Damn that was funny
I’m not a huge Zizek fan, but peterson showing up to a debate on Marxism having skimmed the communist manifesto is fucking incredible. It would be like showing up to debate the pope on Christianity having read the nativity story.
oh yeah I don't love Zizek but it was hilarious. Really shows off that right wing arrogance too
I love Zizek, he has the best worst takes. I don’t know how anyone even those who disagree with him on things can hate someone who is able to double fist hotdogs without shame and so on.
Lol, you can take the man out of Slovenia, and so on, but his public shaming at enjoying cheap tubed meats will still also derive a certain perverse kind of pleasure, and so on and so on.
:zizek-fuck:
Peterson knew literally nothing about Zizek and spent the whole “debate” agreeing with every point he made.
This is actually very common for people who vaguely hate leftist/liberal discourse and know absolutely nothing about socialism/marxism/anarchism.
You lay out your ideas and go "uhh ye dats troo innit" like dozens of times, and then ignore all of it and go "ye but communlism bad"
That's the thing about Petersen, I never got the impression he actually understood Marxism and was sort of thinking it meant a vague nihilism by people he doesn't like.
hakim was too nice. he should've grilled him on those foreign policy takes and drone strikes jokes.
The professional managerial class is turning into homeless van-life types, but not any of the ones which bourgeois hegemony thinks are materially important to justify status quo ideology.
For the debate, debates don’t work. It doesn’t matter how much someone gets totally owned, the people who agree with them will dream up some interpretation where they actually won, only lost due to “unfair debate tactics” or just go quiet in their support for a few weeks and then act like they never saw the debate.
As for his other shenanigans, I think that did lose him some popularity but ultimately a lot of his fans view him as a daddy figure and so his flaws “humanize” him to them. Also his philosophy is just agnostic Christianity so forgiving people for personal flaws as long as they hate the gays as much as you is big with them.
Didn't Peterson have a live stream the night before the debate (I thought that's where the pretty famous screenshots of him where his room is trashed and he looks all red and wet came from) where he says that he hadn't done any research AT ALL or read any of Zizek's works?I feel like I remember seeing a clip where he held up that copy of the manifesto and was like "I still have a few hours to cram."
"I've got tomorrow, and you can do a lot in one day"
https://youtu.be/MT82V08nM1A
Yes! This is the one I was thinking of! I guess I got it crossed with this image and also this one in my head, still a pretty funny clip though :michael-laugh:
It's just an incredibly powerful moment for everyone who is also a procrastinator.
I think he started believing his own bullshit about Marxism - that it doesn't have a rigorous philosophical foundation behind it. That "Marxism" is just the bad people who want to test down "western civilization". I mean, Zizek can be pretty hard to understand even as a Marxist. I think he figured he could do his tap dance routine and when he realized Zizek is a philosophical heavyweight (at least compared to him) he shit his pants but realized he couldn't back down.
Nothing will ever be funnier to me than Peterson only reading the Communist Manifesto, only reading it twice in his life, and then not understanding a thing about it while Zizek just stared at him.
How can he still have followers.
How can he still have followers.
His followers are the same kind of uncurious, overly impressed with themselves debatelords.
Debateguys desperate for dads.
That debate is just such a polar shift in my understanding of his understanding. Before that I had assumed that even if he's a fascist someone with a doctorate whose main enemy is Marxism would have actually read Marx or Marx-inspired academics after him. He's a tenured professor of psychology who has never read about the theory of alienation or Freudian psychoanalysis in action with Debord. My microeconomics professor, probably a Buttigieg voter, has at least read Society of the Spectacle and understood what Marxism is as an analytical tool even if they aren't a Marxist economist. But then he got on the stage and quoted page one of the Communist Manifesto and misunderstood it. It's such crying clown bullshit that I can't imagine taking him seriously. Even before he became the comatose addict who writes self-help books, even before his chaos dragon daughter and him went on an all-meat diet which cured depression, how can someone watch that debate and then see him as anything other than Joe Rogan without DMT. He's big dumb.
If they were actually real you'd think we'd know by now, right?
Nvm, I just found James Lindsay's twitter, now I see that liberal college profs are actually hegelian supermaoist fourier transform hypermetapostmodernist cultural gormunismts
What if the real Fourier transform was the eigenfunctions we made along the way?
Just decided to go full trot and split the party, Fourier transforms are a fuck, Laplace transforms is where it's at!
What's funny is in Peterson's answer, not only is he not able to name one, but he does say there's this one study which proves it, so I checked that "study", and it was funded by billionaires.
People have mentioned it already but my favorite part was where Zizek asked him to directly name some Marxist professors to which Peterson seemed to stumble.
Zizek then offered David Harvey, who is enormous in leftist academia, then Peterson didn't seem to know who he was. I'm pretty sure Peterson wanted to go back to who he usually names, like Foucault, Derrida, and the Frankfurt school, but he couldn't because they've all been dead for 30+ years.
I enjoyed it not only for the entertainment but I appreciated their discussion on happiness within a socio-political power structure.
Am I having false memories or did Jordan Peterson literally google "Marxism" halfway through the debate because he was getting owned so badly?
I don't think it was confirmed but it appeared to be that way
