Is there any set of circumstances where dems would ever take meaningful, organized action against The Party?
Man, federation really is reminding me of Reddit, every bozo with 10 fingers and roughly enough braincells to work them keeps popping in on every political post now that we're approaching election season
'How dare you make a post critical of my team, you're supposed to hate conservatives moarrrr, NOOOOOOoooOOO you're going to help THEM WIN'
Or we get the
'oh, Biden ACSHUALLY did all these things (provides list of bills which materially helped nobody here and in some instances actively made people's lives worse)'Biden made a campaign promise and failed to follow through on it. He lied.
Like he did about helping codify Roe, like he did about stemming COVID, like he did about making immigration humane (all he did was pass an EO making sure 'alien' got changed to 'migrant') (and hell his AG fought to have the ability to detain 'migrants' indefinitely), like he did about gun violence, like he did about healthcare reform, like he did about infrastructure, like he did about climate change, like he did about everything
'Oh he's not a king' bitch he can unilaterally pass EOs, and then it's up to courts to determine if they're permitted or not (and he can ignore them and order federal officials to uphold them anyway, ask Andrew Jackson and the Cherokee, Muscogee, Seminole, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Ponca and Ho-Chunk/Winnebago peoples)
'Oh but then conservatives could abuse that power' they don't already? And you're going to use that as an excuse to never do anything better?
You're sitting in a lake of piss moaning about how nothing can get better instead of...trying to get out of the piss lake
Libs don't understand how coalitions work. In a real coalition you have to give something real to your junior partner; which the assumed position of the left in America, even if based on polling a majority of voters support socdem policies.Their promise to the left is that they won't let things get worse! This both isn't a actual concession as well as a lie! So fuck them, libs want a deal? Then push your monstrous leadership to give us something or fuck off, its not my job to be you people's moral conscience.
"If Republicans are going to do what you're saying, then Biden should Order 66 the entire Republican Party."
But him and Bernie are giving each other handies watching from the corner (nothing wrong with cuckoldry, unless y'know it's actual politics...)
If they really gave a shit they would have done it on January 7th. Instead, their most spineless sychophants demand that I be the one to give a shit instead. Like clapping for Tinkerbell, they can't stop the other team unless you believe!
Right? If someone tries to do a coup you line them up and shoot them, then lay a trap for the next set of coup plotters!
Like they do to...oh, I don't know, Black socialists who speak out against war. Liberals' fear about how bad it would be if Democrats actually decided to take action against Republicans is literally already what they do to leftists. The world they claim to be terrified of is the world we are already living in, and supporters of this status quo fascism have just happily helped pull the blinders down over their own eyes.
Word. Sums up my thoughts on the matter of "uwu smol bean powerless joe" perfectly. It's pathetic hwo allergic libs are to weilding power.
Well, they're happy to wield power against us (Occupy, Ferguson, election shenanigans against the Green Party, etc.). They're just "allergic" to it when it's against their supposed "enemies across the aisle". This is one of the big things that makes it so clear that there's only one party: the Business Party, or Liberal Party, or whatever you want to call it.
Can we make this an automod response to vote scolding? This was 🔥 🔥 🔥
'Oh he's not a king'
Then why were y'all freaking out about Trump so much? If he has the power to fuck shit up so badly why can't Biden un-fuck it?
Is there any set of circumstances where dems would ever take meaningful, organized action against The Party?
If The Party were to even speak of supporting communism, dems would immediately revolt
No, because Dems aren't meaningfully organized in the first place. It's not really a Party, it's an extremely loose alliance of convenience.
Organized in the sense it's there to destroy any attempts at actual progress by only allowing centrist policies or bare minimum
The Democratic Party is the tech, finance, real estate, and military industry in a trench coat.
IDK i'd definitely call the DNC/democrats a party, considering they gatekeep who is allowed to be part of it and is run by the white house when a dem is present
the DNC who decide which candidates get the money run a pretty consistent line, it's just not meaningfully connected to what the candidates say they're about.
Word. I doubt more than a few percent of Americans even know what a political party is.
