This may be the dumbest struggle session in the history of this site. Everyone voicing any kind of opinion about Hasan Piker needs to log off. I couldn't even figure out what the fuck any of you were talking about until like 3 threads in.
This is the first comment I saw opening the thread and it will be the last. Thank you for your service, and you're absolutely right, I really don't care lol not gonna read the debate
"A socialist can own the house they live in."
"No they can't."
"Yes they can."
x6000
Socialism is when you pay landlords in perpetuity for the privilege of living indoors instead of paying a bank for 30 years.
I'm a queen of garbage sitting on a throne of trash.
:comrade-raccoon:
I gotta say, this is my favourite struggle session so far. Bravo :rat-salute:
When you put it like that, I've gotta throw out a :rat-salute:
Is it happening on this site? I haven't seen it here, just Twitter.
You don't care about himbos!? And you call yourself a leftist.
This is the stupidest struggle session in Hexbear history, a record which will be broken by every subsequent struggle session in Hexbear history
You're welcome
I truly don't understand how or why this has escalated into a struggle session
This doesn't have anything to do with tossing car batteries into the ocean
The car battery is at the bottom of the crab bucket to weigh it down.
:marx-joker: :joker-che: :joker-gaming: :joker-troll: :joker-dancing:
Jokes on you, I inherited my gran's house that she was given by a (since deposed) communist government. I'm also the only person in my circle of friends that owns a house, wonder why.
It's classist of you to explain to me that it's classist of me to explain that to you.
What point exactly do you think you're making here? A good socialist shouldn't know how loans work?
The point I was making is that they sound incredibly classist. Thank you for your inquiry.
Knowing that you can buy a house on mortgage isn't uniquely bourgeois. In fact that's the only way most working people can even dream of owning a home.
These mfers really in this thread like gommunism no toothbrush unironically :chairman-moa:
Knowing what a mortgage is makes you classist? Mortgages are a layaway plan for housing. The ultra wealthy buy their homes in cash lol
It's classist to know about financing because only rich people need loans
You're on a website where we literally have users ask for help with food money on a semi routine basis... Many of us have physical / mental disabilities that pretty much guarantee we'll never be able to own homes. Maybe bragging about how smart you are in that context isn't the best look.
I work two jobs and am housing insecure go virtue signal in another thread sweetie.
Yeah I'm a fucking genius for knowing mortgages exist and people don't pay for houses up front. That is really normal to know. Being able to own a home has nothing to do with knowing the bare basics of how they're normally bought. This isn't some complex aspect of financing that only people who have gotten it may know, it's that mortgages exist.
You are being classist against eight year olds now. Yikes.
:BibleThump:
They don't actually because most public schools don't teach financial literacy beyond how to balance a checkbook.
This is of course the only place anyone ever heard about the core concepts of mortgages.
Or to have known a single home or car owner ever or wondering how people buy houses if they cost so much
"Poors must be so dumb they don't understand common concepts without participating with them directly."
Where are these poor people that have never met someone who has to make car payments or has credit card debt? The fucking housing crisis was caused by predatory loans to an extent because banks fucking love keeping people in long term debt, it was big news. For fucks sake, you don't need to be a wall street broker to know what a fucking mortgage is. Maybe stop imagining some rural peasant hexbear poster who lives in a thatched roof cottage to be concerned about.
:sweat:
"p-please mister chapo, I'm but a simple country hexbear poster."
Just came to me but the two storey bungalow next to my parents' place in a buttfuck no where suburb sold for 1.5 million. Seems like he got a really good deal on the place.
My folk's place is basically identical and they got it for 200k in 2002. Housing market indeed go brrr
This thread has "boomers not knowing the cost of anything" energy and I'm here for it.
The original comment was "lol people don't know how mortgages work" which is actually very different from where you moved the goalposts "people don't know mortgages exist" because you know I'm right about financial literacy and the comment sounding kind of classist. We're done here though this is clearly a waste of time.
