Afaik, no one's ever done an actual quantitative analysis, but if the US was barred from exploiting the global south tomorrow the standard of living for all US Americans (other than the rich) would plummet. It wouldn't even be a recession, more like all of capitalism just seizing up. iPhones now cost like $5k and no one could afford them anyway. I think it would be orders of magnitude worse than what the Russians had to deal with in the 90s with their "shock therapy". It's truly astounding how dependent we are on exploiting labor and resources in the global south. Like... damn near everything we own was made by people making shit wages and living in conditions that would make US Americans cry after living in them for a few hours.
It pisses me off so much that 99% of US Americans think their lifestyle of cheap, plentiful treats is the ultimate evidence that capitalism works. They say "look how much stuff we have" and compare it to what folks in AES states had. They never think about there are like 100+ countries out there that are every bit as capitalistic as the USA. And yet they are living in crushing poverty. Why is the US a symbol of the success of capitalism but poor countries don't reflect it's weaknesses?
The standard of living that most people in the US enjoy is more thanks to the exploitation of the workers and resources of the global south than it is to some inherent positive quality of capitalism. Take that away and US Americans would have a very different life from what they have come to expect. For the working class in the US, without all that exploitation I don't see how our lives would be materially different from workers in the global south.
And I haven't even gotten into how much of our lifestyle is driven by environmental exploitation! US Americans consume resources at something like 5X what is considered a sustainable rate. Force us to live sustainably and that would be another huge blow to treatflow and the "success" of capitalis.
This is a huge reason why it's so difficult to develop any sort of class consciousness among Americans too. Even among the more clever people I talk to, there's a line that Marxism is outdated because economies no longer operate on farm and factory labor. These people say this while wearing sweatshop shoes and eating strawberries picked in Honduras for $1 per day. Production seems invisible or a thing of the past. I can't even begin explaining to my fellow Americans how capitalism functions without getting into how much we hollow out other countries. We live on their suffering as a kind of pillow to keep us from revolting. Now that capitalism is begining to seize up, there's some resentment building, but it's going to take a lot of international solidarity for Americans to give a shit.
Without communist orgs reorganizing communities and teaching basic theory, Americans will fall to some form of neofascism. Our relationships to the life-sustaining means of production are so distant and the ones we are close to have been invented largely to stop us from even recognizing them for what they are. Uber automates the socialization those means in order to obscure the fact that they still dictate what those relations are. It doesn’t matter if you own your car instead of Uber because it doesn’t matter if you specifically work for Uber, but in aggregate they still retain full dictatorial power over their workers. They’ve basically bypassed a lot of the legally-induced costs of turnover and allow their labor to remain plentiful through pooling. Their servers handle the logistics of that pooling and therefore allow them to retain control.
Who the hell is getting treats these days besides the rich? Everyone around me is living in abject poverty, a single hardship away from Hooverville.
I'd wager the floor is much, much lower than you think it is, and the worst off among us here are not faring much better than the folks in the global south, even with the magnitude of hyperexploitation. We aren't getting our basic needs met, plain and simple.
This isn't even to mention the nearly invisible, at least to the average American, slave economy that comprises the largest prison system in human history, mostly exploiting black Americans.
I realize that in some ways my experience is marginal, and there are yuppie fucks who actually are hoarding grain while I get sick from eating only noodles and beans and bean-noodles, or if I'm really lucky paying taco bell for, you guessed it, beans, and that other ways I'm privileged, such as not being in prison, but it really does seem like my experience is more normal than it should be, looking around.
All of this isn't to minimize the hyperexploitation of the global South by American capital, but rather to say that for the average working class American, things wouldn't change all that much if that stopped since nearly all of that surplus labor is going to the rich. It isn't trickling down. and never has, and it surely doesn't provide an excuse to continue the exploitation of the global south.
No. I've been puking noodles for 5 hours, I'm out of cat food, I have COVID that isn't going away, my housemate on disability can't pay rent, and I'm pissed
I don't have time for you. Enjoy your b& bootlicker.
When our turn comes, we won't make excuses.
It doesn't take much to see what an America without global south exploitation would look like. It's already here in Native reservations and redlined neighborhoods.
There's a reason why American racism, even through the lens of whiteness, is the easiest issue to radicalize someone on. The more one looks on the subject, the more they stop seeing glimmers of light through the gaps of their understanding.
It doesn’t take much to see what an America without global south exploitation would look like. It’s already here in Native reservations and redlined neighborhoods.
