Permanently Deleted

  • spiroagnew [none/use name]
    ·
    4 years ago

    ban anyone who feels the need to start a new one

    ban anyone who feels the need to blame individuals for things instead of systems, and parody anyone who doubles down on the idea that individual choice will solve systemic problems

    • Kaputnik [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Are you not kinda baiting another one by framing your reply this way?

        • Kaputnik [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          I've literally never replied to one of your comments before I don't know what you're talking about?

          • spiroagnew [none/use name]
            ·
            4 years ago

            you are right, i misread your name as someone else's name. my bad and sincere apology in the instant negative reaction

            • Kaputnik [he/him]
              ·
              4 years ago

              All good I get it tensions are high right now :af-heart:

          • spiroagnew [none/use name]
            ·
            4 years ago

            yelling at people that we need universal health care has been extremely successful in the USA, let's take that same rhetoric to animal liberation

              • spiroagnew [none/use name]
                ·
                4 years ago

                the discourse changed away from yelling which is why it's popular

                turns out making people feel guilty about things doesn't inspire them to want to make change, but instead causes them to disengage

                • garbage [none/use name,he/him]
                  cake
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  it's not individual choice that keeps for profit health care going, of course CEOs and board members of insurance companies aren't going to feel guilty, they're sociopaths.

                  your comparing apples to plastic bottles.

            • J_Edbear_Hoover [she/her]
              ·
              4 years ago

              Here's the thing, if your health and finances allow, you can make the choice to opt out of consuming animal products, not so for universal healthcare.

                  • spiroagnew [none/use name]
                    ·
                    4 years ago

                    that's the problem and reinforces why individual choice isn't effective. I hope you see this some day

                    • J_Edbear_Hoover [she/her]
                      ·
                      edit-2
                      4 years ago

                      What? Opting out of healthcare in the US just means I don't have healthcare. There is no critical mass of people opting out of health insurance which will force change. Opting out of consuming animal products, on the other hand, does produce an immediate impact.

                      • spiroagnew [none/use name]
                        ·
                        4 years ago

                        a mass movement of people not having healthcare (a strike of sorts) would actually be pretty effective

                        • J_Edbear_Hoover [she/her]
                          ·
                          4 years ago

                          Except you can't. In my state your employer is mandated to force you into an insurance plan, unless you can prove you are otherwise covered.

                          • spiroagnew [none/use name]
                            ·
                            4 years ago

                            hmm so you're saying that individuals making a choice won't do anything, as it takes collective action (as you acknowledge that it would be effective to have an insurance strike)?

                            I wonder how this relates to individual consumption choices...

                            • J_Edbear_Hoover [she/her]
                              ·
                              4 years ago

                              Every vegan I know acknowledges that the more people we convert to our philosophy the greater impact we will have. Yet when we do try and convince people to give up animal products we're accused of being "sanctimonious" and forcing our views on others. I really don't understand how leftists can't understand this, if the revolution happened tomorrow and our side won,, how many liberals would we be forcing to conform to a way of life that they vehemently disagree with? Marxism is about the collective good vs the individual and, humanitarian considerations aside, a society devoid of animal products is a net collective good.

                              • spiroagnew [none/use name]
                                ·
                                edit-2
                                4 years ago

                                being pissed off at friends won't get them on our side.

                                that's what you're doing here - yelling at people and refusing to acknowledge that it's not about the Individual Choices of the people you are shaming. Shaming just shuts people down and off subjects (as you see by the many non-vegans who are posting threads about how this is triggering things like their fucking eating disorders) instead of bringing them towards wanting to fight for the collective

                                Someone can eat meat today but stand for and fight for animal liberation. That's what we ultimately want - Animal Liberation even if it doesn't happen tomorrow. I won't be yelling at people who opt to eat meat in the meantime as long as I can continue the fight to get them to agree that Animal Liberation is the correct end goal we all must work towards in regards to animal rights. Their being allies is what brings around the material change

            • garbage [none/use name,he/him]
              cake
              ·
              4 years ago

              yeah, but enough people haven't individually made the choice to go on general strike, which is the way we actually get there.

    • GrandAyatollaLenin [he/him,comrade/them]
      ·
      4 years ago

      and parody anyone who doubles down on the idea that individual choice will solve systemic problems

      Uh... Please say this just means make fun of them