Yes, I'm moving the goal post here. The amount that you would need to know how mortgages work is that it's a loan you pay back over time, which is the core concept, which unless you're trying really really hard to have something to argue against is tantamount to knowing they exist. Glad you're done tho
I actually didn't know how mortgages worked until I heard about this story and googled it. Should have said that sooner, but I forgo 💀
Fucking Chad move.
I don't know anything other than what I've already explained and that it's more complicated than that. I just know it's a loan that you pay back over time with interest. I've never opened Excel in my life, I don't know any of this briefcase shit.
Many of us have physical / mental disabilities that pretty much guarantee we’ll never be able to own homes
Neither will like 95% of us, even thise of us who aren’t struggling for food anymore.
what kind of lumpen subhuman vermin don't know the ins and outs of home ownership
Not posting is an option. Every day, we fail to take it. But it is an option.
rofl i seriously don’t get western leftists who attack people marginally better off than them compared to people in the global south
That was one of my first I thoughts about this as well. He could be screwing himself in the long run.
This has truly been my favorite part of this whole struggle session and it's not just here, literally every time I see people talking about this they throw around $3 million like that means Hasan is a multimillionaire paying for a house by writing a check
the thing to do is to let the crab climb out of the bucket and wave your little claw goodbye knowing that he will watch video of you being boiled alive and consumed on his crabphone from his nice house
Every leftist should live in a squat or a tent. If you live in an apartment or pay rent to a landlord, then you are a class traitor because you economically support landlords.
2.5 million dollars is a lot of money. While it is correct that you cannot own a nice house in LA for less than that, you do not have to own property in LA. You could spend a tenth of that to own a much nicer property elsewhere that you can travel to on weekends or whatever, if you both MUST work in LA and MUST own property.
2.5 million is a lot of money. It's a bad look.
2.5 million is a lot of money
It sure is. Did anyone not know Hasan was making bank? Why are we upset he is being paid well for his labor?
"To uphold socialism we must eliminate poverty. Poverty is not socialism."
-Deng Xiaoping :deng-smile:
Deng memes aside, there is no human reason why anybody should be dropping millions on a house in LA, particularly not at the moment, particularly if you are a public figure who might have reason to not want to look like a decadent and detached elite.
2.5 million dollars would be much much better spent on property by, I dunno, buying a piece of wilderness the literal size of Los Angeles and either keeping it that way or turning it into Hammer City But Good, or something. To drop it on just a house, for just you, is once again a bad look.
So your only real problem is that you think it looks bad. You think it's gauche for a self-proclaimed socialist to be wealthy and successful.
I believe it is gauche for a self-proclaimed socialist to spend 2.5 million dollars on a single residence in the city of Los Angeles.:yes-chad:
no youre the crying soy wojack not chad
Anyway, I don't think socialism is about a bunch of people tut-tutting over other people's successes and image-policing them. You told VeganVelveeta to put aside the Deng memes, but you should really absorb what Deng said there- Socialism is not poverty. There is nothing wrong with being successful.
There is nothing wrong with being successful.
*When you didn't get there by exploiting others (which isn't the case here).
I don't know (or really care) too much about this guy, but Twitch streaming has to be one of the lowest-exploitation ways to make money. Contrast it with starting a business and getting rich off the surplus value you aren't paying your employees, for instance.
"How much could a single residence in the city of Los Angeles cost? $500.00?"
Socialists aren't entitled to continue living in their home city, you see
Oh boy I have a reason to go fucking around on Zillow now!
IDK much about LA geography so maybe this place is in a shit neighborhood, but a bit over 500k gets you this fairly comfortable looking townhouse
For just under 500k you can get a pretty nice condo
Seems like most of the actual houses though break a million at least, but if old Hasan was fine with a condo he could get some nice digs for under 750k
You know that people don't buy houses fully paid with cash up front right? Dude probably got a mortgage.
You know, I'm starting to think a lot of people in this thread don't know that.
Like, he'd probably have to lay down a few hundred grand up front which is nothing to sneeze at. Or he's on like a fifty year mortgage cause his credit was really good.
