts straight from the horse's mouth that talk about this exact shit ya know

                              • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                4 years ago

                                There are many transcripts straight from the horse’s mouth that talk about this exact shit ya know

                                See I'm gonna try to avoid mentioning guys like Zenz, and keep as open a mind as I can given the situation.

                                But you cannot seriously expect me to take state published documents seriously?

                  • anthm17 [he/him]
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                    4 years ago

                    https://www.nst.com.my/world/world/2020/10/633787/chinas-super-rich-got-15-trillion-richer-during-pandemic OK Capitalist.

                      • anthm17 [he/him]
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                        4 years ago

                        Long explanation

                        you called me a racist and a brocialist.

                        That's an explanation like state capitalism is socialism.

            • volkvulture [none/use name]
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              4 years ago

              no one's invented the "communism" button yet, and Marx himself just critiqued capitalism... if only to reveal contradictions that must be addressed and utilized in a less exploitative & socially deleterious manner

              "productive forces" have to be utilized and improved and turned toward social ends. firms have to be organized & workers have to be engaged in production

              if you don't think the "mass line" & nationalization of large industries just this year are tantamount to an actual full-on display of the power of "labor theory of value", you're losing the thread imo

              https://www.ft.com/content/22108ddd-3280-4013-bcd8-1adc9e6ae13d PRC just reported 4.9% growth yesterday, their consumer spending is returning. And yet, we will only see losses in any other major capitalist country. India shrank something like 30% in the 2nd quarter, that's devastating.

              China still leads the world in manufacturing output, the raw numbers of comparative global economic activity & dynamism make this clear

                • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                  4 years ago

                  i'm just not going to try to blame the CPC for the West's failure to socially address economic issues

                  Did PRC socially address this year's economic downturn or nah?

                  • anthm17 [he/him]
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                    4 years ago

                    So that's a yes.

                    Screw off capitalist.

                    • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                      4 years ago

                      anti-capitalism is easy, but how would you suggest one build a civilization without first examining and utilizing the tools we have?

                      western liberal democracy created catastrophic horrifying nuclear weapons technology using state capitalism, does that mean USSR and communists should've planted flowers in missile silos?

                      material circumstances require tempered material responses, not wishful thinking & ... what else are you suggesting again?

                      i didn't say that Deng Xiaoping was right, I said that CPC is doing the thing right now to weather this year's material circumstances using anti-capitalist measures

                      but again

                      state capitalism and this discussion we're having right now is literally the primary stage of socialism

                      • anthm17 [he/him]
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                        4 years ago

                        state capitalism and this discussion we’re having right now is literally the primary stage of socialism

                        If you're a lying piece of shit who wants to betray a revolution it also works really well. I don't know which Deng Xiaoping was, most likely the former, but his shortcut means China is capitalist now.

                          • anthm17 [he/him]
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                            4 years ago

                            Which stage is this?

                            https://www.nst.com.my/world/world/2020/10/633787/chinas-super-rich-got-15-trillion-richer-during-pandemic

                            • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                              4 years ago

                              This is the Kuala Lumpur paper? Lol, I wonder if they have an ideological bias or have ever been involved in political bias scandals

                              At any rate, here's what that article says about PRC "the country is on track to become the only major economy to expand this year, according to the International Monetary Fund.... The urban jobless rate inched down to 5.4 percent in September"

                              I wonder what the US' jobless rate is atm.

                              Basically all I am seeing is that the communists are better at developing past the conventions of capitalism, especially considering how no other capitalist economy is doing so hot...

                              or maybe the Chinese billionaires were just creating racism in America, and that's where all that money went

                              https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/economist-found-2416-trillion-when-she-tallied-cost-of-racial-bias/ar-BB1acPA7

                              • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                4 years ago

                                Maybe black people they just need reeducation and forced relocation to where better jobs are.

                                • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                  4 years ago

                                  are you saying that something like a PRC-style developmental outreach initiative would definitely work within areas of the US where poverty and systemic legally codified racism & capitalism have left centuries of scars? that's actually not that bad of an idea, though I disagree with your cynical & lib characterization. really reaching

                                  • FailsonSimulator2020 [any]
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                                    4 years ago

                                    It’s more like using the government to scoop up specifically Q Anon/ facsist brainwormed people and giving them education and bringing them out of impoverished rural towns to places with better wages and working more productively with the same effort because of developed labor skills. We would definitely hate that and call it “cultural genocide” 🙄

                                    • ComradeMikey [he/him]
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                                      4 years ago

                                      white people have no culture lmao take all the white supramcists improve their lives and educate them sounds great

                                    • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                      4 years ago

                                      Except in this case the "q-anon" people happen to compose an ethnic minority.

