I’m in a small-ish org. There are about 60 members total, but only 10 are actually active in any way. There are another 15-20 or so who are semi-regulars, or who will sometimes attend meetings, or sometimes attend demonstrations or actions etc with us.
It’s gotten really bad over the past few years as people have sort of started fading away. People are flaky, and it routinely takes several weeks to get an answer or an update from some members for even trivial things.
Several of us have tried doing social activities of all kinds, but they always end up the same.
This gets really embarrassing when we try to do things with other groups and can’t muster the numbers to be effective.
We’ve tried to do outreach to members to see what’s going on, and we just get the same explanation - I’m busy.
Has anyone here faced something similar? Any tips to get us out of this rut?
Anyone else in a dying org?
I am a United States citizen.
Those three bullet points are all really good advice.
Setting goals for projects which are designed to be surpassed, rather than stretch goals which often end up feeling like failures
I could go on and on about this for ages. It's such a problem with the Western left. I have to hold back my opinions because some of them are criticism of subjects that are important to a lot of people, but so often, goals and messaging of the Western left run so far ahead of our ability to actually accomplish them that we might as well be discussing what the replicator menu will be when we build the USS Enterprise. You end up not hitting your unrealistic goals, which burns out your members and makes your reputation a group of assholes that can deliver on your promises.
I also agree that the left needs to start trying to pay more attention to generating social events/social spaces. I have been wondering if the Labour Hall concept, complete with alcohol and social activities, is a path that would be beneficial for American socialists to go down.
The point about rituals and traditions is also very good. It seems a lot of leftists don't understand that part of why churches/religious groups still have a lot of popularity in the US, relatively speaking, is that people enjoy the sense of both individual and communal ritual. There is an extent to which we need to find a way to replicate what churches offer their members not only to attract new people, but also to eventually replace the churches.
EDIT - Two more points I'm thinking of
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Trots have a point about entryism. It's often a good idea for members to get involved in a broader organization that isn't socialist but is maybe somewhere you could find other socialists. Don't try to take it over and turn it into a socialist group, though. Use it as a way to get your name out there, find fellow travelers, and show outsiders that you are reliable and can get shit done.
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True Anon Rule: Be Normal
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My old org managed to turn this trend around. Elected fresh leadership, new policy platform to get people excited. We took the lead in organizing a few local protests and were really picking up new members for a while.
Then the whole thing got dismantled by an undercover FBI agent who had been on the leadership committee since before I even joined. Quantico must have decided that these commies were getting too ambitious and decided shut us down before it became more difficult to do so. And that was basically the end of that.
So I guess my advice is purge anyone you think might be a cop first before you reform your org. I honestly probably wouldn't join another org that doesn't vet full members for infiltrators. The FBI threat is very much still real in the United States.
I also wrote a fed hunting post for someone who asked for tips on the subreddit a while ago. Despite the best effort of our favorite Atlantic council alumni on
, I saved it. It's only based on my own personal experience and is years old but it might be useful if anyone has suspicions and want to start asking questions.How to Spot an Undercover Fed
What kind of ties to they have to the community? Do they own a house, rent, stay with someone else? A fed in my org lived with another member as a roommate so he could just easily split once his (successful) op was done. Long standing ties to the community are something difficult for a fed to have, have they been living here a long time or just moved? (from Northern Virginia presumably) Other friends in town, family? Do they have a life outside your org or does this seem like all they do?
What’s their job, or what do they say it is? Do they ever talk about this job, what are they doing all day when they aren’t here? Maybe even consider quietly checking if they indeed actually work there somehow. I do not think that is unwarranted when organizing in the American Empire. If they are a fed, they might have set them up with a ‘fake job’ but more likely that infiltrating your org is all they do for money. Don't take things too far and get arrested for stalking or something though, or if you do- don't get caught and blame me.
Speaking of money, how much do they have? Are they being particularly generous to the org? Our fed donated thousands of dollars to appear as a loyal and ardent member, but of course that was all fed money. Ironically communist orgs get blinded by big donations because they're usually so strapped for cash. Donations are great but they are not a quality for leadership in any way.
