I’m done with my schtick that AOC is good or bad depending on the day.
She’s taking money from young progressives who want her to primary conservative dems and giving it directly to conservative dems like Conor Lamb... lmao.
She also gave money to CIA spook Abigail spanbergler who has publicly and privately talked shit about her repeatedly... lol
I didn’t realize her descent into being awful would be this quick. Wonder what her associated orgs are doing? Will justice dems just fizzle out or be wrapped into the establishment?
Yikes all around.
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I’m just giving people an outlet to do i-told-you-so so it doesn’t show up every time AOC is mentioned henceforth
Hot take: AOC is actually a really good representative of the American "left" because it's mostly college students who know they're overqualified for all the work that's available to them and once they reach an "appropriate" job or position in society they will immidiately cast down any radicalism.
cough DSA cough
the majority of these new Bernie leftists are temporarily embarrassed middle class consumer drones. If you're in the heart of Empire and your leftism is dominated by domestic policies you're probably not in it for long run. Fighting against US imperialism should be at least equal to domestic issues if you're a leftist in the Imperial core, otherwise at best you're creating a new generation of socdem imperialists. If your foreign policy takes are mostly the same as those of the State Department then you're hopeless.
Makes this feel even more contrived because even though that hire was awful, there weren’t any clear changed until late 2020. Just some very subtle things. But then boom. In a few months she’s done what I expected her to take a year or two or three in terms of becoming a ghoul
Probably because like any Dem, she wanted to look good in contrast with Trump and the Republic majority Senate. Now that the Dems have power she decided to go full mask off and show that she's just an establishment Dem, who might still have some slightly better positions than her colleagues.
Idk there seems to be more to the story. Even 🐍 isn’t like this in terms of doing an about face because dems are in charge
Considering the entire purpose of the democratic party for decades has been a release valve for working class greivances designed to disarm and co opt legitimate movements, yes.
If you see concessions from them, please thank, BLM, water defenders, labour organizers and the ccp for forming a legitimate opposition to the white supremacist bourgeois world order.
No shitting on anyone, but I knew it wouldn’t be long before people from various leftist forums started hating AoC she’s too mainstream at this point and too man to people who would be perceived as a ‘lib’ here like her. Not into her much myself, but that’s because she says things that aren’t really compelling to me and that I’ve heard before from the books I’ve read. I don’t have like a hate boner for her
Don’t pay much attention as of late to US politics because even the left is just a bitter shit show.
Also, fuck chapotraphouse revleft is much better and not quasi class reductionist.
They may be able to tell you he marched with MLK and voted against the Iraq war.
Soooo don't you see how this maybe matters for how they evaluate him?
I do wonder how much of the constant hate she gets is because of the color of her skin. People criticize Bernie and get upset with decisions he makes, but still show some support
It could have some effect but AOC is a more prominent figure in twitter and twitch sphere in terms of appearance. So terminally online people will prefer to go after the terminally online more often lol. Also yeah Bernie sucks too but now I tend to think this (AOC, Bernie, Nitya Raman, etc) is all a result of a lack of a mass party which could impose some party discipline and principles as opposed to depending on the quixotic quest of a rag tag bunch of politicians to save the world (where these people make compromises for their careers or minor gains). With the backing of a growing movement/party they would feel more comfortable being belligerent for longer.
don’t buy that it’s some cult of personality that she’s online, they’re online, so they condemn her more. It’s just racism and sexism.
I am not as online so I will accept it for now. In conversations with people I tend to criticize her more because she is brought up more often.
Hmmm the way you phrase it is interesting. Germany had both a strong labour movement and a party. They failed miserably. I am not sure how a labor movement can work in America. Where is the space to organize all uber drivers? What kind of organization can bring in people from students and in atomised fields into the process to seize state power? Also why completely tie our hands behind our backs and say no to only politics, yes to labor organizing. Why can't we have a party of labor which has people in amazon warehouses forming unions and people also helping people elected if nothing else to give them a pulpit to get more people to join the party? (This is all pie in the sky but anyway).
I do agree that labor needs to be combative, if we are being idealistic I would say that instead of demanding for what they want they should seize state power.
We don’t have the organizing currently to have a new party and a new party doesn’t just create organizing, in fact one could argue it take valuable resources and people away from it.
I see lemme see if I understand you correctly: You think it is easier to get socialists elected as democrats (the DSA or our revolution strat) as opposed to get organizing groups together to form an electoral party. I can see your reservations about doing it nationally but I would think that new york state in a year or so could basically try to make all its DSA candidates switch into a new party. Maybe Nevada too. I have 0 idea if that is the goal because from what I understand even at the local level there is no fealty to the organization. No voting in blocks. Just find good people which are good. Which is nice but why not try to get them to form a fist?
Anyway re forming a new party, I imagine the idea would be to get enough local orgs together to form a coalition. I am also fine for this 'party/coalition' to run people as democrats while keeping these people rooted to this now org so they can be thrown out and loose the support of grassroots organizers who share a vision with the org and not just this person's campaign. DSA could do this, I have no idea why it doesn't (well ok I kinda do they have no mechanisms in place to enforce that kind of discipline).
AOC is Pelosi 2.0, only this time she's riding mild demsoc language instead of anti-war, anti-big business
Lol. The dude has been on string of toldsyou so wins lately and there is always, his still a grifter dumdass out there.
the secret for my success on this is i never trust any american under any circumstance
Always hoped Bernie or Gloria La Riva would win but outside of that I've been checked out of electoralism since like I get burnt out on Ron Paul back in my reactionary libertarian days.
Well, check into local electoralism because the left won’t even get a glimpse of any real power without it. But you’re right about National electoralism
Yeah I should have added the caveat that local elections matter. Of course they do, what's happening in your neighborhood I'd say is often more important than the national level. And beyond that, electoralism at that level has all but made sure nothing will fundamentally change.
As someone who helped a local politician get elected, I'm not even sure local elections can escape the grip of special interests, especially in bigger cities. Took 6 months before our guy started to go the way of the rest of them. That alone completely blackpilled me in regards to anything related to electoralism in this current system. Maybe that's just a one off, but I just don't know.
I dunno either. The whole thing feels hopeless, that you just want to throw your hands up in the air and give up and just hold on for a revolution. I think ultimately electoralism needs to be just another tool in an arsenal of weapons.
Yeah idk dawg. I'll fully admit that I'm a bit more on the doomer side. I think even if you could get some type of electoral movement going, the way congress is designed, any drastic changes would take a hella long time. I still don't think many people understand the gravity of the climate situation at this point. We just don't have that much time.
Chomsky was getting stick from the left earlier when he said something to the effect that capitalism will basically have to solve the issue of climate change. I don't think his point was that capitalism was the right ideology for this or anything - more that the upheaval of capitalism would take far longer than it would take to just come up with some cookie cutter solutions to at least make sure the market lives. There's a vested interest for these ghouls to keep people alive, IN THEORY. However, I'm not sure Chomsky understands how insatiable these greedy fucks are and that's always been his blind spot.
Chapos need to read Blood In My Eyes! All these beloved politicians around here are just trying to fucking do reform!! Do we even need to discuss this :huey-wut:
