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I can't stand all the fucking doomer takes itt. I'm so fucking tired of all this brainwormed nonsense everywhere, i need to log off.
unsure of the temperature of this take, but i don't think discussing passing and more broadly, interrogating physical characteristics in a negative or just a gendered light online can ever really be productive. it's kinda just an inevitable slide into tttt brainworms and self hatred posting when those topics get brought up in public forums like this. to expand I guess, giving advice on stuff like hair removal is one thing but some discussion more recently has been a few steps from like, lamenting skull shapes and stuff. that's a little hyperbolic, but I think you get my drift. it's not healthy to air that out in this kind of space.
fwiw, this is a problem that any online space centred around transness has a big potential to run into and I think the mods and rules here largely do a good job preventing it from festering too much. all I would say is please continue to keep a keen eye on that. the most revolutionary thing we can do here is foster trans joy and self love.
I would go as far to say the concept of passing is the mind-killer and people need to be encouraged to try to move past it. i know that can be a monumental task for some people but wanting to get there is the first step. some people (not indirecting anyone on this forum I promise) who have those brainworms fail to recognise that it's even a bad thing, and that's then a real problem.
side effect of disallowing selfies for personal safety is we dont have to touch transtimelines brainworms with a 50 foot pole
Thankful for that
This is a cold ass take, but still too spicy for some
/hj
Well especially with the sick system crabs-in-a-bucket mentality that anyone who thinks you look good is merely a hun or whatever
Dead cold take and I agree with sneak, some people need to chill and
sometimes
you can just say me, I'm probably just gonna go back to /tttt/ honestly.
for your own wellbeing i am begging you never to go there again. yes, you were doing some of the doomer posting I noticed. people are pushing back on what you're saying because they care about you and want you to get better and stop this psychological self-harm through posting, it's not pointless scolding.
I honestly just don't think I can jive with a trans space where you can't even talk about the full experience of being trans including the bad without being accused of "ruining the vibes or whatever" or where you are just some unhealthy misguided moron if you want to pass and have to be reeducated.
you are just putting words in my mouth now as well as other comrades, which I don't appreciate. I am sorry for the indirect (which i admit I did do in my first paragraph. later I earnestly stated I was not talking about you when I spoke about passing) but frankly I didn't say any of that shit about you. I urge you to log off and do something more fulfilling with your time for a while until you're feeling better. you were advised to log off for being overly negative hours ago and you're still trawling the thread picking fights. fwiw you were doing a lot more than just illuminating the bad parts of being trans, you were acting combative and being mean to other users in response to people stating uncontroversial truths such as "cis women sometimes get misgendered". that aside, if what you want to do is wallow in negativity and not have anyone push back on that I think most would agree this isn't the place, yeah.
if you guys wanna wallow in positivity and not have anyone push back then yeah maybe this isn't the place for me.
Its not about 'wallowing in positivity', some people are in genuinely good spots and improving despite the awful things in this country. Its important to use spoiler tags properly so that these people don't get messed up, because this state can be tenuous. Its not 'realist' to be constantly negative, all it does is hurt yourself. How you can improve is material change and community, which are IRL things. If you need help with either of those, please message me, I have a big network I can draw on.
spoiler
And just to point out, I've been through some terrible, terrible things. But I can feel happy now. A lot of this is healing over time, being deeply entwined with my local trans community, and building a found family. I've been on the edge more times than I can count. Healing is a slow fucking process, and its very important to be respectful of everyone's current stage in healing.
I personally disagree with the implication that there's an enforced "toxic positivity" or whatever on here. negative and sensitive topics are discussed every mega. respectfully I feel you took it to an unacceptable level by picking fights with people trying to make you feel better and refusing to take anything said in response to you on board as a matter of course, even pushing back against simple truths. i really don't mean to sound cruel but it's a fair summation that you were spreading tttt brainworms. the types of trans spaces I like to be in are ones where that shit doesn't fly.
You dont have to fake it til you make it, you just need to consider how what you poat affects other people, and liberally use the spoiler tag
Tap for spoiler
You can be as sad as you like in the spoliers, people are still going to read it
i'm not going to pretend Im positive, like ever
i know theres a few new people around, i encourage everyone to have a look over the https://hexbear.net/code_of_conduct
There are people here who do understand and also care about you and don't want you to go too far, but you have to respect others in the space. Try to take a break if you can and come back when your head clears a bit. Stay offline or do some self care or something until you feel a bit better don't go back to 4ts, you know it's not good there, you can come back and talk about things with a level head, just try to calm down and not make snap judgements because you're upset.
you were clearly correct. I think people here just have very different worms than you do
"Clearly correct" is when you just say the same thing over and over and then call people delusional. It's wrong.
Is something less true if it's repeated? I don't understand your point. I don't even think she was being particularly repetitive either
How is saying "they literally dont they literally dont they literally dont" not repetitive?
But okay, pick up Tomboymoder's argument then: what is the innate womanness that cis women have which allows them to just WAKE UP THAT WAY that trans women do not have?
There is no such thing as "innate womanness," but obviously very few cis women put effort into appearing female. That is simply how their bodies and mannerisms will be viewed by others by in their default state. It's correct to say that most cis women have to put effort into appearances, but the vast majority of those that don't will still be seen as female 99% of the time. You're trying to convince her that there's an equivalency between this and what she experiences when there's not. Cis women don't put effort into "being girls," which is what her comment was about.
