- cross-posted to:
- sino
- cross-posted to:
- sino
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Firstly based zoomers.
Secondly, for a good time, compare the wikipedias for the blatantly illegal 996 system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996_working_hour_system
The actual law:
The State shall practise a working hour system wherein labourers shall work for no more than eight hours a day and no more than 44 hours a week on the average.
Btw the recently disappeared Jack Ma was a huge proponent of 996!
Now lets look at the wikipedia for crunch time, since it's effectively the same thing but isn't illegal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_developer#Crunch_time
It doesn't even have it's own page and the whole section is entirely like "it's Good, Actually", because the law says they can do it and they uhhh provide food.
Crunch time has been used in the industry but until 2004 was generally not discussed openly. A 2004 survey by the International Game Developers Association (IGDA) found only about 3% of respondents did not work any overtime, and of those that did, nearly half were not compensated for overtime.
Seems like a pretty widespread problem if 97% of surveyed devs were forced to do crunch. They need to take a cue from the zoomers.
Final edit:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/01/japan-has-some-of-the-longest-working-hours-in-the-world-its-trying-to-change.html
Nearly one quarter of Japanese companies require employees to work more than 80 hours of overtime a month, according to a 2016 government survey. Those extra hours are often unpaid.
damn i wonder why China gets singled out for the ILLEGAL labor violations tho
If it is illegal, why doesn't the party swing the hammer and let it come down hard on these companies?
i mean, apparently they are if you believe reddit about what happened to jack ma ;)
One dude, and if he got got it was probably not for labor violations, right?
idk, why don't you research and it find out?
edit: downvoted for asking someone to do basic research? after i posted a ton of links up there? I didn't even mean this in a mean way, i just want more facts. bruh
damn, i can't either. guess we're in the same boat
why was this downvoted????? lol
Building socialism takes time, but all the trends are in the right direction. Sorry it isn’t swift and pure enough for you, sitting in your computer chair in America.
Letting capitalist corporations squeeze their workers for the last drop, and that for years and years while the CPC watches on. Such great socialism.
I'm sorry, I'm really not against China or anything(if you want check my post history), but you don't need to defend everything that happens in China.
Wow have you ever read Lenin? The initial stages of socialism resemble state capitalism, since socialism emerges out of capitalism. Because they don’t leap to full communism, we must condemn!
The trends are in the right direction. Everything is going according to plan. Just chill the fuck out chauvinist. Have some patience and some solidarity.
It's not chauvinist to criticize material conditions.
What's the point of having a communist party if you are going to allow capitalist working conditions and exploitation? Just pull a USSR and collapse so capitalism can run it's natural course if that's really your take.
Anyway, for me the material argument that dominates a lot of this is that china is still developing.
We see they passed the US by some metrics and the constant fear mongering in the US and I feel like I forget that sometimes. If something like poor conditions for otherwise well off tech workers takes time to address because there are still worse problems sucking up attention that makes sense. Workers fighting back also makes sense.
Conditions are improving year over year. What’s the point of being a communist if you demand instant perfection and ignore the real results in front of your face?
I'm not, making improvements is good.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't examine and question.
Learn so much more about China on here from discussion and reading. it's good as long as we don't let it devolve into "China bad".
Conditions are improving year over year in America. Like, literally go look up any statistics. Does that make it good? Does that mean you can't criticize America without being a chauvinist?
You are literally just using neoliberal platitudes like "expanding health care access" and it's just as bullshit. There are no downsides to better worker protections except the loss of profits to capitalists. You're talking about being a good materialist elsewhere, but for SOME REASON ignoring a basic economic motivation for the actual conditions. Hmmm......
And you can't have better worker protections in a state capitalist system, where the state can dictate what flies or doesn't fly?
Come on.
Worker protections, wages and conditions are all skyrocketing. Again, you need to take a materialist look at the before and after and the big picture trends
this is what i tell people who ask my why i haven't joined an org.
This touches on something that I seldom see brought up on chapo.chat’s ceaseless China wank: it many cases, it sucks to be a worker in China, well beyond the ways in which it sucks here in the US.
It’s not just that they work hard, they work way beyond the optimal times for peak productivity, so I don’t even see how it can be justified as toil in the name of building socialism, especially when people like Jack Ma (🦀🦀🦀) get to be billionaires off of that labor.
The 996 work schedule is illegal and not condoned by the party. They are working on cracking down on it
Even if they do, there is just so much power with corporations that not that much is being done.
So, are you saying the capitalists controlling these corporations are basically more powerful than the party in present-day China?