Is this person in a leadership position? Feds often are, since it detracts from suspicion and gives them authority. How knowledgeable is this person, does it sound like they were literally taking classes on Marxism? (at an FBI training facility for instance) The fed in my org was probably the most knowledgeable person on leftist history and theory and shit. I could pull insanely online history arguments out of my ass and they would know about them.
Dig into their past a little. Usually people aren’t radio silent anymore on the internet, but if they have a fake name you probably won’t find anything. Ask if you can add them on instagram or something, a fed might not have one to give you. That is a little suspicious, especially for young folks.
Trust your gut feeling. My fed had a little fucking notebook they were always writing in which seemed suspicious as hell to me but I never said shit because I was a newer guy. Also it doesn’t matter that they are transgender or gay or whatever, the FBI has plenty of 'progressive' agents in their ranks or can just as easily give someone an alternative persona for the mission. Counterintelligence must treat everyone equally. For the meantime try to sideline this person from decision making until you can confirm or disprove your suspicions. Maybe talk to some others who can be secretive, you don’t want to alert the weasel. Then you can work together to expel them from the org.
That should give you enough to start investigating. I do not think you can be too paranoid about infiltration in the United States. It’s one of the FBI's most effective and most employed way of taking down political organizations. They killed both the Communist Party USA and a bunch of radical Klans with infiltrators back in 60s, which were both pretty resilient orgs. And we all know what they did to the Black Panthers and other civil rights orgs. Your humble org will not stand a chance if you catch the feds' attention and you do not have good opsec and counterintelligence practices.
Then the whole thing got dismantled by an undercover FBI agent who had been on the leadership committee since before I even joined. Quantico must have decided that these commies were getting too ambitious and decided shut us down before it became more difficult to do so. And that was basically the end of that.
I mean, like actually or was it just some asshole that acted like one. I can't imagine them doing a dramatic face-heel-turn reveal where they decided they wanted everyone to know that they were FBI.
I'm about 80% sure they were an actual fed. You're right that they obviously didn't come down and show me and everyone else their badge so I can't say confirmed. But in retrospect I noticed many different clues that have since given me strong suspicions.
Probably the biggest ones were the fact they had no local connections besides other people in the org and suddenly moved out of town "for work" about a week before the org was dismantled. I don't want to give too many details for opsec but they basically got rid of all their lefty stuff, sent the whole org a message that they were moving across the country, then disappeared despite having a major leadership role in the org. They also gave the org tens of thousands of dollars over the years, so it would be quite an investment for just an asshole. Plus they always were taking notes, wanted to be sure we always recorded our meetings (and posted them online "for publicity"). They did all the new member interviews and I shudder to think how much information they collected over the years in that notebook of theirs.
Also probably the biggest thing was the fact that this person was one of the most consistently available and competent members we had. It's no wonder they became a leader because they were always involving themselves in everything and even doing a good job as well. They were knowledgeable, inclusive, got along well socially with everyone. They didn't act like an asshole at all honestly. But now I think that was suspicious in itself; organizing in this country is hard, its normal for people to get busy or get stressed. But they were always putting the org first and at all the events, almost like it was their job to be there.
And it's a favorite tactic of the FBI too, they were infiltrating everybody during the cold war, even the damn ACLU. Even though the USSR is gone, the FBI is still very much alive. So I don't think it's particularly unlikely. It was a fairly seizable org too, so it would have likely gotten some fed attention.
Also probably the biggest thing was the fact that this person was one of the most consistently available and competent members we had. It's no wonder they became a leader because they were always involving themselves in everything and even doing a good job as well. They were knowledgeable, inclusive, got along well socially with everyone. They didn't act like an asshole at all honestly. But now I think that was suspicious in itself; organizing in this country is hard, its normal for people to get busy or get stressed. But they were always putting the org first and at all the events, almost like it was their job to be there.
It does not bode well that one sign of being a fed is the fact that you're noticeably more competent than everyone else.
I don’t think so. A fed has the full backing of the US government for training and material conditions. They don’t have to worry about normal concerns (food, missing a day of work, rent, etc), the government takes care of that. They are an infiltrating fed. More than likely, their entire job is working this organization.
Compared to a leftist with a day job that’s disillusioned with the system (usually because they’ve been oppressed by it), who has a whole life outside of the org to worry about. For most, the org comes second by necessity. They don’t have the same privilege that the government confers upon the pigs. So, I think it’s no wonder at all they’re able to outperform the typical member.
