How many muslim countries can you count on the side that cry about a genocide in Xinjiang?
There we go https://i.imgur.com/8h4ZDJa.png
Can someone post that to a map subreddit i want to see what the shitlibs think
Not strictly related to the Xinjiang situation, bug I also like this infographic:
https://i.redd.it/253kcpa6mk951.jpg
I think your point here is that we can't trust the narrative of international blocs because they will use propaganda to frame facts in ways intended to protect their interests. I couldn't agree more, and I don't trust the West at all to provide an accurate account of whatever is or isn't happening in Xinjiang.
But that same idea of the inherent untrustworthiness of bloc-promoted narratives makes me suspicious of the narrative offered by China and its diplomatic allies that nothing is going on at all. A non-NATO bloc is still a bloc. It is not somehow transformed into a pure entity free of bias or self-interest. I don't trust this bloc to be objective or accurate in its characterization of events either.
According to China itself stuff is "going on." There is mass internment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang, ostensibly for purposes of de-radicalization and integration into the Chinese economy. Is China detaining millions of Uyghurs like the West is claiming? No, of course not. Are they killing them like the holocaust? Not even slightly—they leave the camps in jobs programs and such. But to pretend nothing is going on at all is disingenuous. There is a case to be made that perhaps the Chinese state is being a bit overzealous with its radicalization efforts, and could be going about them in a more targeted way that doesn't have to involve mass re-education camps, but it's hard to make that sort of argument without Western imperialists from jumping on any criticism as proof of "genocide." That's why a scenario like this is tough.
Likewise, most of the bloc in this image don't give a shit about human rights or anything, just like the West. Governments in general, as they're almost all run by neoliberal ghouls, aren't in that kind of headspace. Instead, they're siding with China because they know which way the wind is blowing.
Sounds like china is doing their own version of the Native boarding schools, I mean Uighurs coming out of these detention centers all talk about how they are forced to lose their culture and religion in these places. That would make it a cultural genocide especially since china admits they just snatch up people for the crime of being Uighur and nothing more
Yeah, I fear that there's a similar dynamic here. Many of the Uyghurs fell under the Wahhabist spell of radical Islam, and that kind of ideology doesn't mix well with a communist state. Likewise, China is heavily pursuing its poverty alleviation deadlines, and pushing the Uyghurs to become more integrated into the Chinese economy helps tremendously with that effort. Hence the job programs, subsidies, etc. Also, Xinjiang is central to the Belt and Road Initiative, and will become something like an economic pivot in the coming decades, so China wants to shore up control and dominance of the region to ensure smooth sailing.
That said, I don't think it's going so far as Native boarding schools like Canada and the United States. Unlike these settler colonial states, in China they're building more mosques, exempting the Uyghurs from the one child policy to encourage population growth, and generally encouraging Uyghur culture to develop, granted within the bounds set by the Chinese state. There's always a tough line to toe when dealing with "regressive" cultures in a progressive state, and China is running straight into those troubles. I don't know if they're handling it perfectly (and the CPC has always been a bit heavy handed when it comes to things like this), but they're certainly not handling it like the largest genocide in recent memory as the US and Canada did.
US lied about the Gulf Of tonkin
Lied about "200,000 dead in mass graves " in Yugoslavia
Lied about Wmds
Lied about "Gadaffi handing viagra out to soldiers to rape"
Lied about Syrian "chemical weapons" and fired the original Opcw investigator then doctored the report to be the complete opposite of what the opcw investigation originally concluded
When has China, in the last 40 years, made ridiculous atrocity propaganda to go to war?
All true, and to be honest I have no idea if China has ever used that kind of atrocity propaganda. We can definitely agree that the American narrative is inaccurate and inflammatory.
That wasn't my point, though. I'm not saying that America is correct. I'm saying that we can't trust China's official line because states and political blocs are inherently untrustworthy and will promote narratives that are self-serving. China and its allies are no more immune to that than any other political entity.
Have a look at the ones on the ‘China’ side. Saudi Arabia isn’t exactly a close ally.
Who are you willing to trust then if you're writing off anything coming from a 'bloc'
For one, things in my own community that I can go out and verify for myself. NATO can provide an official line about how wonderful and free things are here in America, but you don't have to go far out of your backyard to see how bullshit that narrative is.
