woke-segregationists are among us
Removed by modtwitter leftists must be seeping in somewhere, we need to write up a modern 'combat liberalism'
i honestly dont like using dunk tank on chapos at all. its really dramatic. just call them out on their originial post, and let that settle it.
we need racism and misogyny struggle sessions and purges... I think alaskankiwi had asked for as much when the transphobia bans got announced.
Damn, I liked her posts. I thought she brought a good perspective.
I just learned today there's another fella on the site with "alaska" in the username and was excited with the possibility of a fellow state resident on cha-cha.
I am sad and disappointed I can't say hello now.
Yeah there is a big big difference between self segregation for community or cultural or even safety reasons versus forced segregation by society. The former can be fine and good depending on context and the latter is probably never good.
There's a book on the topic, I think it's called "Why are all the black kids sitting together in the cafeteria". Admittedly I have not read it myself (yet, it's on my list and bookshelf!) but have been told by a few that it's a great book on exactly this topic.
Imagine conflating black liberation with reactionary ethno-nationalism
“Guys the Black Israelites are actually just as good as the Black Panthers because they’re both POC!!!!1!!1!!”
like have you ever actually talked to a black nationalist they are not good people. one i talked to wanted to exterminate jews
edit: this is ultimately what occurs in any sufficiently oppressed group of people. people radicalize and become reactionary or become socialist. happened in czechoslovakia during the nazi occupation too.
sure, self determination is cool and good. just gotta be wary of allying with reactionaries.
Alright i’ll let the discourse do its thing. i will say that i don’t think i ever asserted i was still correct. i don’t even really have an articulated position to be correct on in this thread beyond “segregation is bad and self-segregation isn’t segregation”
i agree that losing her is bad but don’t act like i harassed her or repeatedly compared her to white nationalists. i said the idea of self segregation is an inverse of segregation and that white nationalists might like that idea, which is hardly comparing her to them.
i’ll pull out now
OP, as you can see, there's a lot of discussion around what this poster meant by segregation and what would be acceptable or understandable. No one here knows what she meant by "ensure our equality" either, maybe it was promoting separation ideas for black liberation, who knows. But you labeled them a reactionary, a liberal, a woke-segregationist, and compared them to nationalists etc
And you made a dunk tank post about it when it became clear that they didn't really want to engage with you. You could have taken a moment to get clarification on what they were saying, and if it really was a bad take you could have guided them, but instead your eagerness to dunk on them in the thread and here lead them to delete their account. Reconsider how you handle this, if you can't talk to someone here on chapo dot chat you're never gonna convert anyone outside of these spaces
Way to drive away a comrade away cause you want to go for an ebic dunk about how class is the only thing that matters, very cool. You didn't even take time to hear their point or understand what they were saying before the lecture came out, lol
it seems she didn’t change her opinion and self-segregated. which since y’all all wanna say self-segregation in the form of self-determination isn’t bad (not the worst thing when it isn’t imposed), doesn’t seem like the worst thing to happen. she acted on convictions she already held, it isn’t like i pushed her to segregation.
I absolutely agree with you, i don’t know why she deleted her account i only responded to her twice and wasn’t hostile. She could’ve elaborated her position if it simply amounted to that
bad take. we all know what they mean by segregation in this instance and it is not the same as mayos redlining.
yeah it isn’t the same but it is still segregation and is thus based on racial contradiction rather than resolution
For resolution we need reparations. Black culture has been completely suppressed in the US and will continue to do so without a way for them to 'catch up'. Segregation, as long as it doesn't come from a place of malice, can be a productive tool to help reinvigorate black culture. Read about Black Nationalism.
i think the distinction here is between self-determination and naturally resulting separation versus an imposed segregation. The word segregation, to me, has always implied a segregator imposing the segregation.
I can see what you mean but I dont think they are calling for the government to segregate, they are calling to allow themselves to segregate. White people already have similar types of segregation since they can leverage their wealth to allow private schools that are all white since no black families in the town can afford to send their kids there. Its not codified that they are a white school but they are effectively a white school. This is the exact problems with how we 'solved' segregation in the first place. Took away the laws but kept all the power white people gained over black people through segregation and allowed that to morph itself into something similar. Through that, black people never really had anywhere to express their culture as a community so it stifled and eventually withered away. A proactive take to rectify that is the only way for black culture to flourish in the US.
Yeah see this isn’t bad, i’m glad i posted this that way comrades like you can further elaborate on the ideas. Whereas the original poster who deleted their posts didn’t engage with me at all substantially, this thread has produced a wealth of perspectives.
I am glad you are receptive to the idea :)
I can see how it seems extremely concerning from the diction used. Black Nationalism sounds extremely not cool either, until you read about it.
Do you have any books or articles about it that you would recommend?
51 upvotes, 41 downvotes
Oh shit this is going to be the struggliest session I ever saw here
Black separatism isn't a new or incorrect concept given the state of America
Look, all I'm saying is that when we die, there's gonna be a planet for the French and a planet for the Chinese and we'll all be a lot happier
user literally uses the word 'segregation'
this thread:
actually op, it's you that does the racism
Mfw “segregation is bad” is a hot take
Like the only real argument anyone here has is “well she didn’t ACKSHUALLY mean segregation!!!!” which like, how tf do you know what they meant? But even if you’re right then it’s not OP’s fault the statement was worded fucking terribly
I’m Native American but good try lol, I’m sure pulling the “you’re white” card will work on the next one
But regardless, if you’re conflating black liberation, which is a leftist ideology about black people separating themselves from the white supremacist state, with black nationalism, which is filled with the exact same reactionary tendencies as other forms of ethno-nationalism (Black Israelites, NOI, for example), then either your podcast hasn’t taught you as much as you think it has, or you’re being willfully dishonest
Can you completely separate them historically? No probably not, but can you purge them of their reactionary elements (which definitely includes the idea of forcibly segregating people based on race) so you’re left with a truly liberatory ideology, rather than a non-materialist one which attributes racism to individual behavior rather than class relations? Yes, you can and you should
None of what you’re saying is wrong, and I should’ve been more nuanced about my use of the term black nationalism, since you’re right that it’s not inherently reactionary
But this conversation is specifically about segregation, which in my view is inherently reactionary regardless of the greater ideological project it happens to be a part of
Black nationalism sounds fucking awful too until you actually know what it means. Stop acting like words don't have different meanings in different contexts and just do some independent research.
There’s no context where forcibly separating people based on race is not reactionary. If your definition of segregation is different from that then I suppose I could see your point, but I’ve made it clear what kind of segregation I’m talking about
Yes nobody is using that definition of segregation. There is no call for an authoritarian body to forcibly separate races, they are calling to allow themselves to separate from white people for a multitude of reasons a) they can't trust white people in a white supremacist state and b) they have lost much of their culture due to slavery and segregation so they want an opportunity to rectify that proactively.
yup i have nothing against what is here being described as possible non-segregationist interpretations of what she meant
