seriously. it's not that big a deal. if people in gaza are still standing up to their oppressors every day then you likely have zero excuse for not doing more IRL shit (political reading and writing at home are good, but don't mean anything if you're not applying that theory as practice and then assessing the results and adjusting your practice accordingly).
So I'm not saying that encouraging people to go outside is bad by any means, but I think finding out why people can't or don't want to go outside is something we could probably do better at as a community. I don't think saying "it's not that big a deal" is nearly as useful as having a good discussion/plan on how to overcome those issues that keep people stuck inside.
I literally did this and the answers for people are depression, the sheer suppression that the US specifically does to orgs, burnout caused by school and work, Covid, and overworking. Telling people to go organize seems… well it’s good, but until we start posting resources that can help with one or all of those issues, very few people will actually do it
If I can suggest a resource for one of these problems - COVID - for people like me who can't take on the risk of (re)infection/are already too disabled by COVID to do anything in person. Basically try joining a mask bloc or similar from the directory here, the people there should understand better than most your need for protection from plague https://linktr.ee/COVIDAdvocacy
we have this conversation every week tbh but you're right
But what if I'm cringe IRL and I can't change my username and pretend I'm someone else?
This post was literally the push that got me to join an org, literally just now.
...Well, I started the process of joining an org just now - it's going to take a few days - but you get the idea.
By Jove, 2024 will be the year that I go from "Internet shitposter with good opinions" to "Proper Revolutionary". One of my resolutions for 2024 was in fact to join an org, but I've been trying to be a Stakhanovite with my one-year plans, going a bit ahead of schedule!
Careful... It's darker than your think out there. You need to be ready for real war.
Lol don't listen to them, just prepare to expect some very boring weekly/bi-weekly meetings. Attend them anyway and diligently get the work done.
Also fight the biggest communist there on the very first day, that way all the other communists will know what you're about.
Should make sure you're working out and staying fit and active. If you're going to attend protests and things, you do want to be prepared for when shit hits the fan or if someone throws a punch at you (which may or may not happen depending on where you live, still better to just be able to handle it if it does come up)
Just make sure you don't order vegan pizza with your fascist credit card (visa signature rewards)
I think it's definitely too early to prepare for that. At most one would need to prepare physically for potential skirmishes at protests and manifestations, but even those can be avoided.
It's always good to do physical exercises. At least you'll be healthier.
The hexbear marble countertop gang is encouraging people to be "normal" again.
marble countertop gang is encouraging people to be "normal" again.
I hate it.
For what it's worth, I think an org should also have other activities. That means like a bowling night or something. Or a movie night, dinner night, or going out to a bar night. And, this might ruffle some feathers, it should also be a place where you can meet someone for dating, a fling, etc. That's how most people meet each other, through a shared activity (like school, a club, church, etc.). Democrats and Republicans meet each other in shared spaces like that all the time, but for some reason it's like the ultimate taboo to talk about it in leftist circles. But why? Just cuz some peeps here and there developed sex cult personalities? How many comrades of the past met each other through the Soviet Party or the Communist Party of China or in Cuba or Vietnam? Probably millions.
it's the sex pest problem, unfortunately. a lot of the women I know in local organizing circles - including myself - have been SAed by other organizers (usually dudes). I don't personally have a problem with dating in organizing circles but I know others do.
dating within an org is only a problem when more influential members date less influential members, the representative of a local chapter probably shouldn't start dating one of their members, it creates an imbalance of power, this isn't limited to socialist orgs though, it applies to any organisational structure.
I think this, and also your org needs to be large enough that it isn't dominated by a couple of de factor power players (it's easier to police official positions with power than someone with a lot of social clout). Otherwise any drama just kinda nukes the org.