Is there any set of circumstances where dems would ever take meaningful, organized action against The Party
If you mean establishment Dems, they would take quick, ruthless action against anything that would threaten the police state or US imperialism abroad
I'll institute a fair income based repayment program so you aren't crushed by negative amortization and if you're making only twice the federal minimum wage you pay nothing
Addressing student loans was unironically a huge W from Joey Brandon
If Biden were to win, he would have an impetus to actually fucking fix something for once. Obviously this contradicts his need for obstruction, so I'd be surprised if he's actually trying to win. He knows he's likely to survive unrest.
Democratic party voters are so whipped compared to Republican party voters. R's are legit terrified of their voters, and have to follow through with their shitty culture war desires or get thrown out of office. Sure, they screw over their voters too... but it's only because their voters like the ways they screw them over.
I have long said: If the Republican party didn't exist, we would have to invent it. And while it may not feel that way today, the Republican party must exist to provide a terrifying villain for our voters. And I promise you: We're going to do everything in our power to make sure that it will be.
I am pleased and proud of the amount of education/violence that has grown from this post.
I love you, my comrades!
Today we're blaming Democrats for being blocked by Republicans?
It's so funny, every election cycle of my existence on this planet has been "republican gets elected, does whatever they want, democrat gets elected, it's soooo hard to pass laws :(", repeat ad nauseum. I have this uncanny ability known as "pattern recognition".
Yup. Maintaining the status quo is easier than changing it. Even the tiny little bit Democrats try to change.
Yup. Maintaining the status quo is easier than changing it. Even the tiny little bit Democrats try to change.
Why was Trump able to make so many changes? Was it because he was a better statesman than Biden?
The only people believing that Trump is actually a master of deal making is the Republicans and Blue no matter who peeps.
Reminds me of how people keep going on about the charisma of Hitler.
Even the tiny little bit Democrats try to change.
they don't "try to change", they expand on conservative policies while pretending that doing good things is impossible. They are controlled opposition. I'm tired of having this conversation every 4 years.
Just look at Israel. The Democratic party Hulked the fuck out, closed ranks, and absolutely shattered any and all opposition to the genocide. They are more than capable of exercising massive political power but for some reason they only ever do it for terrible things and never for "that great thing that they weawwy weawwy want if it wasn't for those mean ol' Republicans."
So fucking cool that my "harm reduction" vote has reduced so much fucking harm, I love it, a lot!!
Dont you libs hate Trump so much because he did some bad things? Did he not do things? Was it just the status quo you're so mad about?
I remember when Biden first got in and Libs were saying he was a smol bean and us Chad leftists were pointing this out about Trump I saw several Libs saying "well to be honest Trump really didn't achieve THAT MUCH while in office."
Okay so you're admitting you just didn't like the guy cuz he was a uncivil dang cheeto?
Why are you dodging the questions and instead trying to turn this into a dumb semantic argument? Could it be that a liberal has nothing of value to say? Boy, that'd sure be a first!
Since you evidently don't understand how the government works, both Congress and the Senate have to pass a bill for it to become law. The Senate is intentionally designed to give conservatives more power.
I was going to vote for Biden but now I won't because you acted with such brutal incivility. This is the most important election of our lives; democracy itself is on the ballot and you are turning people away from the polls before they've even opened. You are handing Trump the keys to the White House; you are ushering in the dark tide of fascism. Enjoy the next election, you have made it our last.
Yeah, it’s call a bicameral legislature. I was filling out my elementary school study guide, so I appreciate the reminder.
The Senate is intentionally designed to give conservatives more power.
Huh, sounds like an indefensibly stupid and evil system we have here when millions of lives are on the line. Best to throw it out.
Doesn't understand that liberal politicians only exist as controlled opposition to conservatives
"You don't understand how government works"
lmao
Why's Biden 'negotiating' title 42 back into existence for them then? Why did he never codify Roe like he said he would, or completely fold on COVID when he could have taken numerous steps well within the 'acceptable' periphery of the powers of his office to do so?
Maybe they're just another corporatist party that keeps the mask on a bit better in public (as long as it's not an N95 one, anyway)
The Senate is intentionally designed to give conservatives more power.