I don't know if more, but they certainly have strategic power and the party can't do anything it wants immediately. Maybe they even do have more power than the party, after all economic power is political power.
It is a sad state of affairs.
Truly a sad state of affairs.
In my imaginary ideal the party would give them a month to rectify these policies and would also force them to pay reparations to workers who have been subjected to this practice.
If they don't abide GTFO
If they aren't wouldn't that mean the Party is willingly letting them do this? Wouldn't that be worse?
it sucks to be a worker in China, well beyond the ways in which it sucks here in the US.
Hey, even China offers state-mandated minimum time off from work, 11 public holidays, on top of whatever the employer gives. No such legally mandated guarantee in the US. Right-to-work is also a massive anti-labor practice, and it's quite common for people to work way, way more than 40 hour per week. As awful as labor practices are in China, at least work is easy to come by if you quit or are fired.
America also has higher average work weeks than China. Americans average over 50 hours a week, which is the 2nd highest in the world, below Japan.
Since things have been steadily improving for all of my life for China, and steadily worsening for the west, I'd like to say they are on the right track. Western socialism is so individualistic, you think mostly about one worker at a time, but that doesn't win you anything. As a collective things are getting better, as a collective things are getting done. Nothing is gained without sacrifice. At least with China that sacrifice has made things better for all instead of just a few capitalists. They still have capitalists, like Ma, but that kind of thing has it's uses too.
Perfect socialism/ communism only exists on paper.
Can anyone translate "boss makes a dollar while I make a dime, that's why I shit on company time" into Chinese for me
In general, Generation Z abhors the so-called 996 work rhythm – shifts that last from 9am to 9pm, six days a week – widely expected of employees by Chinese tech giants.
Sounds like a great system. wtf
Regarding the response from bosses, the blogger Massage Bear wrote: “Even if my boss scolds me [for ‘touching fish’], calls me rubbish or blames me for being not responsible, I will just smile and will never get angry. I will never take the initiative to resign. If he fires me, I will receive compensation of ‘N+1’.”
China’s Labour Law stipulates that if a company fires an employee without substantive reasons, it should pay them compensation, which is usually the employee’s monthly salary times the number (N) of years they have worked for the company plus one.So, how substantive of a reason do they need?
China’s Labour Law stipulates that if a company fires an employee without substantive reasons, it should pay them compensation, which is usually the employee’s monthly salary times the number (N) of years they have worked for the company plus one.
Holy shit this is literally better than some of the best unemployment/pension systems in the US.
Which is why I asked the question of what constitutes a substantive reason, because at least in the west it seems corporations aren't having issues coming up with stuff to get someone canned.
Like for example the often used tool of restructuring that just most unfortunately eliminated a few jobs.
Obviously I couldn't say if this translates to China, but I can't imagine their corporations being much different in that respect.If their confidence is anything to go by, that blogger at least seemed to believe they'd receive it even if they were fired for slacking off.
Unlikely, but I'd be willing to believe that it is for at least some, which would be an improvement on a lot of places.
Boomers are bad in China too. Who woulda thunk it....
Also, love too have 996 work culture with minimal protections in “socialist” China
My point is it's absurd to expect a government to follow their policy just because they say they will
I feel so connected to my fellow humans on the other side of the Earth
A Shanghai-based white-collar worker using the alias Massage Bear shot to fame on Weibo in 2020 by promoting the “touching fish” philosophy. One of her posts which went viral read: “How hard you work depends on how much money you receive and never be serious about your work.”
the bear aesthetic is universal
Bears. Bread. Trains.
Although I do wonder if Trains are an American thing and if foreign comrades appreciate what they have.
i remember reading a chinese train enthusiast forum and it had like 1million members on it just for posting about chinese trains and train rumors so tbh its a thing for sure in china
the most principled marxist since Maos in the lead and the most class conscious generation since Maos time in the masses :sicko-yes:
I feel like this is any job under capitalism. Any leftist will feel like shit at any job because there is so much important work to be done but the capitalist system forbids or disincentivizes it and instead we just waste time on worthless spreadsheets because we have to fucking eat. I wish we had 5-year plans with ambitious goals and something like the CCC but for literally everything. Anything I would consider progress will probably never happen in the US and I'm pretty much trapped here forever because lol borders.
Crazy thought
This is the point and the CCP will encourage these people to turn to political interests in response to their problems.
The CCP is building an interest in politics by intentionally allowing its own people to be mistreated and exploited? That is certainly an interesting theory you have.