Yeah, small orgs need to have a very strict barrier for entry, to avoid wreckers and drama, but also need to avoid having a small group form the "core" of the org and decide everything through seniority. I will freely admit I'm not skilled enough at people management to organise an org from scratch like this.
the sex cult pattern isn't just a rare occurance unfortunately. it's practically inevitable in any organization which 1) asks that its members become deeply emotionally invested, 2) places emphasis on stability, unity, and not rocking the boat, and 3) concentrates real power in the hands of those few with the most time, energy, and charisma. Mainstream political parties notably give salaries to the people who keep the party actually running. This allows individual members to subsist on more than the good feelings they get from seeing their friends at meetings, as well staves off the fear that the entire organization might collapse if an abuser is challenged.
but if someone has anecdotal evidence stating otherwise i'm willing to hear it.
Unfortunately I have anecdotal evidence to support what you said and in that case the scandal basically destroyed the entire org since the leadership was involved
Yeah, it’s a huge problem just dealing with the widespread alienation we experience and the mental health problems it creates or makes worse. Trying to bridge that gap could do a massive amount of good.
Each orgs chapter has an average of like 20 active people, that's why it always devolves into a sex cult in the US
The Chilean socialist movement that brought Allende to power worked because they had Party offices in the community where members of the community could go and socialize as well as learn! There are lots of stories of people who met their first dates at the party community centers, and so the social pressure forced people to become more based to fit in.
How many comrades of the past met each other through the Soviet Party or the Communist Party of China or in Cuba or Vietnam? Probably millions.
I would not be so sure. From what I have read party members in the Indochinese/Vietnamese Communist Party explicitly described themselves as having a sibling-like relationship with each other and sleeping around in the party would cause scandal. At least one man was executed by other party members when a woman comrade reported him, though there might have been some SA behavior going on in that case. I'm pretty sure that the CPC was similar in that regard too. I also believe Trotsky had somewhat of a "reputation" within the Bolsheviks for that sort of thing, which seems to indicate it wasn't that common there either (or that could have just been made up one of his many haters).
Not saying it never happened in history but ultimately people should be there to work and it's the same problems with dating at work, and those problems multiply when you're trying to run the party as an honest to marx people's liberation army. It did seem more acceptable later when those parties transformed into government bureaucracy though.
I'm pretty sure that the CPC was similar in that regard too.
I'm pretty sure Mao met at least 2 of his wives through the Party. Reading Red Star Over China makes it seem like that wasn't unusual for early CPC leadership either.
I have a long comment history of ripping into Evangelical Christianity. Sometimes I feel like I rail against it more than anyone on this site. I have a million issues with American Christianity that still get me angry when I think about them even though I left the religion almost a decade ago.
BUT… when I think about the time I spent with various young adult church groups or Bible studies, I still have a lot of fond memories. Or even going further back to when I was a kid, my small little church had a pretty healthy social life that I do think made a positive impact in my life. Churches understand that and they’re pretty good at it. All that social stuff you mentioned really does matter. We are so alienated and disconnected from each other. To be able to offer a salve for that I think will help draw people to the org as well as help meet those social needs we all have.
"Hey you guys want to build some communism?"
"No, we like being narcissistic labor aristocrats."
"Oh, never mind."
Someone please spell it out for me: what does anyone mean by joining an org?
Figure out the communist and communist-aligned groups in your area, get on their mailing lists, turn out to do the things they ask of you sometimes. Try to make a compromise between good politics, successfully doing things in the real world, and being a larger org. Find out which orgs meet those criteria by going to their things. Once you're sure which org(s) are good, ask them how you can get more involved.
Let's get this one out of the way: what are peoples hot takes on these orgs off the top of my head?
- DSA
- Working Families Party
- Local Democrats
- CPUSA
DSA: Libs who don't really get anything done except tell you to vote for AOC (and they can't even control their elected candidates) and Biden
WFP: Completely fucked up by supporting Warren in 2020
Local Democrats: Might as well CW yourself
CPUSA: Fed central
There are a few decent DSA chapters and some good people in the org but as a whole it sucks. I learned a lot from my time in it and met some interesting people so I would say if you're trying to learn it's your best option on that list but understand that they are far from revolutionary, totally undisciplined, and questionably principled at best.
