Redditors react to a video of a bike ride around Pyongyang
Video: the most normal city ever filmed
Redditors: So spooky! Everything looks... wrong! This guy is taking his life in his hands to film this!
Also Redditors: Looks too normal, this has to be staged, they're actors and this is a propaganda channel!
Side note: my tolerance for western bullshit on the DPRK has reached the negatives, five seconds in these comments and you can cook an egg with my blood. Salute to the small handful of brave comrades pushing back on propaganda in the replies
Redditors: So spooky! Everything looks... wrong!
Advertising has corrupted the westoid brain. They long for the ads.
I thought this was your color but there's actually a thread now complaining about the lack of advertising.
Jesus Juche Christ, the rot is terminal and my despair is all-consuming
Kinds risky to record video there. Also was the camera hidden within a bag (or something), In front of the bike?
How can these people be so ignorant, this guy literally has a YouTube channel with tons of videos of him just carrying a camera into shops and chatting with the workers and going about his business, no one cares or even bats an eye.
Yeah he has hundreds of videos, even ones where government workers commented on his camera and did a little smile and wave
Honestly I feel like the reason why so many tourists are told off about their cameras is because the tourists are rude, chauvinistic, and act like they're at a zoo. Then the chauvinists back home claim that it's an authoritarian nightmare when people ask you to stop being an asshole
Usually the complaint comes from western tourists or western viewers of other western tourists lol. North Korea seems to allow non-western tourists and students/employees more flexibility to go wherever.
Plus the western tourists literally sign up for GUIDED tours and get mad they can’t travel to some military base or someone’s workplace lol. Maybe be more trustworthy or have a government that lets you travel to North Korea if you don’t want someone showing you nationalist views and having a strict schedule and area restrictions like every other guided tour
The savage northern Koreans don't have internet though so his youtube channel is safely hidden from their evil eyes.
He's controlled propaganda, just like this video which was obviously staged
North Korea literally stages things for this person's YouTube channel
And even if they don't, it looks wrong and evil
why is it so hard to have nuanced views on this sorta thing? NK is an authoritarian hellscape, that doesn't mean every building is a fake facade, doesn't mean people are getting tortured in the streets, and it can even mean some (even if very very few) NK may have higher quality of life than people in western countries.
it's important to remember that you're not immune to propaganda. and for those on the other side, just because something is propaganda doesn't mean it's not partially true.
How do redditors manage to survive with so little self awareness? It's astounding.
I was expecting the "it's all fake" cliche but I guess they've been priming the people for this response for a while now. Expect to hear a lot more of this "Ok fine, they have a higher standard living than us, but they're an EVIL AUTHORITARIAN DICTATORSHIP so they're automatically worse." thing for all of the west's enemies going forward, China especially.
Pretty much the more cameras the DPRK gets and the more people who decide to upload footage to the internet the more common this take is going to get. Everyone wants to read the tea leaves of oppression in videos of people walking to and from work or the library or whatever, everyone wants to believe that the things they've been taught their whole lives are correct in spite of the evidence before their very eyes.
Yep. I think we may have talked about this before, how in the western worldview, these liberals who "see the truth" are brave heroes standing against an oppressive regime. On the other hand, if they admit they've been lied to about this country their entire lives, it would make them the bad guys according to their simplistic black and white worldview, so they have a lot of pain and suffering to go through if admit they are wrong, and get to stroke their ego if they deny reality. So almost everyone chooses the latter.
The line on China is usually that while Shanghai/Beijing/Shenzhen might be shiny, 99% of the population outside are either factory slaves or hunter-gatherers.
FYI most people who fall hook line and sinker for propaganda subconsciously (or heck, sometimes consciously) know it's bullshit, but they pretend to believe it to keep a narrative going that benefits them. Westoids subconsciously (or heck, consciously) know their tasty treats come from US hegemony, and they know spreading bullshit about how awful the rest of the world is helps keep that hegemony intact, so they pretend to believe lies to keep the nuggies coming in.
know it's bullshit, but they pretend to believe it to keep a narrative going that benefits them.
It doesn't seem that way to me. I know people who think the PRC is a hellscape where people are starving and disappears people and harvests their organs for thinking the wrong thing. They also think they make you write essays about how you feel about Xi's speech at work everytime Xi makes a speech.