Hun sounds like a really bad system, someone should change that
The Supreme Court of the United States has already ruled that the president can extrajudicially murder american citizens, and that the Court does not have authority to overrule the President's decisions on who they place on their terrorist watch list, AND that the president can drone strike those on the list without any input from Congress or the Courts. This means that any American citizen can at any point be murdered for being in the way of the President / Executive branch entirely legally. I dare you to find a more compelling political argument than "I can have your entire family incinerated from the heavens and you literally cannot defend yourself against that".
I love my fellow hexbears. This is the only place on earth people understand this point and will bring it out to hammer in how much unrestricted power the potus has!
If he can do nothing then why is this failure demanding to be rewarded with another term when people's lives are on the line? How many times must he and his party fail while blocking any alternative before you admit that this is intentional?
This is one of the most frustrating things.
They really need to pick either "Biden is the only person who can stop fascism" or "Biden literally doesn't have the Blower to do anything"
Cus when they're still saying the second one as fascism rises it makes me doubt the first one.
It doesn't matter if it's intentional (and what does intent even mean when you're talking about so many people), what matters is this is the best result you're going to get out of Democrats at this point. A speedbump on the way to worse things, unless they're doing the worse things already.
So Trump is some genius politician who is able to use the presidency to make the USA a dictatorship but widdle Biden just doin his heckin best in an unfair world, not his fault he couldn’t do even the smallest things he promised.
Your world view requires holding two contradictory thoughts about the power of a president at the same time while mine is far simpler: Biden lied to you.
There is a much simpler and more cogent explanation than your grand conspiracy.
Biden doesn’t actually give a shit about the issues he campaigns on and instead is all about big business and maintaining the corporate oligarchy.
Proof: he didn’t do ANYTHING about this crypto-fascist theocracy you’re worried about so maybe just maybe you should stop believing what he says and start looking at what he does.
And shit is anything this theocracy gonna do actually going to be worse than what Biden is supporting in Gaza? Complete moral bankruptcy. At least the nativist theocrats have an isolationist tendency.
Saying “but Trump will be worse” is nonsense compared to Genocide Joe.
If the theocrats are in charge already, regardless of President, like you believe then why vote for an old fool who has proven incapable of resisting them?
Even if your world view is correct, at best he’s powerless and you should demand someone better or at worst he is complicit and just lying to gullible progressives like yourself to give you the illusion of choice.
Own your shame, quit canning your comments.
Joe Biden is literally the one who is running guns to Israelis right now. We know neither party will support Palestine, but we're not delusional enough to pretend that maybe liberals will at some nebulous point down the road.
I feel compelled to add, since you seem particularly dim, that obviously no one here likes Trump. We all want them both to swallow a 12 gauge every day they're still alive.
What's that term you all love, whataboutism?
Biden the one currently supporting genocide in Gaza and using his presidential powers that you tell yourself he doesn’t have to funnel the bombs being used to commit genocide and the fact he lied about student loan forgiveness is a reason to support him?
What the fuck is your world view? How can anything be worse than supporting what is happening to Gaza? Im an evil Trump supporter because I am against genocide? Fucking libs.
So cool - you are Trump supporter then
Confident. In the zone. Owning these TRUMP SUPPORTERS, the worst insult you can imagine. Thinking they're triggered and you really gottem. Having no idea what anyone is talking about and asking no questions because blind faith in your genocidal oppressors is the only way you understand politics.
No, Trump doesn’t care about our system and neither do Republicans.
Neither do Democrats, they just use that excuse to do their feigned helplessness routine. But more importantly, who cares? "The system" is not holy, it is a nation-state and we should do everything we can to exert our collective power for liberation and human need, not worshipping "norms" or an oligarchy in robes.
They have a majority in the court which is the main check on presidential power.
Per the Constitution, the main check on presidential power is Congress, actually. The courts could be ignored at any time if the executive wanted to and it would be up to Congress to try and fight it.
However, this is pointlessly hypothetical. Biden et al don't even try to have these fights in the first place. It's not like we're looking at a string of successful and well-constructed policy fights that keep getting derailed at the last moment by the courts. We mostly see excuse making for why there's no attempt or patently foolish policies intended to fail in the courts.
Joe DID try to go around congress and got shut down by the conservative super majority.
You'd have to list the instance you're thinking of but if it's student debt relief he chose an overtly stupid rationale that was known to be such from the moment it was announced. Lawyers all went, "huh, that's stupid" and then went back to meditating megacorp takeovers.
