Permanently Deleted

  • howdyoudoo [comrade/them]
    ·
    4 years ago

    Okay so it's a diet + more stuff. It still requires all the change that a diet requires...plus more stuff.

    • a_blanqui_slate [none/use name, any]
      ·
      edit-2
      4 years ago

      Which is brought about by a change in how you think, just like all the other things I mentioned. My point is this struggle session isn't special.

      • howdyoudoo [comrade/them]
        ·
        edit-2
        4 years ago

        Liking China = a change in thinking

        being vegan = a change in thinking, + a change in diet, + other stuff (leather, wool, etc)

        Liking China doesn't cost me anything, it's pretty easy to do. That was the point of my original comment.

        • a_blanqui_slate [none/use name, any]
          ·
          4 years ago

          Liking China isn't anti-imperialism.

          Look the point is this struggle isn't any different from any other topic controversial in leftist spaces.

          • howdyoudoo [comrade/them]
            ·
            edit-2
            4 years ago

            but you're wrong, the struggle is inherently different.

            it's literally material conditions.

            Liking China isn't material. Being vegan is. Material > all.

              • howdyoudoo [comrade/them]
                ·
                4 years ago

                Minutiae. But fine I'll change my comment.

                anti-imperialism = a change in thinking

                veganism = a change in thinking, + a change in diet, + other stuff (leather, wool, etc)

                • a_blanqui_slate [none/use name, any]
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  4 years ago

                  Anti-imperialism also requires a change in actions as well. You seem to be hung up more on changing consumption habits. Which are distinct but I'm not convinced meaningfully when it comes to struggle sessions.

                  • howdyoudoo [comrade/them]
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    4 years ago

                    Anti-imperialism doesn't require a total and measurable discrete change in action.
                    Veganism does.

                    Everyone can claim to be Anti-imperialist in some sense, the borders have no definition.
                    Veganism, not so

                    therefore it is easier to be anti-imperialist than vegan.

                    You seem to be hung up more on changing consumption habits.

                    because that is a requirement for being vegan.

                    • a_blanqui_slate [none/use name, any]
                      ·
                      edit-2
                      4 years ago

                      And your position is that this struggle session is different at a fundamental level because it's harder to not buy cheese than a SodaStream?

                      • howdyoudoo [comrade/them]
                        ·
                        edit-2
                        4 years ago

                        veganism doesn't just require forgoing cheese, but all animal products. And cheese is a much broader category than "a sodastream", so yes.

                        anti-imperialism requires....??? Nobody fuckin' knows because there's no threshold for what constitutes anti-imperialism and what doesn't. Obviously EVERYBODY supports imperialistic businesses in some form or another, just by paying taxes to the US you are supporting imperialism.

                        So whatever the "threshold" of anti-imperialism is, it's nowhere near absolute, because if it was then literally nobody would be an anti-imperialist. Veganism is well defined and absolute.

                          • howdyoudoo [comrade/them]
                            ·
                            4 years ago

                            I never said that. I'm not vegan. I support eating less meat though, and if someone can make veganism work for them that's good

                            • a_blanqui_slate [none/use name, any]
                              ·
                              4 years ago

                              I still don't see at all how that makes this struggle session any different in any meaningful way. I don't eat any meat, but I'm not vegan because I don't think that "eating meat is bad" is a universal moral truth.

                              If I thought that, I'd be a vegan.

                              • howdyoudoo [comrade/them]
                                ·
                                edit-2
                                4 years ago

                                If I thought that, I’d be a vegan.

                                Again:

                                to be a vegan you have to think something AND do something to totality
                                to be an anti-imperialist you have to just think something, maybe halfassedly do something

                                that's why veganism inherently is more limiting and less popular even among leftists, and probably even on this site.
                                If you want, you can take a poll, and I'll quote your OP that triggered this debate:

                                This is the same reason people throw shitfits about China, totalitarianism, market socialism, or anything else.

                                based on that:
                                "what % of chapos have a favorable view of China, and/or think it's severely mistreated by western media"
                                and
                                "what % of chapos are vegan"

                                My guess is the former far outpaces the latter

                                • a_blanqui_slate [none/use name, any]
                                  ·
                                  4 years ago

                                  to be an anti-imperialist you have to just think something

                                  I don't anyone except you would sign onto a notion of anti-imperialism that doesn't involve "doing something", it might be more ill-defined than veganism, but it's not like there aren't disagreements between vegans about whats allowed (wool? honey? bee-pollinated fruit?).

                                  My guess is the former far outpaces the latter

                                  Different size camps don't a different struggle session make.

                                  • howdyoudoo [comrade/them]
                                    ·
                                    4 years ago

                                    it might be more ill-defined than veganism

                                    if it's more ill-defined, then it's easier to be one. That's the entire point.

                                    • a_blanqui_slate [none/use name, any]
                                      ·
                                      edit-2
                                      4 years ago

                                      It's easier for me to not eat meat (which is something I already do for reasons of convenience) that it is for me to think something I don't think.