None of them actually truly believed that shit though. They just wanna to demonize a spooky oriental race to make themselves feel superior and powerful so they can justify domination the world for Big Macs. These aren't good people, they're narcissistic psychos and there's no hope for a single one of them.
This is a Redditor coming dangerously close to rationalizing how America can be exactly as it is now while being an authoritarian hellscape but their brain has built in thought-terminating cliches to protect their psyche and avert it at the last moment.
sees regular ass people walking around a regular ass city running their errands or whatever: "omg its so weird"
They need to be normal like us in america, my neighbor who's 72 and retired stands outside and watches his car in the driveway for 6 hours to make sure it doesn't get scratched. North Koreans are weird.
wtf are they doing, they should be driving 7 foot tall trucks with a vision cone that only extends upward
Reading those comments is a good reminder of the absolute necessity of prisons. Half those comments are like, "he's taking his life into his own hands!!! He's WALKING AROUND in a country!!!"
They’re terrified that he’s not driving a truck thats 20x his height in Pyongyang
not a bike lane in sight. I now recognize my mistakes and condemn this Stalinist revisionist authoritarian autocratic regime
Has actual sidewalks for people, a technology my hometown in the USA has yet to adopt.
It looks like a video game that skimped on the world development budget.
"north kora is like a vibeo gauym!!!!!!! elon musk should buy the IP and finish the develpmint!!!!!"
Jesus christ these people have no idea that they're more propogandized than North Koreans.
there's no trash because they don't have enough economy so there's no packaging to litter with
north Korea has an economy and produces things
oh yea most glorious powerful economy in the whole world most powerful DPRK
Like so the liberals realize they're just quoting state department propoganda in shitty racist broken speech or do they really say that then pat themselves on the back for being rational and intelligent
there's no trash because they don't have enough economy so there's no packaging to litter with
its fucking hilarious to me that libs will find a way to complain about a lack of single use plastics lmao. those poor north koreans don't even have to right to kill sea turtles wtf
America is the country where if you don't have way too much food on your store shelves then people will not shop at your grocery store. Try to reintroduce wrapping food in paper sourced from well-managed forestries and they'll think it's a hippie gimmick and compensate by rolling coal in the parking lot.
America is the country where if you don't have way too much food on your store shelves then people will not shop at your grocery store.
Which is a real observable behavior you see in americans, in part because (for example) if there's only a couple tomatoes left in a case that holds 30+ it's become a sorta cultural natural reaction to think that there must be something wrong with them regardless of their actual condition. Which considering how often scam artists were and still are a thing here in the states and the general distrust of government institutions, it's not surprising one bit why you see this behavior happen frequently here.
Edit: I'm not sure why exactly this behavior exists, but that's what makes the most sense to me. And that i know my grandmother has this ingrained in her and she was born in the 50s, but that doesn't quite make sense as she was influenced by the waste nothing attitude from her parents who grew up in the great depression.
It's related to a common bit of culture shock that occurred whenever Soviets visited America. In the USSR grocery stores would stock goods according to the population of an area, and put out about as much product as they expected to sell that day, leading to far less waste but also making them vulnerable to supply shocks and teaching everybody that if you wanted the best cut of meat you had to plan to be there when it was delivered. People with that mentality seeing overstocked US shelves for the first time naturally thought it was wild, including government higher ups who had access to private grocery stores as a privilege of their rank in the party.
This is often spun in Western media as an exclusively communist thing, an indicator of how everything in the soviet world was scarce and rationed, but it's a bit of culture shock that people from just about every non-Western country has when encountering Western excess for the first time - hell, even in modern day Europe the grocery stores are a lot more modest than American ones, simply because their culture hasn't embraced the excess to the same degrees as ours has.
I'm sure it's ingrained in me too just as much as everyone else, even though I think the more rational way to run a grocery store is the one that reduces waste while still ensuring ample access to food (insert FBI study on American vs Soviet calories and nutrition here). tldr
Dear god, no borger in that clip, not even borger wrappers thrown all over the street
Don't you tankies understand? No borger means no food
It's okay, the DPRK actually does have borgir, and they even come with wrappers!