She said that her sisters still effortlessly pass as women after waking up, which is obviously correct, and someone said this was "a couple steps away from doing phrenology," which is absolutely absurd. It's not a fair comparison at all, and she was at least more correct to recognize this than to think that she's seen the same way as her sisters
You dodged the question, though - I'm interested in what you see as the essential woman-ness of her sisters that she lacks.
The difference is if my sisters don’t put effort into their hair, don’t do make up, throw on a pair of baggy clothes and don’t shave the little amount of facial hair on their lip they have enough of the other traits we deem “female” that no one is gonna think they are a dude.
I don’t understand why this is controversial? I’m not an idiot, I know intersex people exist, I understand some woman have some traits more associated with the other gender.
None of that changes what I said.
Right, so like... you have more facial hair than them? That's the innate difference?
Like what else would make people think you are a dude but not your sisters?
My body, my face, my voice.
Well, you can change your voice... but wait, your body? So this is truly you blasting your dysphoria at people aggressively?
You gotta realise that there are cis women with faces or bodies much like yours though, surely.
I don’t know if we can have a conversation if you can’t admit that the vast majority of cis women have a majority of traits people associate with females. They don’t have to have literally all of them, but they all do (for the most part) have enough that they aren’t gonna look like men if they slack on a beauty regiment.
Uh, sure I can. Less facial hair, generally wider hips, longer hair, shorter arms? These are associated as "female" whether or not they actually are.
What's the thresshold of "enough female traits"?
I’m not gonna scientifically quantify it and play your stupid game where because I can’t down to the exact percentage I am wrong.
We both know what I am talking about we both know what I mean. For trans woman the balance of traits is different and often leaning in the other direction so every little thing you can do to alter that matters in a way it just doesn’t to cis woman.
Right, so do you see where people draw the phrenology comparison? Your own rules for the game, here. You specified.
Um this is far from being a universal truth. Like on average, sure, maybe amab people are gonna have more masc traits since they've been on testosterone... but that is what estrogen is for. It's pretty good ag feminising.
I know "what you mean and are talking about" insofar as that you are dysphoric and not getting gendered correctly, but not so much "this is cope" "you are delusional" "a woman looks like a woman no matter what". You have been saying some incorrect and shitty stuff, at other people, where this could have been a spoilered vent instead or something.
I’m done with you
Okay, I hope you feel better soon
Thank you
absolutely
cw: some self-loathing and maybe internalized transphobia depending on your viewpoint
Honestly, I do often wish I had just been born differently and didn't have to go through so much effort just to feel like myself. I'm glad there are so many people here who love being trans, but while I don't feel any shame about it and it's definitely part of my identity, I don't think I could ever say I prefer living this way. I don't know if that's how you feel, but I wanted to get it out there, because while the positivity here is mostly a good thing, I feel like it gets to be too much sometimes
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Please don't do that to yourself, you genuinely deserve better than that
Everybody needs to vent at times and i'm not saying people shouldn't do that. I know how much good it can do to just write something down and hit reply to yell into a void, getting all these notifications in my inbox this morning makes me feel really hard how much a hug from some random internet trans stranger can pull at my heartstrings, and i'm not saying anything against that. We need to look out for each other, and we need a room to air some things out. That's not the problem.
What fucking gets at me is when people can't take help or advice and go into this 4chan incel mode of insisting on how their suffering is an inherent part of their existence that will never go away. And i had waaaaayyy more of that yesterday than i could handle. I had to mute the vent channel on my biggest trans discord because
tons of dysphoria, misogyny, SA
this girl was just going full hog on the self loathing. You know the type, already looked girly before transitioning, very conventionally attractive aside from the dead eyes, ofc perfectly passing and then she goes on this giant posting spree of "HRT does nothing for me, i've drawn lines on the before and after pics and overlayed them, i can objectively prove that i've had zero effects from 20 months on E yadda yadda yadda." (in case i need to mention this, you could tell at first glance this was all bs) And after that, after half a dozen people spent half of the day trying to lift her up and talk some sense into her and offer support and reassurance, posts about how much she hates being in trans spaces because it gets her down when people talk about their problems. That was after some girl posted about barely getting out of an SA attempt at pride.
So yeah, that was kinda upsetting. One more person on my block list, whatever. And then i come here for some relaxing shitposting with my trans comrades, see the /tttt/ thread and even the unspoilered stuff is more than i can take in that situation. Like, i know it gets better, i know there's room to thrive and feel joy for us and to go out and live our best lifes, i'm doing that as hard as i can rn, and i wish i could give some of that hope to others, but how do you do that when somebody is completely brainwormed? How do you start unpacking that kind of burden? How do i get through to people? I can't handle that very well. And when i can't handle a situation, i have to pull myself out of it and touch some grass, it's all i can do.
Yeah. I should probably do the same. Take care of yourself.
So much can be solved or at least help people feel better if they just had a trans support group irl, like anywhere from questioning to all the way out
cuddling the sad out is the most viable form of therapy, imo
free platonic cuddles for everyone! no comrade left behind!
Yeah that too!
did not realize you were referencing something specific and shitty, sorry about that
this is a rude way to go about talking to people early in their transition who are expressing things many of us have felt before, especially when they tag those thoughts using cw and spoilers. I get if it's not something you want to interact with (I don't personally read everyspoiler: dysphoriapost), but this is a part of transitioning for many people and they are working on itIt was a lot more than that, had a user being aggressive and shitty about their brainworms in here. A comment got removed for a slur bypassing the filter. AcidSmiley isn't wrong to complain, it's one thing to spoiler dysphoric thoughts, and another to call people "delusional".
ahh definitely don't agree with putting those shitty thoughts on other people at all. fair enough, i'll edit
thank you, it means a lot actually