I dunno about you but if I had millions of dollars I think I might not continue to generate wealth for Jeff Bezos.
"How much could 1 Twitch cost? Surely the amount Twitch has paid a single streamer."
I started to napkin math this but it was getting out of control fast.
The numbers I'm using are 39,057 average viewers and 77,627 peak viewers assuming 1080p 30fps requiring 167.615 GB/s average and 333.139 Gb/s peak.
How to implement this is sensibly is well beyond my knowledge but I guess you could load balance it over 35 or so 10 Gb/s dedicated servers but you'd already be looking at over $30k/month (I only looked at ovh) with almost all of the capacity being wasted since he doesn't stream all day and will not always be at peak viewership. I don't want to think about DDOS.
Would love to hear from someone who knows how to scale this in a non-stupid way.
Probably it can only make sense to make a streaming site as a cooperative of streamers :RIchard-D-Wolff:
You do know how buying a house works right? At most the luscious himbo put down like 400k.
That's still a lot, but it's not like he has enough to be independently wealthy. :vivian-shrug:
Unpaid Interns aren't exploited, because its voluntarily.
:ancap-good:
not really relatable. unpaid internships are usually done as some bullshit exercise to get free labor under the guise that they might later be hired. a voluntary internet cop knows full well their job is and always will be unpaid, and voluntary. if they're not okay with that, they don't have to be an internet cop. it's not difficult.
Any source on exploiting mods or other staff? I haven't heard of that.
Literally nobody pays their mods and if they did they'd be bragging about it. They're textbook exploited labor.
Edit: I forgot about this also
https://www.reddit.com/r/Hasan_Piker/comments/e1ibqe/hasan_exploited_my_labour_for_youtube_videos/
Apparently he ended up paying the guy.
So he paid the other guy, good. He should pay his mods too if he doesn't.
I'd do it to know that I was keeping a little piece of the biosphere alive instead of BUYING A BIG FUCKING HOUSE IN LOS ANGELES
I did. I own a small piece of land and I live on it as a mentally ill recluse and tend it. If you paid attention to my very good posting you would know this by now.
A 2.5m dollar mansion and an iPhone are the same thing actually.
This debate ultimately boils down to what level of luxury is allowable.
To the capitalist, every luxury of the worker seems to be reprehensible, and everything that goes beyond the most abstract need – be it in the realm of passive enjoyment, or a manifestation of activity – seems to him a luxury.
Invite Steve Baldwin and Pauly Shore into your biosphere. Hijinks ensue.
I think him buying a house outside of LA and traveling to it every weekend while also renting a tiny apartment in LA would probably be LESS ecologically sustainable than him just getting a place in LA.
Idk how decadent the place he got is, LA is expensive but I imagine even there 2.5 mil house is pretty swanky. You are maybe right he could have just gotten a cozy bungalow for like 750k and to keep his lefty cred.
"It's a bad look" is no reason to consign yourself from ever owning a home in the city you live in.
no he should buy 2 thousand acres of undeveloped land and live there instead like all the true socialists posting here.
:big-cool:
unironic upvote. An incredible amount of biodiversity could be preserved with that money. but I know, I know, he clap doesn't clap owe clap you clap anything
lmao love to effectively agitate by isolating myself from all of society
Also
An incredible amount of biodiversity could be preserved with that money
Hasan Piker hates nature. You heard it here first.
it is in fact possible to own land in one place and work in another
"He should commute from an isolated mountain compound into Los Angeles every day for work to prove he loves socialism."
I would simply use the bountiful public transit LA is well known for.
it is in fact possible to own land in one place and live in another. hey did you know that all those rich people who own many pieces of land don't have to live everywhere simultaneously? some manner of dark magic I guess
did you know that all those rich people who own many pieces of land don’t have to live everywhere simultaneously?
So Hasan should own multiple pieces of land now? I've always wanted a lake house, I wonder if he's single.
Owning 1 house: bad class traitor
Owning multiple houses: based and good
Liberalism in this thread so thicc you could cut it w/ a knife
Trying to cancel a dude for owning a house is hella :LIB:, I agree.