I love how, even though they sell fast food borgers in paper wrappers, they also have small glass and porcelain bowls on the table with what looks like different types of Korean vegetables.
In North Korea you can only eat burger if you eat your vegetables first
I always like the Koryo Burger, which is like the DPRK doing a bit about airline food.
I love the inherent white chauvinism of Redditors out here believing that the entire country exists to do a little song and dance for every white person who comes by. If you asked a Redditor what makes more sense, that a shopkeeper in Pyongyang is actually just a shopkeeper, or is actually some unpaid slave from a factory who's been forced at gunpoint to act like a shopkeeper, they'll always choose the latter
This entire perception has to come from how western journalists are treated there. Yeah, no shit western journalists are given a dog and pony show because they're not trusted. The DPRK knows western journalists only to there to make the place look bad, so why even let them interact with normal society?
Imagine you’re trying to have a normal day and a white dude comes in like,
the place where they drown dissidents?
And you’ve gotta be like, “sir this is a water park”
How is he not worried that he'll be stopped by the police and forced to pull a train??
I mean could use a little more colour imo but defending themselves from imperial powers comes first over aesthetic building facades.
also no gridlock, exhaust fumes, etc this looks very calm and confirms the notion that cities can actually be somewhat peaceful, it's just cars that ruin it.
Looks like an overcast winter day where all the trees have no leaves. Picture looks a bit desaturated as well.
The city seems reasonably colorful when you look up and see the skyline.
ShowHonestly it just looks like a city in northern Japan. Go figure, a city in northern east Asia looks like a city in northern east Asia.
I could probably take footage from a random suburb in Sapporo, tell redditors it's the DPRK and they'd come up with all sorts of nightmarish stories of oppression lurking beneath the seemingly normal place
The only thing I saw wrong with this is that they could get away with narrowing the streets a bit
If it's wintry for a good part of the year, keeping the buildings further apart would allow for more sunlight to hit the ground.
Idk if you look at the skyline it looks like candy land. I think they were just having cold weather
To be fair their most recent buildings do have more color and also a lot more trees, although it tends to be only a single color. I wish I could link the images but I don't remember the name of the twitter page that posted it.
I am reposting (and expanded on) my comment from another thread because I see so much misinformation about North Korea.
I think people have seriously underestimated North Korea.
Let me remind you that in the 1960s, North Korea and Japan were the two Asian economies that mattered! North Korean GDP per capita in the 1960s was higher than the GDP per capita of China and South Korea.
When Japan colonized Korea, they divided the country into the North and the South regions, with the North prioritized on industrialization (concentrated mostly in North Hamgyong, South Hamgyong and Pyongyang) while the South focused on agriculture. After Japan surrendered, the Chinese Civil War ensued. Mao was so adamant about capturing the Northeast province of China (Manchuria), where the Japanese heavy industries were situated, that he was willing to give up all the bases across China just to get to the Northeast. After the Chinese communists controlled the Northeast, much of their industrial and mechanized supplies came from the industrial base of North Korea.
North Korea in the 1960s to the 1980s was a confident, industrialized nation. South Korea did not overtake the North until after the mid-1970s.
The post-Korean War rebound after being bombed by the Americans was real. East German media in the 1960s called North Korea an “economic miracle of the Far East” and compared favorably with post-war Japan’s reconstruction.
By the late 1960s, North Korean rural villages were fully electrified.
(Let me give you some perspective here: the per capita electric consumption in the 1960s was 5 times that of China’s! The first Chinese province to be fully electrified was Shandong province in 1996, and nationwide electrification was only achieved in 2015 - the last province being Qingdao)
By the late 1970s, North Korea achieved food self-sufficency, and realized free education and healthcare for all its people.
By the late 1980s, 70% of North Korean agriculture was fully mechanized.
In the 70s, North Korea produced 6 million ton of grain annually. By 1984, it broke a record of 10 million ton of grain production! In case this was not clear, they almost doubled their food production in just over a decade!
The North Koreans built the Nampo Dam (West Sea Barrage) in just 5 years, from 1981 to 1986, with a cost of $4 BILLION dollars. An impressive feat of engineering, and they were so confident and proud of themselves that they proclaimed the West Sea Barrage as the “8th Wonder of the World”.
