• Awoo [she/her]
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    4 years ago

    "Cringe" is just a method of marginalising people for having interests or behaviours that are outside a dictated social normal by the dominant group.

    It is a word that should be opposed by any socialist.

    • tam [he/him, any]
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      4 years ago

      “Cringe” has replaced “gay” in that way.

      • crime [she/her, any]
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        4 years ago

        Not really, not at all the same thing. I'd compare the pejorative use of "autistic" to the former pejorative use of "gay". IMO the main feature of the pejorative usage is that it is an identity trait that is intrinsic — if you are aren't a member of the group you will always be "above" it, so when you're using either as an insult it isn't a danger to you. Anyone can do cringe.

        (Im gay, autistic, and cringey)

    • gayhobbes [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      I feel like we should stop using the language of the right, personally, but that seems to be a controversial topic around these here parts.

      • Awoo [she/her]
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        4 years ago

        Depends on the language to be honest. I believe there's a strategic purpose to keeping chapo from becoming a socialist-only space in that heavy policing of the community will eliminate the ability to reopen the lib to left pipeline. However, I do think that we should be making a conscious effort with certain things, generally, like this particular word. It is leveled at a lot of trans and furry people for no reason other than an in-group deciding they want to marginalise the interests or exposure of these people because it would be bad for their "image". I absolutely can't stand that attitude to people and oppose it. It's a quick, sharp and nasty means of dominant groups in a social crowd enforcing their will on the out-group for nothing other than deeming their behaviour to be embarrassing.

        Which language in particular are you talking about? I'm up for a conversation about it, but I do think I'd oppose certain things.

        • gayhobbes [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          Oh I just mean conscientiously I avoid using language as an insult like cuck or simp or soy boy, even ironically, because the right's trying to make that shit bad. There ain't nothing wrong with being a cuck. I know there are some spaces that ban the word stupid, which is ill-considered in my opinion, but I definitely think it's bad to use their insults as our insults.

          • Awoo [she/her]
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            4 years ago

            I don't like these words either much. It's definitely something socialists should be conscious of, but also, the people in this space should be taught how strategically playing into certain things is beneficial for our ability to be a space that appeals to those groups and then radicalises them leftwards.

            I completely agree on not banning ableism too, even though I strongly dislike ableism. I don't think it's a battle that can be fought or won in society for a decade, in much the same way trans people had to wait for their time to come in order for their battle to really start raging, and over-policing is a method socialist communities are simply alienating the workers from their spaces.

            We need to not alienate the workers. We need to attract them and then radicalise them.

            • gayhobbes [he/him]
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              4 years ago

              I mean, I do think there are certain terms that are ableist that we should not use that are not just impolite. I refuse to say the r-word, for example, and the term cripple isn't great when used as a noun. In general I'm bothered by a focus on intelligence as being a driver for validity, and I think we would be good to shy away from that.

              I prefer education over banning it. But honestly I don't think workers are as bad about this as so-called educated leftists tend to be. My brother was more successful convincing his steel mill coworkers to not call gay guys the f-word than I have been telling straight cis leftists to stop saying the r-word, honestly.

                • jack [he/him, comrade/them]
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                  4 years ago

                  In real life maybe but there were so many struggle sessions on the subreddit where telling people not to use it was the entire reason the left is losing

                • gayhobbes [he/him]
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                  4 years ago

                  There's been an edgy resurgence of it, and I don't know why. It did fade for a time, but it's come back. It feels to me like sort of a culture war thing.

              • Awoo [she/her]
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                4 years ago

                Yeah I call people out on r-word too, but while I actively try to police myself on things like "dumb" and "stupid" (badly, I'm not perfect) I see it as a battle that will alienate when we need to be throwing our doors open.

                It's definitely a battle that needs to be fought, but certain spaces like this one should be intentionally aiming for a zone that still attracts the imperfect. The spaces that are socialist-only that do police these words will bring people towards being anti-ableist as they move through the pipeline.