                                    • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                      4 years ago

                                      where you compare PRC's actual outreach and socioeconomic development to USA who has literally waged racist and genocidal campaigns against both Black & Indigenous

                                      not to mention the ACTUAL comparison to be made which is America's Global War on Terror... lol

                                      you have nothing

                                      • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                        4 years ago

                                        who has literally waged racist and genocidal campaigns against both Black & Indigenous

                                        Canada did too.

                                        Infamously via forced education.

                                        you have nothing

                                        All you have is weird whataboutism where you pretend that I support any of those things.

                                        • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                          4 years ago

                                          every advanced country on Earth has some form of mandatory schooling lol... what are you talking about?

                                          adult education & deradicalization is only bad if the PRC does it? but the fact that the One Child Policy only applies to Han families in Xinjiang means that cultural genocide is occurring? what are you talking about?

                                          • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                            4 years ago

                                            deradicalization

                                            What percentage of Uyghurs does the Chinese government consider radicalized?

                                            • SheetsOfLenin [he/him]
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                                              4 years ago

                                              Regular massive terror attacks in one's country tend to be a sign action is necessary. I'm sure the Chinese imams who support such programs are just puppets, and education is just a ploy by the devious Asiatics of course

                                              • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                                4 years ago

                                                Does this trust of the state extend to things like the Patriot act?

                                                • SheetsOfLenin [he/him]
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                                                  4 years ago

                                                  Are you a fucking anarchist lmao? The fact that you'd ask for me to spell out the difference is childish and almost certainly in bad faith.

                                                  'State do thing? Oh really? Have you heard of other state that do other thing'

                                                  You're wasting everyone's time

                                                  • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                                    4 years ago

                                                    I don't trust broad counter-terror programs, sorry.

                                          • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                            4 years ago

                                            every advanced country on Earth has some form of mandatory schooling lol… what are you talking about?

                                            I'm talking about how attempting to forcibly erase a culture is a crime against humanity.

                                            • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                              4 years ago

                                              any actual proof such things have occurred, or just rabid anti-communist speculation & sensationalism?

                                              • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                                4 years ago

                                                You wouldn't accept proof because you're a zealot.

                                                  • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                                    4 years ago

                                                    Adrian Zenz

                                                    He's not a zealot he's a crank :p

                                                    Massive gulf between believe the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation and being completely uncritical of China's actions.

                                                    • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                                      4 years ago

                                                      No, Adrian Zenz is literally a zealot

                                                      he said that Jews have to accept Christ to be allowed into heaven. Zenz also said that he was sent to Earth by God to destroy Communism. Is that what you want too?

                                                        • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                                          4 years ago

                                                          wait, did requiring engravings of knives purchased in these areas start before or after the fundamentalist sectarianism?

                                                          Hui Muslims also do not completely escape this terrifying inculcation. Which isn’t to say it’s some inherent feature of Islam, obviously not if these groups have co-existed for so long, but we can’t ignore the extent to which a recent narrative of “cultural genocide” gets slathered on these stories.

                                                          Hui Muslims are socio-linguistically & historically of Chinese descent. And they are also known to have Salafist & extreme sectarian groups moving in and out of these areas in Xinjiang. Hui muslims have been implicated in Heroin rings & moving those drugs to those Uyghur areas.

                                                          To what extent is Daesh and its outgrowths an encouragement for these groups elsewhere & why was the reporter A. Vltchek found dead under suspicious circumstances in Turkey?

                                                          Is this global nexus of oil money & militant funding & state surveillance not just a way to encircle China from Central Asia?

                                                          • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                                            4 years ago

                                                            Hui Muslims are socio-linguistically & historically of Chinese descent. And they are also known to have Salafist & extreme sectarian groups moving in and out of these areas in Xinjiang. Hui muslims have been implicated in Heroin rings & moving those drugs to those Uyghur areas.

                                                            Well damn, better do some collective punishment then.

                                                            • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                                              4 years ago

                                                              No, that's the thing, Hui muslims are also involved in criminal actions and stoking seditionist sentiment

                                                              You want Daesh in PRC? pretty weird ngl

                                                              • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                                                4 years ago

                                                                You want Daesh in PRC? pretty weird ngl

                                                                Yes, and I want it here too obviously. That's why I'm not demanding Ilhan Omar be sent to a camp.

                                                                I just love terrorism.

                                                                • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                                                  4 years ago

                                                                  education & economic development are not law enforcement issues in the same way as the United States’ War on Drugs & racist for-profit prison industry.

                                                                  you can parse the lasting social benefits & fundamental uplifting aim of one over the other, i am sure of this.

                                                                  https://www.sbs.com.au/news/china-releases-video-of-uighur-musician-disputing-reported-death

                                                                  the way news & sensationalism & outright lies blend so perfectly into jingoism can’t be ignored. none of us are immune to propaganda, but I think we can comb through most of these claims about PRC and find very little real or irrefutable evidence.