I only respect people that don't pay rent, sorry. There's no reason to support rent seeking landlords WHEN YOU CAN LIVE OFF THE LAND IN THE WOODS
:a-guy:
I love everyone on this site, even the ones I'm arguing with right now. Damn this comment section is spicy tho.
Everybody better be able to walk out of here friends or I swear to god I will vegan post.
:soviet-huff:
He should do "Hammer City but good" which sounds totally Marxist and not utopian
I'm sure the commune founded by a twitch streamer will definitely make socialism look good and not end like some abominable offspring of CHAZ and Fyre Festival
If you're not ready to found a big himbo commune before buying a house for your family then you're a liberal cmv
He should buy undeveloped land and hand it to us. Our exploits will generate content for his streams.
It is if you're interested in being a good influence on your babyleft audience, or appearing ideologically consistent. If you just want to be a rich twitch streamer then you do you. I, personally, would not make his choices.
2.5 million is a lot of money.
It's not a small amount. But other than guaranteeing his personal economic security, what does it get him?
What is he supposed to be doing with an unusually large pile of fuck-around cash?
That should never have happened to your dad, I'm sorry. Other workers earning higher wages isn't why we're getting less.
It’s not wrong, but in this case the comparison is between two people living in the imperial core, so it’s not applicable.
That resentment towards other workers can be used against you by the wealthy.
Yeah but for real, streamers are not workers. Streamers are self employed (typically).
Not if you don't have employees.
Also a twitch streamer who makes their money off streaming basically works for twitch
Ummm no being petite bourgeois has nothing to do with having employees.
Also a twitch streamer who makes their money off streaming basically works for twitch
No. That's almost like saying they work for microsoft because you watch them on windows.
It very much does. If I knit shirts and sell shorts it's my labor value being put into the product, I'm not exploiting someone. This is super basic Marxism. A sustenance farmer who can sell a surplus isn't a capitalist.
Sigh. Just look it up, whatever. For real, just look up "petite bourgeois" or something like that and find out what it means. It seems like no one on this site knows what it means for some reason. The shirt example is literally what it was made to describe, part of it anyways.
Hasan doesn't own the means of production. He needs twitch's platform to make a living. It's basically the same as freelance work as far as relationship between he and the means of production go. A worker who owns their own means of production is just someone who makes shit.
Hasan is not an employee of Twitch lol he just basically "rents" a platform. It's kinda like someone renting a building for their convenience store, or a doctor renting the apartment they use as their office, except the price a streamer pays is smaller.
A worker who owns their own means of production is just someone who makes shit.
Yes, he does "make shit", he makes streams, that's why people give him money, to make shit. They give money to him, he doesn't get a wage from Twitch, Twitch just gets a small cut. Something similar happens with advertisers. Twitch's employees are not the streamers (who could just migrate to some other platform anyways somewhat easily), they are the ~6000 actual employees of the company. The streamers are basically just collaborators of the platform. And it's by definition petite bourgeois.
...by the marxist definition of petite bourgeois? Can people read anything? It was a category originally made to describe semi autonomous peasants, artisans crafting products and selling them, small scale merchants and owners who may employ someone but also work alongside their workers. The important distinction is that these people are not doing wage labour, and they're not employed by anyone, unlike the working class, but also they are small scale enough that they aren't removed from the process of production like the bourgeois who are capable of employing a large number of people. For some reason people here seem to think employing someone is a condition. It is not a condition, in fact the more people they employ the closer they are to regular bourgeois. I don't understand how so many people here complaining about this. Does your favorite streamer have a boss? No. Do they receive a wage? No. Are they employed by someone in general? No, they are self employed. Who is primarily responsible for the content they put out? Them. How do they get paid? Profit from the content they produce. They're not workers. They are petite bourgeois. Of course this is taken as a slur here and not an actual social category so it makes some people upset but it is what it is.