I was going to point out that this isn't exactly correct since these are places that are "exploited" rather than simply "not benefiting from exploitation because there is no exploitative relationship", but of course that's exactly your point. Because of course, the US absolutely will start exploiting itself in the same or similar way.
I would like to think that there could be a society on the North American continent that has no exploitative relationship with other parts, but of course that will not happen as long as the USA exists.
I grew up in a redlined neighborhood. Anyone who thinks all Americans live on treats hasn’t experienced the systems of poverty and racism in this country.
GDP per capita for the entire globe was USD 17,110 in 2020. That is roughly the same as that of China or North Macedonia.
I know that GDP is a problematic measure and that a lot of it possibly is financial bullshit but I'm convinced that numbers like this shows that the world is producing enough to provide everyone with a safe and comfortable although modest lifestyle.
People in China or North Macedonia are not living in abject poverty. They are not as rich as the suburbanites of Burgerland but most have their basic needs covered and surplus for luxuries. It would not be bad if the entire world got to live like that. However, a socialist world would mean significantly better conditions than those for most people as the wealth that is currently hoarded by the bourgeoisie would be used to the benefit of all. It is also likely that the abolition of poverty would free up creative and productive energy that is shackled by want today, increasing the amount of wealth available.
A socialist world would be an immensely materially richer world for the majority of people than the one we currently inhabit.
They are not as rich as the suburbanites of Burgerland but most have their basic needs covered and surplus for luxuries. I
Let's break down the chinese middle class:
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Indoor plumbing and heating, but AC still remains room by room for most people if they have it at all.
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Car ownership is insanely expensive, just from the licensing and fees alone. Most people can only afford to drive a compact if at all
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Fast casual dining out that's a staple of US food spend doesn't exist, its street food or noodle stands for most people with nice restaurants being something reserved for special occasions.
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Consumer electronics is a given considering how much the country manufactures, but high end gaming PCs and luxury computing devices still remain off limits for most people. The most popular games aren't Crysis or the latest EA tech demo but far older titles.
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Single family homes are rare and mostly in the domain of the extremely well off or people in rural areas.
Just in terms of sheer material consumption nobody dwarfs Americans. The top 10% of chinese incomes have a much lower carbon footprint than the bottom 10% of americans.
Everything you just described was a normal middle class life in the United States/Europe in like 2001, other than the car and single family home ownership for Americans (and to be fair to China, the vast majority live in apartments, but they own them without a mortgage), but in 2022 we have the internet and numerous entertainment options plus the wonders of modern medicine (which has made strides, it isn't all wasted Cadillac treatments). Was the average person in say Italy or East Germany in 2001 that deprived? Fuck no, $20k PPP per capita GDP is plenty to live a decent life.
lol 87% of US households have AC, 75% of them central AC units. and prepandemic 60% of US food spend was on restaurants!
Good job reading where I said "20 or 30 years ago". Central AC was not that common back then.
I know you're not necessarily disagreeing with SoyViking, but everything you described seems perfectly compatible with:
a safe and comfortable although modest lifestyle
Assuming that we have as good of public transportation as China, then car ownership is not relevant.
the street food and noodle stands are like 10000x better than the fast food shit you get here.
That doesn't sound too bad. I basically live like this already and the only thing that makes it suck is being surrounded by people who are visibly better off and living in a culture that looks down on those who can't live up to the standards of consumption.
For lots of people living like this would be an utopian dream.
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Daily reminder that rich countries drained 152 trillion dollars from the Global South since 1960.
I often wonder about if communism happened tomorrow in the USA and we stopped exploiting the global south, how much would have to be built from the ground up here in the states versus how much can already be used.
My guess is a lot of our developments from the 20th century are long gone and the things that were built on top of them are now supported entirely by the global south. No putting stilts under that shit either
So many of them buy into a secular Calvinism of sorts and don't really think about why they are worthy of the treats while those that are exploited and brutalized in the "third world" somehow deserve it.
American Civil Religion and the associated brainworms are super intense
Bioshock Infinite could have explored that in a meaningful way. But then "both sides" :brainworms:
That makes you just as bad and wrong as the Pinkertons, actually. :galaxy-brain:
I'm perfectly fine with acknowledging that to some degree workers in the first world do benefit from the table scraps of imperialism, but the bourgeoisie of the 3rd world has a genuine seat at the table. That's the major difference.
The proletariat in America has more in common with the proletariat in the poor countries than either has in common with the bourgeoisie of their own country. This is what being a true socialist internationalist means. The argument that American workers benefit from imperialism and therefore they are inherently opposed to anti-imperialism only suggests it's in their interests to be pro imperialism and nationalism, which does no one any favors.