                                                                  • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                                                    4 years ago

                                                                    education & economic development are not law enforcement issues in the same way as the United States’ War on Drugs & racist for-profit prison industry.

                                                                    Except you just implied it's part of counter-terror efforts.

                                                                    • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                                                      4 years ago

                                                                      yes, people who have access to gainful employment and are able to socially advance within society are far less likely to become violent seditionists, wouldn't you agree?

                                                                      poverty is endemic to these regions, but the knife attacks coincide with the rise of CIA backed fundamentalist Salafism.

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                                                                        yes, people who have access to gainful employment and are able to socially advance within society are far less likely to become violent seditionists

                                                                        Sure.

                                                                        Now do it while respecting human rights.

                                                                        • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                                                          yes, giving people gainful employment and education and opportunities for advancement is literally guaranteeing autonomy & self-reliance & engendering human rights

                                                                          • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                                                            4 years ago

                                                                            Giving?

                                                                            So these are all volunteers?

                                                                            • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                                                              4 years ago

                                                                              Yes

                                                                              "According to the official Chinese version, during the past three years voluntary education has been imparted to the Muslim population of Xinjiang so that their extremist tendencies may be rectified."

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                                                                                4 years ago

                                                                                According to the official Chinese version

                                                                                According to the state the state didn't do bad things.

                                                                                You can always trust the state.

                                                                                • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                                                                  4 years ago

                                                                                  Well, you posted New Strait Times... so you must trust them, right?

                                                                                  https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2019/08/512399/uyghurs-freely-join-re-education-camps

                                                                                  • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                                                                    4 years ago

                                                                                    hmm https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/24/china-cables-leak-no-escapes-reality-china-uighur-prison-camp

                                                                                    • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                                                                      4 years ago

                                                                                      weird, that article you sent says

                                                                                      “The purpose [of the camp network] was to try to indoctrinate and change an entire population by channeling them through this dedicated system,” said Adrian Zenz, a leading researcher into the Xinjiang internment camps, who is senior fellow in China studies at the victims of communism foundation"

                                                                                      So you take that Guardian's interpretation of Zenz' lies as fact huh?

                                                                                      • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                                                                        No, but it's hard to find a publication that put out the leaks without referencing that anti-communist wacko.

                                                                                        Doesn't change the contents of the leaks.

                                                                                        • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                                                                          4 years ago

                                                                                          yes, if these speculations contain positive references to Zenz in any way, then they are suspect

                                                                                          • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                                                                            4 years ago

                                                                                            The news is the leaks not the biased presentation.

                                                                                            • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                                                                              4 years ago

                                                                                              Have you seen the provenance of these supposed "leaks"? Because, without actual verification of that information, it's just badly written Chinese script on paper.

                                                                                              Have you seen actual footage inside the schools?

                                                                                              Have you seen any physical evidence to suggest that people are being abused or culturally genocided or killed by PRC?

                                                                                              Because I don't think you've seen anything of that nature, you just take Adrian Zenz' sensationalism & anti-communism as unquestionable

                                                                • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                                                  4 years ago

                                                                  and yes, US has racist extrajudicial Muslim torture camps LOL... I wonder wtf you're actually standing up for here?

                                                                  • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                                                    4 years ago

                                                                    Obviously we just need more of that.

                                                                    I wonder wtf you’re actually standing up for here?

                                                                    Does it help to point that I'm

                                                                    1. not a nationalist
                                                                    2. not even an American, I just live here.

                                                                    In other words I'm not standing up for anything except people I think deserve it.

                                                                    • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                                                      4 years ago

                                                                      sounds like you just need cope because USA is melting down and PRC is actually holding together and improving the lot of their people using ideologies & economic models that defy Western imperialism

                                                                      you can try and harp on unsupported & biased Western propaganda on PRC. I will wait for actual evidence

                                                    • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                                      https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1160094.shtml this is from last year & seems to indicate things are improving from the perspective of government openness & goodwill

                                                      https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47191952 this is also from last year and maybe passes the sniff-test for you here for “East vs. West media bias” maybe not idgaf

                                                      https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/china-muslims-work-change-perceptions-after-knife-attacks this is VOA, so it’s definitely tripe, but even it still was giving somewhat of an even-handed & in-depth perspective on the issues at play here in the Obama era

                                                      https://thediplomat.com/2014/10/chinese-salafism-and-the-saudi-connection/ this too gives nuance and offers wider connections to the general state of Islam globally. But it leaves out key connections between the “openness” reforms of Deng’s era & how these have always led to potentially dangerous Western & even extreme theocratic influences into the country