The feudal aristocracy was not the only class that was ruined by the bourgeoisie, not the only class whose conditions of existence pined and perished in the atmosphere of modern bourgeois society. The medieval burgesses and the small peasant proprietors were the precursors of the modern bourgeoisie. In those countries which are but little developed, industrially and commercially, these two classes still vegetate side by side with the rising bourgeoisie. In countries where modern civilisation has become fully developed, a new class of petty bourgeois has been formed, fluctuating between proletariat and bourgeoisie, and ever renewing itself as a supplementary part of bourgeois society.
-Communist manifesto
No one had fought more fanatically in the June days for the salvation of property and the restoration of credit than the Parisian petty bourgeois – keepers of cafes and restaurants, marchands de vins [wine merchants], small traders, shopkeepers, handicraftsman, etc. [...] Salvation of property! But the house they lived in was not their property; the shop they kept was not their property; the commodities they dealt in were not their property. Neither their business, nor the plate they ate from, nor the bed they slept on belonged to them any longer. It was precisely from them that this property had to be saved – for the house-owner who let the house, for the banker who discounted the promissory note, for the capitalist who made the advances in cash, for the manufacturer who entrusted the sale of his commodities to these retailers, for the wholesale dealer who had credited the raw materials to these handicraftsman. Restoration of credit! But credit, having regained strength, proved itself a vigorous and jealous god; it turned the debtor who could not pay out of his four walls, together with wife and child, surrendered his sham property to capital, and threw the man himself into the debtors’ prison, which had once more reared its head threateningly over the corpses of the June insurgents.
The petty bourgeois saw with horror that by striking down the workers they had delivered themselves without resistance into the hands of their creditors
-The Class Struggles in France
There's not many places where he just has a dictionary type definition, there's many things like that however in many places in his writings.
The distinction between streamers and workers is pretty clear though. I wouldn't even say they rely entirely on Amazon. They could and often do migrate to other platforms and they are often not even payed through Twitch, but other means, and there is basically no oversight beyond just following a few rules. Importantly, they are not paid a wage, they make profit, and Amazon simply gets a cut of that (if they even are paid through Twitch and aren't using some other source like Patreon). That is different from working for a company where all profit goes to the company, but then you are paid back a wage. A lot of the things that come with being working class, like alienation from your labor etc, do not apply. So streamers, youtubers etc are definitely petite bourgeois, not working class, they are part of the intermediate classes between workers and the bourgeois. A streamer making bank on twitch doesn't have the same experiences nor typically the same interests as a worker. For instance, laws for better employee protection are at best indifferent, at worst hurtful to them (in case they are employing or considering to employ someone), as are taxes on profit, and they sure wouldn't be happy if they lost all that ad revenue.
They are effectively employed by the platforms they stream on and are paid through. They can even get fired (banned) if they piss off the bosses.
They're not employed by platforms. They don't get paid a wage, they are effectively just renting out a space, only it is even looser than that.
Streamers are self employed in the same way uber drivers are self employed
BUYS A TWO MILLION HOUSE IN LOS ANGELES TALKING INTO A FUCKING CAMERA
Can't believe this could happen in a place like... checks notes Hollywood.
What do you mean by "support" here? Like stan? Or buying their products? Unless you pirate 100% of your entertainment you've probably "supported" Hollywood at some point in your life.
idk how that makes you dislike online personalities? like if you could make money streaming wouldn’t you?
a dude providing entertainment to hundreds of thousands is not somehow below another worker lol. sounds pretty close to an anti sex worker take
yeah your dad got fucked and exploited, but your answer to that should be attacking the people who did that, not another worker who found a way to elevate their material wealth, in a “privileged” manner
Nobody's asking you to support them, just seems weird to get pissy at a guy for doing well for himself at a profession that doesn't exploit anyone, at least not directly
Wow! I'm so glad everyone liked my meme. I'm off to go on a date with a himbo I met on a dating app. Bye everyone, see you later!
Edit: Himbo was late. I'm really going now.
Himbo was late
that's how you know they're the real deal, no real himbo is ever on time