The West Sea Barrage was built was to prevent the intrusion of seawater caused by the tidal floods of the Yellow Sea into the Taedong river. The salinity of the water supply has always caused issues for irrigation of the farmlands, and a dam that blocks the intrusion of seawater was critical to supply fresh water for their farming activities (the Nampo Dam itself is a reservoir that stores up to several billion cubic meters of fresh water).
Why is this important? And where did it all go wrong?
Well, we have to understand the problem with the Korean peninsula. The North in particularly is cursed with mountainous regions, with only less than 25% of its land flat enough and suitable for large scale agriculture.
Fun fact: Pyongyang (平壤) literally means “flat land”. Imagine a country with such mountainous terrain that they named that one place “the flat land”.
Food self-sufficiency is an inherent problem for North Korea. This is a problem for the South as well, but to a lesser extent, and they chose to industrialize and use their export earnings to import food. For the North Koreans, they chose to tackle this critical issue head on. As such, as the DPRK achieved their industrialization goals of the Chollima Movement (the “thousand-li horse movement”) by the 1960s, they began to turn to resolve their food insecurity problem.
With so little area for agriculture, the North Koreans began to clear the forests of the mountainous areas to implement terrace farming. This large scale deforestation would lead to severe consequences later as the soil erosion from such steep angled terrains (really cursed place) resulted in the loss of fertile soil and serious degradation of agricultural output decades later.
At the same time, owing to their industrial base and with the support from the USSR and PRC (the DPRK maintained a fine balance in its relationship with both countries after the Sino-Soviet split), they began to implement mechanization of their agricultural economy. Farming output shot through the roof, reaching 10 million ton of grain production by 1984.
However, there are severe issues that accompanied such rapid development. Apart from the deforestation of the steep terrain that caused ecological issues and loss of fertile soil, North Korea itself does not have energy self-sufficiency. Its farming activities were highly mechanized, which means that it needs to consume a huge quantity of fossil fuel to sustain the agricultural production. North Korean economy thus became over-dependent on fossil fuel, which it doesn’t produce itself. (They did have coal mining but you can’t use them to power mechanized equipments.) This was not a problem when the USSR was able to provide ample supply of cheap oil to the DPRK, however as the USSR became entangled in the war in Afghanistan and the Middle East in the 1980s, its dwindling economy could no longer support the North Korean economy as it used to.
Following the collapse of the USSR in the 1990s, fuel export to North Korea plummeted, and the North Koreans soon found themselves in a crisis of energy shortage. Trade plummeted from 53% with the USSR to merely 3% with Russia in 1995. By that time, food production had already substantially fallen and the DPRK fell back to food insecurity once again, and never recovered from that. Food and energy crisis both at once is the bane of any industrialized society.
Famine ensued in the 1990s (the March of Suffering). The series of floods in 1995 was particularly bad, exacerbated by the deforestation decades earlier, and caused much destruction to their arable lands, mining industries, and various economic infrastructures. The UN estimated the cost of destruction to be at $15 billion.
There have always been questions and debates about whether the DPRK had over-invested in their agricultural policy. The West Sea Barrage was a huge undertaking and financial investment, costing $4 billion dollars. You can clearly tell that their motives were obviously heavily influenced by the socialist mentality of “man will overcome nature”, but perhaps sometimes the conditions simply weren’t there, especially in such a cursed place as the Korean peninsula. South Korea avoided this problem by largely focusing on the manufacturing sector and turned to importing food instead (agriculture comprised only 2% of South Korea’s GDP, but it never went below 20% for North Korea). I don’t have a good answer but it is certainly an interesting part of history that should be examined deeper.
How did you learn all of this if I may ask? Do you have any recommendations on literature or learning resources that aren't just anti-DPRK propaganda?
I remember coming across some Chinese article years ago talking about the North Korean economy and actually went back and dug up more information about it.
In other words, it’s easier if you know Chinese, but even then not all information is accurate and some are quite sensational.
Gimme l'article... gimmeeeeeee... (Idc if it's Putonghua)
Here’s a couple to start:
http://pdf.dfcfw.com/pdf/H3_AP201810081209197493_1.PDF (Macro research on the DPRK economy from a Chinese investment firm)
https://www.essra.org.cn/view-1000-3081.aspx (Research into the DPRK economic structure and development)