I'm just going to start calling them The Virtual Left - it's appropriate in both senses of the word. It sucks so much that this is 'the left' that gets all the exposure.
I honestly roll it over in my head again and again. I want to believe that the majority of these people really have good intentions, so why are they putting so much time into something that is not only giving them zero results, but is taking place on a platform designed, designed by capitalists, to monopolize your attention? I feel like under all the arguing and posturing and vitriol, in the end it's just a bunch of people who don't know what to do and can't admit that to eachother. It's not even radicalizing to see these fucking arguments, so you can't make the excuse that "at least we're bringing people to the left."
JESUS CHRIST WHY ARE THEY STILL ARGUING ABOUT THIS STUPID BULLSHIT
brie literally brings it up on every single episode. i agree with her for reasons but holy shit she's so online and can't let it go
It's not even like I think forcing a vote is a bad idea but neither do I think it will have any huge impact
nah it won't. i supported them voting against pelosi because she was pelosi, because we need more wrenches thrown into the machine, and because you have enough people screaming for it you might as well see if it helps keep the dems on their toes
Because there's a pandemic and dems control congress and the executive
she gets so much fucking hate on the mr sub. not good folks, reddit is very bad.
can’t believe FTV divided the left this much
TYT (and MR) are not left wing.
Believing capitalism is the fundamental problem and class struggle is the fundamental issue at hand.
Hypothetically, supporting Bernie because you agree with his policies, left wing or no?
Sorta? I mean de-privatizing (to a certain extent) a major industry causing people harm can in part be seen as anti-capitalist.
And yes, podcasts and popular left-wingish media can get libby. That's how they bring in a lot of people.
Chapo were right in remaining agnostic on this. Both sides have good points. Holy fuck move on. Jesus. Everyone on both sides acts like the other killed their dog.
Like 95% of the stuff people call ops is actually just people being very dumb.
Send like the main argument for it is why not, and the main argument against is why bother.
FTV isn't about passing M4A, it's meant to try and bolster the MPP, which is why the discourse continues among the media figures that work with the MPP.
FTV is 100% a creation of left lib media members to pump up their views as the space becomes saturated.
Some try to get views as proponents. Some try to get views as detractors. Either way, it's not a real issue. If you talk to people who haven't made politics a hobby, you'll find out that they have no idea about FTV.
I know politics more than most people do day to day, and i still don't know what "ftv" is beyond it being an acronym I've seen more frequently..
I assume it's some sort of vote to identify who is establishment or not, but I don't know the issue. Is it impeachment related? It seems symbolic but ultimately useless in reality?
Then again I'm not American, so...
It's a porn site that specializes in solo action for lesser-known pornstars.
:sicko-yes: :party-sicko: :sicko-yes:
I'm aware of that FTV...
:sicko-yes: :party-sicko: :sicko-yes:
I honestly can't believe it still exists, it's like a decade old now, from the pre-Porn Hub era. I have no idea how it consistently made money that whole time. Is it a money laundering scheme?
I like to imagine the person running it is doing it for pure love of the game. Maybe it breaks even or turns a small profit or whatever, but ultimately its just a passion project to provide solo stuff to all the sickos of the world
Just one dude with a passion for women fucking uncomfortably large objects
"you don't understand bro this is my life's work bro"
The Medicare for All vote is the issue, there was some disagreement over how hard to press for a formal vote and whether to vote for Pelosi as speaker without concessions.
this is just a really bad over simplification. you can literally say that about almost anything that happens in the political sphere. using uninformed americans as a barometer for what has substance and what doesn't is super shitty.
force the vote was as decent as anything electoralism could produce, and the only people against it were fucking libs.
and the only people against it were fucking libs.
There are arguments for and against, don't be like this.
nope. that's how it is, and it was even agreed upon to be the tactic to use before the squad started doing fucking photoshoots with "mama bear."
A lot of enlightened centrists ITT. The fact is Brihana has consistently been right on this and - even if they were right about Dore - the antis have been shitting their pants arguing against her with easily dismissed lies and hysteria. Nobody right-minded could watch her debate with Seder and come away thinking these were equally valid positions
I stay out of libs fighting libs but it was the funniest shit when AOC turned around and defended the House's entirely performative resolution to ask Mike Pence to invoke the 25th with all of the exact same arguments FTV was levying against her
Here's how AOC can still win
I wouldn't say this conversation is irrelevant. This boat left the dock a long time ago but the question of whether AOC should try to force a vote on M4A might be important going forward.
Personally, I'm pretty convinced they'll start passing shit like M4A when they're convinced we're going to get our guillotines out and not just joke about them. Not one day before that. That's what it's going to take, and we shouldn't just take M4A and go home if we get to that point.
Imagine calling yourself a socialist and thinking that a forced vote in bourgeois electoral politics on something we know the outcome is going to be anything besides a waste of time, waste of organizing, and a lot of schocked pikas.
That’s pretty much my take on it. Once again it is the circumstances and conditions that effect politics. Who would have thought?
I agree.
Withholding congressional votes to enforce concessions is good. An m4a floor vote isn't a particularly valuable or worthwhile concession to us.
We know who would and wouldn’t vote for it anyway, or at least have good assumptions. Plus what will this prove? That democrats are hypocrites?
Force the vote is good. Get these people on the record as being for or against M4A when the dems have a majority so they can’t pull the shit biden did when he ran and a ton of people just assumed he supported M4A for no real reason.
Edited for clarity and also to add: there is a reason every candidate that ran on being pro M4A kept their seat. Put these MFs to the test.
Without getting too much into it FTV (ForceTheVote) that was being pushed to get a floor vote for M4A. The whole thing blew up on leftist twitter and apparently people are still going at each other over it. Really shouldn't have been as serious as its ended up being and I haven't really followed it aside from a few posts on here.
People seem skeptical whenever I say this has to be some sort of op - not like cia shit, but still. It’s been super effective in starting fights in left media sphere that erode any common unification against other things.... just sayin. Pretty clear
not like cia shit, but still
Then it's not an op. People being dumb is not an op. It's just that the online American "left" is super obsessed with twitter quasi-celebs who are consistently confidently clueless.
If the DNC paid a PR firm to plant the idea, it would be a terrific op. Doesn’t have to be spooks doing it