They won’t shut Trump down because they want America to be a Christo-fascist state.
They shut down Trump repeatedly and kept him more or less within the same strictures. And Trump had great success in social spending using the pandemic. Oh, right, the global pandemic. Something Biden could've used to continue a national emergency to push through these kinds of things rather than what he actually did, which was to support the normalization of disease, a corrupt CDC leadership, and forcing people back to work in dangerous conditions.
Joe can’t do the same because he doesn’t have a friendly court or congress right now AND he is trying to play by the rules as he isn’t a fascist dictator like Trump is trying to become.
There are no rules lol. There's just power and who will enforce their claims. The government ignores "the rules" all the time and avoids repercussions. You will be thrown out of your rental for back rent, with cops pointing rifles at you, during an eviction moratorium, and your hearing with the judge will go terribly for you, despite your landlord, the cops, and the judge all breaking the law.
Anyways, Biden had Congress for half his term and did bad shit with it.
Last I heard, Democrats still do. So it’s an Apples and Oranges comparison. If Biden had the governmental situation Trump would in a second term, he could do what you propose - if he wanted to embrace authoritarianism.
Define authoritarianism without looking it up. Scout's honor.
And thus you are coopted into the system and all your good intentions are funneled into fighting against yourself and the people trying to build the alternative.
A series of faux-wonk stratagems, mostly about nonexistent rules or norms or Kabuki about Blue Dogs or whatever, that are intended to make the audience feel very smart and informed but are actually just PR firm-approved talking points that have been used for 50 years to keep you compliant and money flowing to and from the right people, genociding the "right" people, putting the "right" people's children in slavery and picking through garbage.
At some point you should notice the pattern and read a little more deeply than bullshit liberal talking points.
Anyways it's clear you prefer Reddit brain debate so let's try that. Surely you'll respond to that, right?
If someone else is out there who can plausibly beat Trump I’m happy to support them
I don't care how you vote. It especially doesn't matter for the presidency due to the electoral college and the fact that you are just one person. The point is to understand the nature of bourgeois electoralism and the fact that people have been buying this same line for 150+ years. You're treating it like politics is just a team sport of voting. This is a limited view of the political landscape that is intentionally sold to you lest you begin organizing with your fellow common humans to make demands.
It’s not one person’s failure though. Presidents have limited powers in our system.
Cool then why are you pissing yourself over Trump? You are maintaining an absurd contradiction by eating up partisan nonsense: presidents are weak babies that can't do anything when they're a Democrat and are dictatorial Hitlers out to take absolute power when Republican.
What would you have him do next that the Republicans and Centrists can’t counter?
Issue sweeping executive orders and fight hard for them. Play hardball with the party he is the head of. Democrats actually show you exactly what they can do when they punch left, they just choose not to against their supposed right flank. In reality, they prefer to have that right flank and keep them just at the point of preventing action with plausible deniability so that they don't need to run counter to their donors' interests.
You can't imagine a Democratic leader fighting hard for their promises because you're buying their feigned helplessness routine. But it's not really hard to imagine, is it?
I get the anger but unless that anger gets directed at something concrete to fix things, it’s screaming into the void.
Your anger is directed into spending a bunch of time thinking about how helpless your folks are and trying to explain Civics 101 to a bunch of communists that know more than you about it because you have no idea what people on the left think. And into voting, apparently? Sounds like a self-description.
We organize humans to implement on a more expansive definition of political action that includes workplace organizing, direct action, organizing parties and radical issue-focused groups, and occasionally socialist candidates for office.
What do you do?
Trump has a plan to implement authoritarianism in this country - conservatives run the courts and congress is impotent.
This country is already authoritarian and it starts with the dictatorship of your workplace where you get to choose between following orders or risking homelessness. Liberals don't even know what authoritarianism could mean beyond "a bad thing where the government orders bad things to happen" because, in terms of political sophistication, they are children with next to zero knowledge of history or world politics. To break out of this, they need to challenge the narratives handed down to them and begin reading histories and how the world functions.