                My brother was more successful convincing his steel mill coworkers to not call gay guys the f-word than I have been telling straight cis leftists to stop saying the r-word, honestly.

                I think this is a case of having the right kind of person speaking in the right kind of ways to reach this kind of group of people. You need people that walk the walk in those crowds in order to reach them, when you have that it's incredibly easy to get the message through.

          • Mardoniush [she/her]
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            4 years ago

            We really do need a word for someone who seems to be a congenital awful idea generator (Regardless of intelligence or learning disability), and Stupid despite its unfortunate past seems to work for that until a better one comes up that doesn't sound like a Shakspearean insult.

            • gayhobbes [he/him]
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              4 years ago

              I agree, but my goal is to find a word or phrase to identify why their ideas suck without it being based on their intelligence or cognitive abilities. Often selfish or shitty is what I go to, but it doesn't encapsulate things well.

            • steely_its_a_dildo [any]
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              4 years ago

              why not use the more verbose version? it's kinda funny and more descriptive than stupid.

              • Mardoniush [she/her]
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                4 years ago

                Cause the point is to hurt the Chud, and the Chud's not read The Illiad. I need something that's sharp and immediate. Shithead is ok, but not quite insulting enough.

          • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
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            4 years ago

            Do real life people actually use the Chad/simp/soyboy lingo outside of reddit or 4chan? Because if so I think I might have just lost even more faith in humanity. As an atheist, Jesus please take the wheel!

              • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
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                4 years ago

                I mean I got out of highschool 2 years ago now and the big ones were "triggered", "cringe" and shit like that back then

            • gayhobbes [he/him]
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              4 years ago

              I feel like I don't need to tell you this, but don't watch Paul Joseph Watson.

              • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
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                4 years ago

                Australia’s leader of the opposition called the PM a simp earlier this week.

                Scotty from marketing being called a simp? Seriously? :che-smile: :che-smile: :che-smile:

                Wtf has the world come to, the only thing Elon is right about is that we do live in a simulation

                  • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
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                    4 years ago

                    In South Africa parties try use local internet lingo to try appeal to the youth. The worst example has to be when the so called "left wing" party (they're really not, that's another story) tried to explain Marxist theory though WhatsApp lingo like "blue ticks" (WhatsApp puts 2 blue ticks next to a message that has been read) and shit. Real condescending hours there

      • ComradeMikey [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        cringe is not right wing it’s totally neutral. everyone online uses cringe

        • gayhobbes [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          Nothing is totally neutral. Everything originated somewhere, and cringe is based on shame and bullying.

          • ComradeMikey [he/him]
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            4 years ago

            people wonder why leftists cant get traction. we make everything an extreme politcal opinion. how tf can we radicalize people when we are so far removed from them. calling cringe a psuedo fascist word is not good in building rapport and only alienates

            • gayhobbes [he/him]
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              4 years ago

              Am I talking to a bunch of mill workers here? I thought we were having a discussion, bro.

              • ComradeMikey [he/him]
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                4 years ago

                Ima be honest i came across as kind of a dick. I think im just annoyed about an overall trend of the left being super exclusive and making innocuous things “cancellable” or problematic in a way that can alienate libs/apolitical who are potential radicals.

                • gayhobbes [he/him]
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                  4 years ago

                  I get that. I do think it's valuable on the left to think about our language, because it is often indicative of toxic mindsets we've inherited. That's not a conversation I'd have with someone as they're becoming more comfortable with leftism overall.

                  • ComradeMikey [he/him]
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                    4 years ago

                    I can totally get behind that actually. as long as we allow for misteps for those who are learning in good faith i think thats totally reasonable

    • Superduperthx [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      I think it depends on context and type of cringe. Contemptuous cringe vs empathetic cringe makes all the difference in the world; though I will agree that most "cringe" labeled as such on the internet is definitely contemptuous.