DSA captured org that's sucked a massive shit ton of leftist potential and threw it away on the Does Not Care
party. Whose elected members are absolute betrayals of the ideals they set up to do. They did not bring the ruckus to the DNC they are collaborators with the prison wardens.WFP - also
collaborators. Not very independent. Bunch of 
Local Democrats - worst
pieces of shit on the planet who have no trouble calling the 
if you call them out on their corruption and fascism. Local parties have the least amount of transparency in the country and they like to keep their gentrifying grift that way. Who do you think manipulted the 
primary votes to change for 
?CPUSA - captured
collaborators.
An org is just a group of people that do work together and have a name. It might be a political party, it might be a group focused on a specific thing that approaches it from a socialist perspective, it might just be four people trying to figure out what they want to do but they know it should be socialist.
You join one by talking to people and asking them if you can join.
What if it's a group of people that do work together but don't have a name?
That counts as organizing but I'm not sure if it's an organization unless you can name it somehow. Seems like a necessary thing to me, eventually you've gotta call it something.
Sometimes we end up doing projects and those specific projects have names but the continuous nexus behind it does not have any recognized name.
You know, finding an organization and becoming a member of it. Attending meetings. Paying dues. That sort of thing.
Joining a political organization that fights for better rights. In this context, a socialist org/party working towards building a socialist nation
An example would be joining the IWW. You pay dues, show up to meeting, talk about politics with people, and try to organize your workplace or help other people organize theirs.
A bunch of other orgs are basically like that, except instead of workplace organizing it might be electioneering or selling newspapers.
I joined the IWW and seeing the state of my branch i'm ashamed to ask anyone else to join. it's not particularly bad, it's just been dysfunctional ever since it was (re)established
SF Bay Area GMB seems to be doing a lot of good work. Honestly, most of the organizing at my branch is dual-carders working with a different union, but that's not really that bad.
our previous one blew up because it was centered around a sex pest and his friends who all worked at the same co op grocery and they decided to withhold dues lmao. the current members are with a few exceptions disaffected young people and grad students with very little experience in politics or labor organizing, myself included. i don't want to make it sound like i'm trashing my fellow workers, this is just as much my responsibility as anyone else's there. Oh also everything is done on Discord. Infuriating.
Yeah, the reliance on zoom and Discord is annoying. WISREA is a lot more on the ball in terms of tech stuff, with SSO, chat, jitsi, and hosting interwob. We could probably be doing better, but that whole RWU ordeal happened.
selling newspapers
Not really something that is going to fly these days, you'll just look like a Jehova Witness. Especially in Poland, for some reason the amount of them has skyrocketed in my city. Since we are living in the internet age, organizations should definitely learn how to use it to their benefit. Adapting to the times and all that.
That doesn't stop orgs in my area! There's even a few IWW papers, but they're more directed towards wobs and other's that already share our ideological leaning. But yeah, distributing newspapers isn't very effective.
Hmm interesting. So IWW is a union, and I can join it, and potentially get its support if my workplace decides to unionize?
I'm in education, but not an educator, and so not in a union. Its a small dept, and I doubt it'll ever unionize, the wage and benefits are probably the best in the state. I've never understood why the tech/office people in edu (in my state anyway) are always out of the union loop.
Yeah, that's the general idea. The IWW has quite a few education workers, maybe you could find some common ground there.
And yet, you read Marxist books... which can give you a paper-cut.
Curious.
Gazans have a shared living experience. I have 2 gay men who are repeatedly "adopting" their niece's mistake children and work as feds for the Canadian military as neighbours.
Sucks living here 'cause all the bourgeois freaks from Ottawa are spilling out here to get the cheaper real estate while bringing their equally awful shitlib politics. So it's them and freakish Canadian QAnoner types.