If he gets in, we will see a major attempt at right wing authoritarianism in this country that we’ve never seen before. Unless people are willing to tear down the system, and all I can tell - the will isn’t there on the left, we need to do more than crucifying a president who did a lot more for progressive causes than the last 50 years of presidents.
Absolutely meaningless statements. Biden is an old-school Dem reactionary who made a name for himself by supporting credit card company interests and segregation, then writing the crime bill. He used his position of power in the Senate to launder a case for war on Iraq following the civilian-targeted sanctions the decade prior, helping to wipe out millions of Iraqis. As President he has primarily pulled back social spending, allowed Roe v. Wade to fall without even attempting any kind of fight (Dems want to use it to whip votes like yours), busted the rail strike, continued the full-pressure campaigns to stoke war in Ukraine and genocide in Yemen and Gaza, continued and escalated Trump's provocative policies towards China and Iran, and is even helping build more border wall while continuing large-scale internment and deportation policies, including against refugees. Biden is a right wing reactionary that the party tells you is "progressive" (whatever that means. Respect yourself and don't let them manipulate you like that.
Incidentally, while trying to do the Very Smart lib thing in being strategic by always carrying water for the people that fuck us over and pretend they can't do anything good, consider thinking past a single election cycle. When all you're offered is dogshit and you cheerlead for it, don't be surprised when the people who expect promised things to happen to withdraw their support and consent for you and yours, because they are the people with consistent and reasonable expectations and a far better political strategy. You're actually helping to build the conditions for full-throated fascism by ensuring that the only "opposition" will be one that is easily disposed of and becomes nearly unsupportable by the rest of the population. Joe Biden is the epitome of this and folks hate him. Ask yourself why you're trying to convince them to stop demanding something better. Ask yourself what happens the next election, and the one after that, and the one after that, if you're always backsliding and making excuses for material degradation of people's lives.
I am pissed too, but this meme is just a bad take.
Who are you pissed at?
Then he shouldn't have run his mouth. Anything that is promised as a campaign "I'll do this" that can't be followed through on should not be said. Since he did say it, since he did say a lot of shit that he absolutely reneged (like the arch-settler he is) on, I consider him an absolute fraud who doesn't deserve my support even before his carceral segregationism, his strike-breaking, his shouldn't-be-surprising-he's-a-settler taste for genocide, or whoever ends up squaring off with him.
Pretty sure he started his term with control of all 3 branches.
Not the Supreme Court -- you thinking of having control of both the House and Senate?
hm, who's fault was that. Why don't you tell me about Biden's track record with the supreme court?
I want him to actually force the opposition to vote and rule against him, rather than just give up prematurely because they might vote and rule against him. And when they do vote/rule against him, just do it again. Over and over until it's clear who the enemies of Americans really are.
Or go farther: just fucking ignore the Court. Go full on "the Court has made its decision, they are welcome to enforce it." What are they gonna do about it?
(He won't do that because it would undermine the legitimacy of both the Legislature and the Court, might collapse the government lol)
it would undermine the legitimacy of both the Legislature and the Court, might collapse the government
He resumed student loan payments via fiat and built the weakest case possible for forgiving loans. He is surrounded by climbers that specialize in policy fuckery.
Stop pretending the people you think are your team in the system are all incompetent or, worse, just trying their best. They fail deliberately for material reasons. The things you're saying are their flimsy excuses that you should feel insulted by.
Always remember - Biden personally created the student loan crisis, spearheading the laws that made it impossible to discharge or escape your student loans. The student debt crisis is one of his great policy achievements.
Ever notice that republican presidents are extremely dangerous threats to the entire world and dem presidents are tiny babies who can't be expected to accomplish a thing? Ever notice how whenever the dems have a trifecta, there's always juuuuuuust enough of their own party members fighting them to prevent any action?
Who is going to stop the president from ignoring a court order? Don't forget that the judicial branch firstly just made up their powers of judicial review, and have always relied on the executive branch for enforcement. I bring the up because Undermining the power of the supreme court is in and of itself a positive and democratic end, because the president is at least a little bit democratically accountable, while the supreme Court isn't in any way. To put it another way, an unelected council of lifetime appointees isn't a democratic institution. You are right that this isn't entirely genocide joes fault, the entire bourgeois "two party" regime is to blame. He is just the face of said regime
liberal