It should be the expected outcome that the fed is able to be a more effective member, and that should be planned against. I don’t think that should diminish from the efforts of others in the org, and I don’t think it bodes one way or another, it’s another obstacle we can analyze and overcome.
I suppose there's less attachment to the cause. If you see the org failing around you as a fed, it's because you're doing your job correctly
Dismantled? How was one agent able to do that singlehandedly?
who had been on the leadership committee
Sounds like too much power put in the hands of the LC
who had been on the leadership committee since before I even joined.
Multiple orgs in the UK have been infiltrated when they're as few as 5 members before even becoming orgs, just at the "marxist book club" stage.
It should absolutely be assumed that infiltration is occurring at the very very earliest stages. It is the easiest time to gain trust.
Hahaha my org is like four people and has been for three years. You're doing great
Yeah my org is doing that rn. For these guys I think the problem is they never put any work into building a bench, so when people inevitably burn out, move on or literally just move away there's no one ready for leadership.
My org is trying to fix this by getting people out for potluck dinners like @ScrewdriverFactoryFactoryProvider@hexbear.net mentioned but like, left organizing is notorious for having a bunch of weirdos in their membership who can be tedious to socialize with. I don't want to have dinner with my org I want to organize with my org and have dinner with my friends. Maybe if we have a good action we go out for a drink or something to hang out but if I have time to just go do that I'd much rather do that with people I know I love hanging out with not the fifty year old left anti-communist and the Breadtube guy.
The planet's just a bit poorly. A high fever and a couple million years of bedrest will have it back right as rain no matter what we do.
We're all dying though, so there's that.
The main group I’m with locally was killed by wreckers almost ten years ago, which was before I came to this city. It took a few years to even get the local reestablished on paper, and I joined shortly after that. We’ve been struggling to expand for years. If it wasn’t for having a big, well known national organization, it would absolutely be dead, as most of our new members have come from that.
Now, getting people engaged is hard. Before COVID, we had established weekly in-person hangouts where we socialize, complain about work, talk theory, and do org work (in that order of priority). COVID obviously killed that, but we brought it back when we felt comfortable. We try to have in person meetings as much as possible, but always make the official meetings hybrid online so that not everyone has to risk COVID, and we’re all adults with jobs and families (presumably).
I would suggest providing social space for members. This also helps provide a fun onboarding experience when you bring a new member to a bar or coffee shop and just kinda chill and talk shop with people who’ve been around for a while. It’s a much better experience than bringing them to an official meeting where we’re concerned with rules of order and agendas.
COVID obviously killed that
We were able to keep on doing most of our stuff. Our level of outreach declined, but our regular programming and interaction with each other stayed consistent. It was a several-point strategy that we used: open multiple windows; use fans and air purifiers and CO2 meters; establish "pods" who are the only safe people you go maskless indoors around; always mask up outside your pod and especially outside the org; physical distancing and further occupancy limits based on level of breathing.
We went almost 2 years after the first lockdown without any of our core people catching the rona, and even then it was likely from their workplace.
Mine seems to be struggling and I'm honestly no help right now, but they always bounce back. Finally over my depression and burn-out, so I hope I can go back to doing my part.
Is there like
Any organized opposition to youse splitting into a radlib and a patsoc party?
There's people even from both of these wings who oppose a split. People who agree with Wagenknecht's foreign policy and don't want the party to split because of for example the fear of two halves of the party both becoming undesirable. ...or libs who realize that losing half the membership and support would have disastrous consequences.
Thing is, having the party be held together by tape like this isn't a sustainable solution either, since it leads to constant infighting and finger pointing at 70+ year old boomers who love Putin, hate gay people and are nostalgic for the GDR on one hand and 23 year old sociology students from the inner city whose only politics are "no border, no nation - stop deportations!", LGBT+ rights and hoping the party start denouncing "human rights abuses" worldwide.
I know that with this knowledge, were I to move out of the Bavarian countryside, I'd probably not bother joining at this point. Maybe vote for them (unless the chapter's dominated by Antideutsche or something), but as it is now, the party is not even the graveyard of social movements - it's just there.