For another, things that multiple blocs that are ordinarily enemies provide the same narrative for. Back in the day, if NATO and the USSR both claimed we were being invaded by aliens, I would have taken that more seriously than if it was just one party or the other.
Famed human rights respecters: Saudi Arabia, Russia, South Sudan, Qatar , Belarus
Do you really think any of the countries on the right OR left give a shit about the global muslim population? No they don’t. The ones on the right have geopolitical and economic ties to china and the ones on the left have geopolitical and economic ties to NATO and the west. I mean come on, do you really think Somalia, Angola or South Sudan have some really nuanced opinions about Uighur oppression by China? No they don’t. These countries have important economic ties to China that they would like the keep in tact. Same goes with the ones on the left.
You can come up with better arguments for and against the alleged oppression on Uighurs than “look at all the le epic anti imperialist countries that back China!!!”
NATO countries hold the collective death rate (just off the top of my head)
25 million starving Yemenis after they've blockaded and starved that country in recent years
1 million dead Aghanis
500,000 dead Iraqi children in 1990s to which Madelaine Albright said "it was worth it"
At least 200,000 Libyans in the civil war there and every life that died in the MED trying to escape that civil war started by NATO
140,000 dead in Yugoslavia
That's all I can be arsed with and I've not even done a google on Syrian dead yet.
My point is most of the countries on the right side have a much better human rights record than any NATO country and if they were to have any hope of catching up to the death toll of the US-EU-Aus axis they'd have to kill literally millions of people
Like to compare Russias human rights record to NATO is a joke - in pure body count of whos' 6 feet under the West holds that title as King
Very interesting to use Yemen as a counter-exemple where a person is shittalking Saudi Arabia.
Very interesting to think I care about defending Saudi Arabia
Sure they're the principle actors in Yemen - but that's only as a proxy for US and UK
Without US and UK airsupport Saudis war in Yemen would shut down overnight
Saudi is little more than an attack dog for US and Uk
When I saw that image, I immediately thought of this image of the walled world https://imgur.com/6O571P3 I think it tracks a little more closely than the NATO map does.
The premise of that image is sound, but goddamn is it poorly sourced and made.
The Fence
ok
In extremely PooPoo Piker voice
"I don't know what to tell you, if you think muslim world leaders care about muslims ur a fkin moron."
Edit: How dare you downvote me, the original Dengist/Titoist around here.
To me this just shows that the whole issue has just become an international politics talking point, and that people like most of us who have several degrees of separation from any primary information sources are only going to be able to, at best, scratch the surface of the propaganda, counter-propaganda, and counter-counter-propaganda. Maybe this is a lazy take but I embrace that I'm lazy about things that I have literally no power to influence.
I mean ok cuban amd venezuelan support may be telling but otherwise African countries are simply on good economic terms with China and opinions of countries like Saudi Arabia, Phillipines and Russia on human right issues are fucking removed
I get it: third world countries are run by dumb-dumb noodleheads who only do things for money and they have no autonomy
In the real world loads of those countries sent diplomats to visit the educational facilities and approved of them
EU started whining so China offered them to visit which they refused to take up
https://news.yahoo.com/china-says-eu-observers-free-094756928.html
This is all the while that US-EU axis were starving 24 million Yemenis by the most disgusting blockade since Iraq in the 90s
But sure.... Tell me again how the West is a bastion of human rights
https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/yemens-humanitarian-crisis/24/
Do you have an article about diplomats going? I've been trying to Google it, but it's returning western propo and images of President Xi as winnie the pooh.
I saw like one article in Time, but it's pretty scant.
Thanks, comrade. It's hard for me to find anything but weird American interest pieces on China.
third world countries are run by dumb-dumb noodleheads who only do things for money and they have no autonomy
To be fair and balanced, the IMF and CIA have tried very hard to make that true
Opinions of every Nato country on human rights can go right into trashcan after couple of decades of warmongering and bombing. They all give zero fucks about human rights.
Like Hitler announcing that he's very concerned about the rights of Jews in the Soviet Union.
but otherwise African countries are simply on good economic terms with China
That's what saying nothing at all is for, abstain. There is no need to be vocal. Nobody asked any of them to be vocal, they did so of their own accord. Nobody is holding anything against the 100+ other countries that said nothing at all.
Uzbekistan are also defending China. Uzbek and Uyghur are almost mutually intelligible languages, and they're very similar culturally.