The argument that American workers benefit from imperialism and therefore they are inherently opposed to anti-imperialism only suggests it’s in their interests to be pro imperialism and nationalism, which does no one any favors.
Couldn't have said it better myself, I recognize I'm getting screwed by wealthy parasites but what is disturbing is that when you take most of the world into account, I'm one of the lucky ones. It will obviously be something that elites will try to use in order to get working class Americans to defend them: "If you're mad at me, then those yucky brown people, and especially brown people from countries I can't name on a map have a right to be angry at you!"
Well, maybe not. The usa where we learned to be self suffericent and not exploit the global south is a batter world.
We would have kept the post war unions strong without globalization to threaten labor power
If we colapse back to that state it will hurt, real bad. But then it would look something like we were doing internal dengist market reforms.
We would have all the corn pork and soybeans we could want. If we switched to hemp or bamboo fibers we would be fine for textiles as well. Since, I think our cotten is mostly industrial right? I can't recall that much.
Overall we would live in a nicer country that sat in a nicer world.
The usa where we learned to be self suffericent and not exploit the global south
the usa has always been about exploitation,
I am once again telling everyone to read Settlers and I’m saying this as a fucking Anarchist.
Just like the collapse of the US won't be a singular, cathartic event, the end of the exploitation of the global south probably won't happen all at once either. The Flow of Treats will slow and become less consistent, but it probably won't completely end for decades at least.
As the Empire wanes and different areas become more financially independent, or at least less fearful of the US and Europe, they'll be able to demand better deals at a a national level. Hopefully, this will translate to better wages and conditions for workers at the local level.
with the giant debt, insane trade deficit, the devaluing dollar, and de-industrialized economy, consuming less or plundering more seem to be the only two options left. i don't think there will ever be a popular will to actually consume less, so the choice has always already been made. let's not forget that the "defense" industry is hugely profitable, unlike many others, so even if there's nothing to plunder somewhere a war is still a net gain on the balance books.
I agree that there is much more popular support for war than reducing consumption, but if the US is able to successfully ignite a war somewhere, they probably aren't going to have EU support (maybe in Venezuela idk) and would most likely get its ass handed to it (while still ending and wrecking a couple million lives along the way) which will end that support really quick. If things go this direction Americans will definitely continue to live in denial and idk what the path forward will be at that point.
Thank you for pointing this out. A lot of the western left are pampered as to the conditions of most of the global proletariat.
Consider how upset nerds in America get when their GPUs got a 25% tariff and huge scalping that results in $800 cards now retailing for $2000 or more.
Now consider that kind of unequal exchange is the norm for most of the world, not the exception. The vast majority of the global population cannot afford computer components.
The top 10% of chinese incomes have a vastly smaller footprint than the bottom 10% of American incomes. And that's the carbon floor for the US. Imagine how much the top 10% uses.
top 10% of chinese incomes have a vastly smaller footprint than the bottom 10% of American income
Damn. Would love a source if it’s at hand (no worries if not)
Personally, I think if we just stopped making new things, we would be fine. I mean to say our overproduction has created more than enough for everyone, but we don't get it to people. Everyone could have their stupid treats if we just mobilized ourselves to get them to everyone (the system wouldn't want that of course, but you know what I mean). We don't need much “new stuff” we have plenty of stuff that just needs to be distributed properly. We have more than enough gadgets, gizmos, widgets, and also sorts of treats but the stupidity of the "the market™" doesn't allow everyone to get their stupid-ass treat.
On the real if we stopped production of like 98% of all things aside from food, power, and other basics we would still have plenty of treats to go around. We really don't need much new anything right now, we got plenty of just about everything for everyone these days. If we stopped overproduction I think it would give everyone else on the planet (and Earth itself) a much-needed breather. We have a problem with overproduction and underdistributing. So much of the America economy is make-believe that actively harms the Global South, which is the wild part to me. We cause so much anguish and poverty over what is for the most part things that aren't even real.
If we stopped exploiting the global south (which we should do for both moral and political reasons) they would have a chance to grow for themselves and make their own economic choices. We could get off their back, and they could stand up straight. We really don't need much new stuff, we just need the stuff we do have to go to the correct places and people, especially the underserved and overexploited.
Don't get me wrong, Americans need to learn to want less and demand significantly fewer treats, but as it is we don't need to make another new treat. We have more treats than people and of course it's not distributed equally/fairly.
It's that funny comic from last month with the goose going "What's your [economy] made of, fucker?"