I mean wasn't Russian literacy super fucking low pre-Lenin? Many of the greatest revolutions ever done were done by illiterate people. Reading theory is good, but some people here treat it as far too important.
Those trying to build up the socialist movement early on were all heavy readers though. They need to be. Most of us live in a country where the movement is in the infantile stages
If a revolution does ever come to America, 99% of participants will have never read a single communist book, yea
Back then, it would've been, like, the one guy at the factory who knows how to read, reading things to fellow workers, right? So reading theory would've been to a large degree a social activity back then, whereas now it's often a pretty lonely activity. Even if you aren't just reading alone, but are doing a book club or something... a book club isn't quite the same when it's 12 people from around the world on Discord, compared to when it's 12 people in the room with you. And even if you're going through the effort of making the information you learn more accessible to others, making an audiobook for the consumption of countless anonymous people online isn't quite the same as reading something to someone in person; nor is translating a work and publishing it online quite the same as actually going through the effort of making a translation in paper and giving it to someone.
Basically what I'm getting at is that "theory" can and should be praxis in itself, and this is achieved by changing the ways we interact with and think of "theory". That is, sharing information can itself be a productive, creative, and social activity grounded in our immediate surroundings, that builds the networks and skills to make us good revolutionaries, rather than just giving us explanations of why the world's kinda messed up so that we can debate with internet strangers to prove who's more well-read.
Just because people were illiterate or had low literacy levels doesn't mean they didn't engage in theory though. This is also why vanguardism was so important to historical revolutions.
But you only need one comrade who can read for a classroom sized group of people (or larger) to be able to learn and discuss theory.
Part of what Mao did so successfully was to convey complex ideas in theory in very simple to understand language. In fact, he was so effective in doing this that most of his writings manage to cross a vast linguistic gap in a very nimble way.
Theory isn't the be-all and end-all, of course. But a party or the masses without theory is like a ship without a rudder.
What about disabled people?
But, yes, you should be joining an org if you can.
We should honestly have dedicated disabled socialist orgs. I've gone back and forth on this idea a few times but the thing that's hung me up on pursuing it is the fact that participation in any org no matter to what degree is very likely something the tories here would use to say you're capable of working and therefore should lose benefits.
In the U.S. you can lose disability by taking a volunteer position, or by doing volunteer work that Social Security decides is “substantial gainful activity.”
Over here it's about capability. If you're capable of attending a meeting for an org, you're capable of attending a workplace... That kind of thing.
If you made it remote they'd end up saying you should be doing remote work if you can do remote organising for an org.
This whole thing is about significantly limiting the ability for the disabled to be politically active, since they're a group with more time to dedicate to political activity and more interest in doing so above the norm. It's "behave, or else".
They'll do it while simultaneously saying everyone needs to go back to the office because remote work
doesn't let us abuse employees as muchis too difficult for the abled.
Yeah. Disabled folks can still organize. But I imagine if we were elected to leadership it could be a problem: https://advocacymonitor.com/elevate-blog-can-you-run-for-office-if-youre-on-social-security/ . So if a disabled person becomes an org's Chair of the Disability Caucus they would, in the eyes of Social Security, no longer be disabled.
There's a lady who shows up at Palestine protests here who has the palestine flag attached to her wheelchair. You do what you can. From each according to their ability and all.
Spiritually, disabled people can usually go outside/build communism. "Go outside" is really about logging off from your internet patterns and trying to have human interactions, which you can do from home in case a disability makes literally going outside uncomfortable or impossible.
Of course, with generalizations we should also understand that there will be exceptions but that naming them right away would prevent the call to action from being pithy. So if a person's disability precludes building socialism, I'm sure OP and others would understand.
Though I would say that there are many ways to build socialism, so even someone that thinks they can't might just be unaware of ways they could help out.
Tbf, I definitely do more organizing than reading. But lately I've realized I'm useless in certain groups and situations without a little more reading under my belt.
Yeah can I still join the protracted People's war without a protractor? Haven't owned one since high school.
Too true. What a cool lady